Ed O A Pipe Dream or a Dream Team Position Change ?

[BigDingus]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:07 PM, billieve420 said:

How many DTs start their rookie year and become instant impact players? I would assume few to none. 

 

A decent amount actually...

Marcel Dareus, Ndamukong Suh, Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, Gerald McCoy (pre-injury), Kawann Short, etc. all were impact players whether getting big sack numbers or not. 

 

I'm not upset Oliver isn't getting sack numbers (though I'd like to see more sacks in general), but it is kind of disappointing that he doesn't seem to be making as much of an impact as people expected. 

It wasn't just Bills fans expecting him to be a massive difference maker either, nation-wide it was heralded as a great pick. Look at this article for instance, it ranks him as the #1 choice to win DROY - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-defensive-rookie-of-the-year-picture-ranking-the-top-10-candidates/

[BigDingus]

On 10/31/2019 at 10:35 AM, T master said:

Okay i have been thinking about this for a while & i know that you the Bills fans will give your honest & unbiased opinion on it & some of you may even call me a dum ass for suggesting it but my skin has grown pretty thick since posting here so i'll throw this against the wall & see if it sticks .

 

In the Bills past there has been a few players that they had brought on board at one position  have seen some potential in them & thought that that could be utilized better at another position, the one that we most recognize with is of coarse Jason Peters he came to the Bills as a TE & they changed to LT to be one of the best to ever play the position for his entire career ! Oh & don't forget George Wilson changed from WR to a safety or DB what ever it was .

 

The Bills have recently gotten a rookie that was said to play out of position in college (but did better there than what i've seen in the NFL to this point) & that when they brought him here they would put him at a different position better suited for him but to this point i'm not really seeing it .

 

Ed Oliver is the player that i am talking about if you haven't guessed already . Upon him being drafted they said by putting him in the position he is now he would be a lot better player but from what i have seen to this point he is doing okay but the players here in the NFL are so much bigger than him although strong as he may be when you are out weighed by any where from 30 to 60 lbs that's got to be tough !!

 

So i was thinking given his size, his get off & motor would he be better suited to be a DE opposite Hughs ? I've looked at some resent & past DE's in the NFL & he isn't as tall but around the same weight . Boss in SF is 6'4" 260 ish Bruce was 6'4" about the same in weight Oliver is 6' 1" 286 ? witch could give him a advantage at getting under a O lineman to get around him on the edge .

 

I claim to be a fan & want the players the Bills get to have the best opportunity to produce but i don't really see Ed being that super talent at the position in the middle they need more of the Jordan Phillips/Horrible Harry  in the middle than Ed IMHO. So is there anything to this thought or have any of you had the same thought, or is this just a fan dreaming of what might be nothing but  a pipe dream ? 

 

The problem with this whole size thing is Aaron Donald is almost the EXACT same size, weight and body type as him... and his size has not been a problem at all. That's why Oliver was so often compared to Donald throughout his college career.

 

Ed Oliver - 6'1, 287 lbs ; 31 & 3/4th" arm length ; 9 & 1/4th" hand size 

Aaron Donald - 6'1, 284 lbs ; 32 & 5/8th" arm length; 9 & 7/8th" hand size 

 

Anyway, they're extremely similar physically, so it's not like he can't excel at the DT position.

[papazoid]

Ed Oliver would be great at either  DT or  DE....... he'd be way better than both hughes and murphy

[3rdand12]

On 11/1/2019 at 9:58 AM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Ed Oliver is a starter as a very young rookie player. He is playing good enough where you don’t really notice him out there but he is getting some good pressures. 

 

1 year in a NFL strength/training program and another year of playbook and film study and I think Oliver will be a monster. 

It does seem like this team has the personnel to run a very solid 3-4 defensive in the right situations. 

whom are the LBs though. need a thumper. 

[Locomark]

Right now he is underperforming his hype. That doesn’t mean he won’t be a good to great player. He was hyped as a dominant player by many football pundits.  He is not that right now on a team that could really use someone to dominate up front. Let’s see how he progresses this season. 

[DJB]

Oliver's natural position looks like QB to me.

 

Then we no longer have to suffer watching Oliver get stuffed at the line or that horrible Josh Allen guy!

