What's gone wrong with the team lately and this season in general despite 5-2

[BillsBlue]

1 hour ago, Rocket94 said:

I was concerned with the run defense again. It definately needs attention before we have a repeat of the recent past. The Eagles are a good team, and they were able to exploit a few weaknesses. It is good to find these things out now so they can be corrected.

Exactly what I'm trying to say in my op I don't think the sky is falling and we're right on track but these are the things I see that need tweaks/changes to put this team over the top. Heck we do what I listed and I think we can beat the best in the league, again I'm leaving looking to be an elite unit that can dominate weak opposition and get into a shoot out if need be with elite company. That's what it takes these days, this is what is needed to take this division next season and for years to come. Let's have another dynasty it's about time we did. 

44 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

I hate to break up the love-fest here, but what do EITHER of you guys think about running the ball more?

 

 

Yes please like I said singletary needs a shot as a 3 down back for the bulk of the game and we need a flat pass/screen game with him to help free up everything else. 

[jrober38]

21 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

I think you're right: Memo Dabol plz.  I would like to see more like 25 attempts from Allen.

 

They are going to HAVE to take this approach if they want to be beat Dallas or Baltimore.

 

 

 

Agreed. In both games they'll need to slow the game down, limit possessions and try to win the turnover battle. In other words, we'll need pretty much everything to go right to win either game.

 

Ultimately I view this as an indictment for where our QB is in his development. We're well into year two and we're still running an offense with training wheels because he can't be fully trusted to take care of the ball. 

[Rocket94]

1 minute ago, BillsBlue said:

Exactly what I'm trying to say in my op I don't think the sky is falling and we're right on track but these are the things I see that need tweaks/changes to put this team over the top. Heck we do what I listed and I think we can beat the best in the league, again I'm leaving looking to be an elite unit that can dominate weak opposition and get into a shoot out if need be with elite company. That's what it takes these days, this is what is needed to take this division next season and for years to come. Let's have another dynasty it's about time we did. 

I know the Bills are in year 3 of a rebuild and other teams have done it sooner, but what does that have to do with the Bills. The Bills are on the right track, and the 2020 draft and FA will allow them to add more talented players to carry out the defensive schemes. Of course this offense and Josh Allen need to improve as well.

[BillsBlue]

31 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Unlikely to see the degree of turnover the OP suggests.  Next season, there will inevitably be players playing in positions that will frustrate fans.  We'll talk about getting two new tackles but will end up getting one that is better and hope that is enough to stabilize the line.  We'll want Ford out of the RT position but they'll either see progression or move him to guard and we'll hope they are correct.  No way you blow up the roster at this point.  It's continual incremental improvement at this point.  Add an impactful RT, WR, and DE and you've got a substantially better team IMO. 

This is what I see for next year as well and it seems realistic. I was just stating what I see that needs to happen be it in 1 or 2 seasons from now to make us a perrenial playoff team in general. I hope I'm wrong about Edmunds and he gets better at being in the right place at the right time and same goes for Ford. 

[thurst44]

12 hours ago, Pokebball said:

If the line was even average, we'd be able to run the ball.

We're 8th in the league in rushing with a 36-year-old featured back and our draft pick out most of the year. Let's get some perspective here.

[Pokebball]

21 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

We're 8th in the league in rushing with a 36-year-old featured back and our draft pick out most of the year. Let's get some perspective here.

You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point.  Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses.  Please don't lose that perspective.  Take this most recent game, for example.  Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19.  For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game.  Josh is responsible for 34 of that.  The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs  Not good.  And that's on the O line.

[dakrider]

Bills just haven't clicked on offense this year at all imo.  The offense has had some great quarters of football but not any great games.  This team makes to many mistakes in each and every game from penalties and guys out of position to O-line issues and receivers dropping passes.  And it seems Allen is only working the short passing game 95% of time.  Also on 3rd and 1 or 2, to many times not getting a first down.  I don't see many great plays offensively by this team, seems like about 2 each game.  I watch some NFL games that have 2-3 great plays on 1 drive.   I would like to see Foster in there, more passes to Singletary out of backfield, more slants to Beasley and more 20-30 stikes to Brown.  

No excuse for a team to go 3 and out on first possession of an NFL game and Bills have done that several times.  THats just poor game planning and execution if you can't move the ball to start a game.  Even several bad teams start out games well.  

[thurst44]

17 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point.  Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses.  Please don't lose that perspective.  Take this most recent game, for example.  Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19.  For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game.  Josh is responsible for 34 of that.  The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs  Not good.  And that's on the O line.

Soooooo, those rushing yards don't count, then?

 

Also, the plural of one game is not season in the same way the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

Anyway, you watched the games with your interpretation, I did mine (re-watched a few times on condensed and coaches). What I saw: Dawkins blocking mostly well and often exceptionally for both run and pass. Cody Ford boom-or-bust, Feliciano a beast in run game, Spain much better in run than pass, Nsheke good enough I rarely even noticed him, Morse caught out a couple times, but some brilliant blocks). Admittedly, I'm not a coach, but there does seem to be a lot of things to be hopeful for.  

Edited October 31, 2019 by thurst44

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Soooooo, those rushing yards don't count, then. 

 

And the plural of one game is not season in the same way the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

They count, but they take a toll.

