A Few Thoughts about the Redskins Game, in no particular order

[Virgil]

Another week, another game the Bills are looking for a statement win against an inferior team.  You could tell the Bills were trying something different on offense, which was something many here have been clamoring for.  Like most Sunday's around 5pm, it was a mixed result bag.  I'm going to apologize now because, while we won and I'm very happy to be 6-2, half of these points are going to be pretty negative.  I'm appreciating our win, but there are things we need to fix heading into the second half or else teams with more than 2 wins are going to give us bigger fits later on.

 

1 - Oliver - I'm going to get this out of the way now.  I wasn't a fan of drafting the kid, so I have some bias here.  I wanted them to trade up and take Hock or the other Allen.  I may still end up wrong, but today was not a great day for Oliver.  I look forward to seeing what his final snap count was today, but he was missing on many key passing downs.  Moreso, on the one drive where Peterson really gashed us, that was the only drive I saw where he was in there for highest percentage of snaps.  On one play in particular, I watched Oliver not only get beat by a single offense lineman, I saw him get pushed backwards off his feet by more than a few yards.  I saw zero impact from our #9 overall pick today.  The fact that he wasn't in the game on multiple 3rd and long plays also makes me wonder if the coaches are seeing something too.

 

2 - Rush Defense - Again, I'm a fan on this board like many of you.  I can only write and interpret what I see based upon my limited NFL knowledge as a fan.  From what I can see, our linebackers are attacking the line way too quickly on rushing plays and aren't waiting to see where the play is developing towards.  This makes me think our issue stopping the run is more of a coaching issue than players.  We've all seen Milano and Edmunds blow up rushing plays, so I don't think they magically forget what they are doing.  On the majority of the big rushes, the linebackers are at the line of scrimmage, getting consumed by blocks before Peterson gets there.  That allows him to see where the gaps will be and hit them.  We are hitting the line so quickly that we aren't creating a second level, so once he gets past the line, he's free for 10+ yards.  My analysis could be wrong, but I think this is what McD is talking about when referring to technique issues.  They defensive line aren't taking up their gaps allowing our LB's to get swallowed up in blocks.  Either way, it's not 3 weeks in a row and doesn't seem to be getting any better.  We were lucky that the Redskins switched up what was working for them with toss plays. 

 

3 - Daboll - Every season I seem to have a public enemy number one.  While Oliver is up there on my list considering his draft status, he gets the pass being a rookie.  I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is.  Allen is more comfortable, and we rush better, out of the shotgun.  Our jet sweep plays come from that, which creates mis-direction, and again, gives Allen another option.  Today, when we moved right down field in the first half consistently, we did it mainly out of that core formation.  Then we get to 1st and goal from the 2.  Daboll, in all his infinite wisdom, tries to cute plays and we end up 3rd and long; eventually settling for a field goal.  Then, we have multiple short yardage plays where we prove time and time again that we can't execute.  While I do appreciate giving Motor the start today and getting him way more involved in the offense, we also took Beasley and Brown completely out of the offense.  And this brings me to my overall issue with Daboll.  The man doesn't seem capable of doing more than one thing at a time.  We are either a passing team or a rushing team.  He can't keep it going and then, when things are looking good, he out thinks himself and sets the entire offense back, destroying any rhythm they have.  I'm sorry, but Daboll hasn't performed in any job he's had and I'm not seeing the issues with the players for once.

 

4 - "I don't know what to say, really.  Three minutes to the biggest battle of our professional lives all comes down to today.  Either we heal as a team, or we are going to crumble.  Inch by inch.  Play by play. Until we're finished.  We are in hell right now, gentlemen. Believe me.  And we can stay here and get the s--- kicked out of us, or we can fight our way back into the light.  We can  climb out of hell.  One inch at a time."

 

5 - Defensive line - At what point is the most expensive unit on our team going to step up and earn their paychecks this season?  I'm not going to do the math, but Murphy (Paid), Star (Paid) Oliver (1st), Shaq (1st), and Hughes (Paid) going to do anything in regards to a pass rush?  Phillips, the only guy not really getting paid (Yet) is the only one getting sacks.  Hughes gets a bit of a pass from me because he was getting absolutely mugged out there.  There was one hold on Hughes that was so bad it's hard to not buy into the theory that he pissed off the refs with his tunnel incident.  Regardless, I'm sure there will be some that say our scheme plays more of a containment scheme, and I'll give you that Murphy does a good job of tracking down screens or flip passes, but for the money and emphasis that McD puts on that part of the team, we aren't seeing a return on investment.  Against a rookie QB making his first start, this line should have been giving him fits, but our pressure only came when McD sent help.  Which....