[Cripple Creek]

I am surprised that our twin geniuses haven't decided to move Oliver around on the line. With his supposed power and speed it seems, to me, a natural thing to do to create mismatches.  Not sure if our coaches are too conservative or if Oliver needs time to grasp systems.

[Happy]

3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

I am surprised that our twin geniuses haven't decided to move Oliver around on the line. With his supposed power and speed it seems, to me, a natural thing to do to create mismatches.  Not sure if our coaches are too conservative or if Oliver needs time to grasp systems.

 

I think too conservative.  They rarely blitz and don't stunt.  McD and Frazier seem content keeping Oliver at the 3 tech and not moving him around.  Good thought, though.

[3rdand12]

3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

I am surprised that our twin geniuses haven't decided to move Oliver around on the line. With his supposed power and speed it seems, to me, a natural thing to do to create mismatches.  Not sure if our coaches are too conservative or if Oliver needs time to grasp systems.

surely they move guys around..
Each games asks for different points of attack or defense.

But to your point. i do not see them flipping murphy and hughes or Johnson and Lawson enough.
being predictable is fine when you dominate.

 

sometimes i miss Jim Schwartz , and was reminded of that last week

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

surely they move guys around..
Each games asks for different points of attack or defense.

But to your point. i do not see them flipping murphy and hughes or Johnson and Lawson enough.
being predictable is fine when you dominate.

 

sometimes i miss Jim Schwartz , and was reminded of that last week

 

Good post, especially the bolded.  Not that the Bills defense necessarily dominates, but i think it goes to the rigid nature of the defensive scheme and could explain the lack of movement.  The scheme is designed to work as is and not to be modified; when it doesn't work and/or is modified, that is where you see blow outs.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:21 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

I was vocal Bills should have traded up for Josh Allen when he made it past the Raiders. He has been great. I didn't want Oliver. After not getting Allen or Hockenson the best move was a trade down. I don't think Oliver is big enough for the NFL. Said it then and sticking to it.

He might be able to play a 3-4 DE from time to time, but McD never uses that formation. 

Even though I didn't want Oliver, he is playing ok for a rookie DT. The hopes of a 6-8 sack season  many on here predicted probably will not work out. But it will be 3 years before you really know if he is going to be a star, average,  or a bust.

 

 

Finally agree with Ethan on something.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

A decent amount actually...

Marcel Dareus, Ndamukong Suh, Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, Gerald McCoy (pre-injury), Kawann Short, etc. all were impact players whether getting big sack numbers or not. 

 

I'm not upset Oliver isn't getting sack numbers (though I'd like to see more sacks in general), but it is kind of disappointing that he doesn't seem to be making as much of an impact as people expected. 

It wasn't just Bills fans expecting him to be a massive difference maker either, nation-wide it was heralded as a great pick. Look at this article for instance, it ranks him as the #1 choice to win DROY - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-defensive-rookie-of-the-year-picture-ranking-the-top-10-candidates/

 

Kawann Short (who was actually my Oliver comparison around draft time) started 0 games as a rookie was used entirely as a situational interior rusher and I can't from memory remember what his sack numbers or pressure numbers were like but I don't think they were massive. 

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Good post, especially the bolded.  Not that the Bills defense necessarily dominates, but i think it goes to the rigid nature of the defensive scheme and could explain the lack of movement.  The scheme is designed to work as is and not to be modified; when it doesn't work and/or is modified, that is where you see blow outs.

thank Happy.
I am not feeling the Team is playing with some flexibility on game days.
They did have some nice second half adjustments so far this season,
but more subtle than not.

The game where Levi Wallace was getting attacked.
They just stayed true and let him work it out. For better or worse i guess.

would you have brought pressure from the weakside or played and under if Levi was playing the over.

 Perhaps it is too subtle for me and they are tweaking.
 as mentioned, are Bills stunting or bringing the inside blitzes much??

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kawann Short (who was actually my Oliver comparison around draft time) started 0 games as a rookie was used entirely as a situational interior rusher and I can't from memory remember what his sack numbers or pressure numbers were like but I don't think they were massive. 

It is a long term investment in Ed.
from Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

 

 DO NOT PANIC

 

lol