 

6 - Blitzes - Credit to Frazier or McD, whoever was calling the plays this week, for sending extra pressure this week.  The Bills started doing it a little more last week, but today showed it almost every other series.  Unfortunately, it didn't translate to a lot of sacks as the Redskins did a good job picking it up.  It paid off big at the end with Tre getting a key sack when it was still a one score game.  There were a few other plays where Haskins barely got the ball out in time as we sent in guys from our secondary.  I'm curious to know if this is more McD or Frazier, but I'm happy to see at least one side of the coaching tree adjust to how the games are playing out.

 

7 - PI Calls - Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not PI if the defender initiates the tackle on the receiver before the ball gets to the receiver and also makes zero attempt to make a play for the ball?  I really want to know more about how that play wasn't considered PI and why McD didn't challenge it.  My assumption is the almost non-existent overturned PI calls that occurred this season.  That would have been a huge play for us and put the game back to a two score game.  On a side note, there was a challenge PI call in the Steelers/Colts game where they called PI, but didn't overturn it on the challenge.  The ball was overthrown to the receiver by at least 10 yards, but they upheld the call on the field.  Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but it's hard to not wonder if the refs are collectively rebelling against the rule change to allow their judgement calls be challenged.

 

8 - Special Teams - Two weeks in a row where the winds are affecting the football.  I'd be curious to hear from someone at the game about the one punt by Bojo that barely traveled 20 yards.  The commentators called it a shank, but the Skins punter executed the same type of punt from roughly the same spot on the field.  Other than that, Bojo was solid today and absolutely crushed one into the wind.  I was shocked at how far he was able to push.  I'd also be curious to see if reporters asked Roberts about his return deep into Redskins territory as he fielded it 5 yards into the endzone, but then took off.  I feel like he had to see something to make that decision.  But lastly, let's give credit to Foster for absolutely destroying the Redskins second kickoff return.  There was a lot of articles last year about how Foster really opened up to his role on special teams and made his impact felt today.

 

9 - Motor -  Let's jump right into our offensive MVP on the day.  I was genuinely impressed by how quickly the kid can hit full speed after a cut.  You can see him survey the field, be patient, and then burst off a cut into the open field.  His screen pass was a beautiful run and his shiftiness makes defenders miss.  It's almost frustrating how long it took Daboll to get him involved in the game like this.  One of the biggest knocks on the kid was his inability to pass block.  Not today my friends.  Singletary held up well in blocks and also did a great job of releasing to give Allen an escape valve.  I really liked what we saw from Singletary today was happy he was able to get into the endzone at the close of the game.  This is the game that let's you know why the Bills were okay releasing Shady.

 

Side note - It's comical to listen to the halftime show when Strahan and Long are talking about Bills players they clearly don't pay attention to.  Long compared him to Shady and Strahan compared him to Gore.  First off, you could see how annoyed Long was to have Strahan contradict him.  Second, how different a comparison can you possibly have.  Personally, I see him as a hybrid of Bell and Shady. 

 

10 - Allen - Another week where the box score wasn't great and another week where Allen fumbles the ball on the wrong side of the field.  But, like last week, I'm going to say that Allen is overall playing better as a quarterback.  Yes, he needs to stop fumbling the ball as it's not always going to get recovered by the Bills but Daboll also needs to stop calling those plays.  If Allen is going to rush, let it be his decision when the field opens up.  Besides, that, Allen was fairly accurate to me in a game where he wasn't asked to do a lot.  His bullet pass to Brown down the sideline while scrambling to avoid multiple sacks on 3rd and long at the end of the game was a thing of beauty.  It was a bullet and right on the money.  He had a similar play earlier in the game that Brown dropped.  It's so impressive to me how many defenders he makes miss a sack with his elusiveness. 

 

Overall, I don't think any QB was throwing for 250+ yards in this game.  His one deep ball to Foster was down the sideline finally and wasn't as bad as his recent deep balls.  I'm not an Allen apologist (as seen in my first quarter analysis of Allen), but I see what he is being given to work with and see overall solid execution.  I think Allen's limitations come from a timidness that Daboll has instilled within him.

 

 

6-2 for the first time since 1993 is a good feeling.  Now we are on the road to a Browns team that should be much better than they are on paper.  I think Hunt is able to return for this game which gives them a strong 1-2 punch with Chubb.  Bills need to act like a 6-2 team and put them away on the road before heading back to play the Dolphins, who was not an easy win.

 

Go Bills!

Edited November 4, 2019 by Virgil

[Chill]

Copy cat thread. A merge is in order. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Thought Allen played well today.

 

The OLine stunk and Daboll called plays like he was working in the 1991 Redskins offensive line. How many times are you going to run up the middle on whatever-and-short when time after time the OLine has proven that they cannot get push?

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

"I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is."

 

This has been my complaint all year.  Outthinking his own self.

 

No one expects the unexpected!

[US Egg]

They're 6-2.

 

End of story.....at this point.

Edited November 3, 2019 by I am the egg man

[BillsFanSD]

So negative after a solid win.

[Dopey]

10 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

"I don't know if Daboll doesn't understand what works for him or if he has a Martz complex where he feels like he has to prove how smart he is."

 

This has been my complaint all year.  Outthinking his own self.

 

No one expects the unexpected!

"Out thinking his own self"

That's another I'm adding to the list of terrible cliches.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Dopey

[Virgil]

8 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

So negative after a solid win.

 

I don't even know why I write the opening statement anymore...

[thurst44]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I don't even know why I write the opening statement anymore...

Admitting something is overly negative in the opening statement does not make an overly negative commentary less overly negative. 

[Virgil]

Just now, thurst44 said:

Admitting something is overly negative in the opening statement does not make an overly negative commentary less overly negative. 

 

Nor does it make the statements any less true. 

[PS 56]

Very good review.  I am with you on Oliver.  I haven't seen much from him all season.  The one credited sack was dubious at best.  I also am frustrated with Daboll.  I feel like he has put a damper on Allen.  As a result Allen seems to have lost the spark that kept him dynamic and interesting to watch.  

[clayboy54]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I don't even know why I write the opening statement anymore...

I really appreciate the time and thought you put into this post each week. However, your incessant whining and negative takes throughout the week has become tiring. I know you are a glass half-empty guy and that’s okay. But what you attribute to your own BBFS when you are a fan of a 6-2 team is weak to say the least. I expect this ignorant behavior from many of the dolts on this board. I don’t expect it to keep coming from you. Why don’t you take a few minutes, examine your takes and make an adjustment. You’d be much more interesting to engage with. We should all be having some fun with this Bills team this season.

[thurst44]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

Nor does it make the statements any less true. 

Nor does it make them true. One example: did you happen to notice that the defense stopped the run almost completely in the second half (AP had 7 yards in the second half). That is very hard when the other team has that level of momentum. It wasn't a perfect game against the rush, but they did seem to improve when it counted . And don't say it was b/c they were behind and they stopped running, b/c it was a close game and if it had kept working, they would have kept doing it.

 

Was it a satisfying win? No. However, to immediately feel the need to go to a board and say how bad this team is after a hard fought win. Why? There were a lot of positives too. Ultimately, they are 6-2, have some winnable games on the horizon and there's a lot to suggest the team's arrow is on the rise. And I really don't get your jeremiad against Oliver. 

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, thurst44 said:

Nor does it make them true. One example: did you happen to notice that the defense stopped the run almost completely in the second half (AP had 7 yards in the second half). That is very hard when the other team has that level of momentum. It wasn't a perfect game against the rush, but they did seem to improve when it counted . And don't say it was b/c they were behind and they stopped running, b/c it was a close game and if it had kept working, they would have kept doing it.

 

Was it a satisfying win? No. However, to immediately feel the need to go to a board and say how bad this team is after a hard fought win. Why? There were a lot of positives too. Ultimately, they are 6-2, have some winnable games on the horizon and there's a lot to suggest the team's arrow is on the rise. And I really don't get your jeremiad against Oliver. 

 

Read what I wrote.  I talked about why I thought they had issues when they did regarding stopping the run.  I didn't talk about the entire game.  I was only referring to those plays were we got gashed. 

 

I also commented that it was different when Oliver was on the field in the first half as well as the Skins changing things up to more outside runs in the second half. 

 

The point was about just the plays gashed up the middle and a point of concern in recent weeks.

[WideNine]

I would not say the OP is negative, just pointing out some concerns that need to be corrected if we are going to hang with better opponents.

 

I will take any win, and am sure Virgil will too. I liked Oliver and still do, but his game is quickness and hitting gaps to pressure the pocket. At this point in his development he can be exposed trying to defend the run. I would expect his rotation reps to go down and the Bills to put in some bigger bodies against teams that are determined to run up the gut on us.

 

It is a bit early to grade this kid because I think he has some foundational elements that cannot be taught, but he will need to get stronger and perfect his use of leverage and technique when teams look to move him on running plays.

 

That pass on the run from Allen that hit Brown in the hands was amazing and wish Brown could have reeled it in, but they made up for it with that laser catch on the sideline.

 

 

[Gray Beard]

I enjoy and appreciate your work.

 

In the third quarter I was wondering if the momentum had shifted. To me, just the fact that I was wondering means that there were aspects of the game that could stand improvement, and that this was not a truly dominant victory. 

 

I said in another thread that the line play and the lack of a true go-to receiver are holding this team back. One more year is needed to get the missing pieces of the puzzle in place. 

 

The short yardage play calling is another cause for concern.  You can’t expect to beat a good team if you fail twice on short yardage fourth downs.  

 

However, my dominant feeling is that I am happy the Bills won, and I will be in a slightly better mood for the next week because of it. 

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Nor does it make them true. One example: did you happen to notice that the defense stopped the run almost completely in the second half (AP had 7 yards in the second half). That is very hard when the other team has that level of momentum. It wasn't a perfect game against the rush, but they did seem to improve when it counted . And don't say it was b/c they were behind and they stopped running, b/c it was a close game and if it had kept working, they would have kept doing it.

 

Was it a satisfying win? No. However, to immediately feel the need to go to a board and say how bad this team is after a hard fought win. Why? There were a lot of positives too. Ultimately, they are 6-2, have some winnable games on the horizon and there's a lot to suggest the team's arrow is on the rise. And I really don't get your jeremiad against Oliver. 

Some folks like to actually discuss the team and other football related topics, not simply give each other high fives and say "Go Bills!".

 

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I really appreciate the time and thought you put into this post each week. However, your incessant whining and negative takes throughout the week has become tiring. I know you are a glass half-empty guy and that’s okay. But what you attribute to your own BBFS when you are a fan of a 6-2 team is weak to say the least. I expect this ignorant behavior from many of the dolts on this board. I don’t expect it to keep coming from you. Why don’t you take a few minutes, examine your takes and make an adjustment. You’d be much more interesting to engage with. We should all be having some fun with this Bills team this season.

 

You are 100% right and it's something I've honestly thought about as I wrote this.  It's a struggle sometimes because I'm allowing myself to start to treat the team like a playoff caliber unit.  The negatives, as I try to own up front as negatives, is coming from a mindset of what worries me going forward and as I evaluate a 6-2 team.

 

In recent years, it's almost been easier to be positive because expectations were so low.  I didn't think about anything beyond the game we were playing.

 

What's also funny to me is that a lot of my Allen comments could easily have his name removed and replaced with Tyrod from a final result.  But saying that will get me killed.  While they are very different QB's and Allen has way more potential, the end result is similar lately.

 

But yes, I understand your point and am trying to find the common ground.  When we made the playoffs two years ago, I didn't care that we lost to the Jags.  I was just so happy we made it finally. This year, I'd feel pissed if we got bounced in the first round.  I'd be moreso pissed if it's because of the things I mentioned in the first 3 points because it's something we are seeing happen every week now and aren't adjusting.

 

Overall, it's a testament to the raised expectations McD has created for me while also trying not to buy into previous Bills results. 

I honestly appreciate your post and I hope that somewhat adds some light to where I'm coming from.  Remember, we are both coming from the same place of wanting to see a winning team.

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Some folks like to actually discuss the team and other football related topics, not simply give each other high fives and say "Go Bills!".

 

 

Also, this

[thurst44]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

Read what I wrote.  I talked about why I thought they had issues when they did regarding stopping the run.  I didn't talk about the entire game.  I was only referring to those plays were we got gashed. 

 

I also commented that it was different when Oliver was on the field in the first half as well as the Skins changing things up to more outside runs in the second half. 

 

The point was about just the plays gashed up the middle and a point of concern in recent weeks.

You said "it doesn't seem to be getting any better." That is simply not true based on the second half. They did something hopeful against run and you didn't acknowledge it because it did not fit your narrative. And the logic "only referring to those plays where we got gashed" does not make sense b/c it does not count plays where we could have got gashed but did not. You could say the pass defense is terrible based only on the plays where the DB got beat. 

 

Yes, you say some positives, but the balance definitely seems a bit ridiculous for a team that is 6-2, no matter how they got there. There are more positives than you lock on to. 

 

Also, watching the Browns. Yes, they could beat us (any given sunday and billsbrowns days are nightmares), but the Browns really don't look "better than on paper."

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

35 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

They're 6-2.

 

End of story.....at this point.

 

Brilliant.