 

Josh has already been concussed and he's taken several legit roughing the passer or personal foul calls outside the pocket.

 

When he runs, he exposes himself to big hits which will eventually take a toll.

 

I don't think our running game is bad, so much as we just don't give our backs the ball enough. 

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Remove Allens yards

You might want to do some research. If you remove Allen's yards, their ypc average actually goes up. Presently, they're fifth in the league with 4.9 ypc. Allen is averaging 4.4. 

25 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point.  Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses.  Please don't lose that perspective.  Take this most recent game, for example.  Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19.  For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game.  Josh is responsible for 34 of that.  The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs  Not good.  And that's on the O line.

If you're going to judge a running game, focus on production per play and not raw numbers. The Bills are objectively good at running the ball via their running backs. 

[Pokebball]

11 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Soooooo, those rushing yards don't count, then?

 

Also, the plural of one game is not season in the same way the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

Anyway, you watched the games with your interpretation, I did mine (re-watched a few times on condensed and coaches). What I saw: Dawkins blocking mostly well and often exceptionally for both run and pass. Cody Ford boom-or-bust, Feliciano a beast in run game, Spain much better in run than pass, Nsheke good enough I rarely even noticed him, Morse caught out a couple times, but some brilliant blocks). Admittedly, I'm not a coach, but there does seem to be a lot of things to be hopeful for.  

Of course they count.  But my point is all about the O line performing up to my expectations.  When our RBs are averaging less than 100 yds per game and our QB is getting a significant number of rushing yards because his pocket collapses and he's scrambling, it's important to understand that.  You don't think so?

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

They count, but they take a toll.

 

Josh has already been concussed and he's taken several legit roughing the passer or personal foul calls outside the pocket.

 

When he runs, he exposes himself to big hits which will eventually take a toll.

 

I don't think our running game is bad, so much as we just don't give our backs the ball enough. 

Our O line is horrendous blocking the edges.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Pokebball said:

Of course they count.  But my point is all about the O line performing up to my expectations.  When our RBs are averaging less than 100 yds per game and our QB is getting a significant number of rushing yards because his pocket collapses and he's scrambling, it's important to understand that.  You don't think so?

I don’t have numbers, but to my eye most ofAllens rushing yards this year have come on designed runs, some on scrambles due to coverage , then even less when the pocket has collapsed. It’d be interesting to see a breakdown of this. The OL has been good, not dominating, but the RBs need more carries. 

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t have numbers, but to my eye most ofAllens rushing yards this year have come on designed runs, some on scrambles due to coverage , then even less when the pocket has collapsed. It’d be interesting to see a breakdown of this. The OL has been good, not dominating, but the RBs need more carries. 

We both agree that the RBs need more carries.  We'll have to agree to disagree on the performance of the O line.

[SoTier]

 

3 hours ago, Dr. K said:

 

I thought it was funny, after the Eagles game, reading all the hysterical pronouncements: the Bills needed to run  more, they needed to forget running and pass more, they needed to throw the long ball, they needed to get rid of Haushka, they needed to get AJ Green, they needed to get Trent Williams, they needed to fire Dabol, they don''t care about scoring points . . . etc. 

 

Fans are divided on what needs to be done about the offense, but they recognize that the offense needs some kind of change because it's ineffective at best and sometimes worse.  Do the Bills FO/CS even acknowledge that?    I'm not sure that they do.

 

Many fans are calling for more running plays because it's widely accepted that a strong running game is a big help to any QB but especially a young one.  It takes a lot of pressure off him.  It also expands the play book to include play action passing which is very effective in slowing down the pass rush.

 

2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Gore had 17 carries for 109 yards against the Pats.... 

 

Gore hasn't had that many carries before or since.  Most good RBs tend to run better as they get more carries because they get into a rhythm -- as does their OL.    A team can't have a good running game if their RBs frequently rush the ball 20 or fewer times a game and/or fail to rack up considerably more than 100+ yards with regularity. 

 

41 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

You remove Allen's rushing yards things don't look so bright remains my point.  Most of his yards come from his decision to scramble after the pocket collapses.  Please don't lose that perspective.  Take this most recent game, for example.  Josh rushed for 45; Gore for 34 and Singletary for 19.  For the season, the Bills are averaging 130/game.  Josh is responsible for 34 of that.  The Bill's are under 100yds per game from our RBs  Not good.  And that's on the O line.

 

Part of it is on the OL but part of it is simply not running enough.  Even without Allen's yards, the RBs' average per carry is decent.  That says that the coaches aren't calling enough run plays rather than the RBs aren't moving the ball. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by SoTier

[stuvian]

we need a full blown panic attack and to fire everybody just like we did during the decade of fail

[Pasaluki]

To me a big problem stems from Allen not being able to hit deep. If he improves, that it will open up the defenses and help the offense more than anything else. Allen has completely inverted in that he has significantly improved what was said by many to be impossible to improve:short-medium passing. But his deep ball accuracy has dropped off so badly that it is not even a concern for our opponents at this point. 

[Rc2catch]

2 hours ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

THIS is exactly correct IMO also:  Buffalo is a poor passing team that INSISTS on throwing the ball anyway.

 

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/situational-run-pass-ratios--off-.html

 

Here's your analytics Buffalo!

 

Bills have an extremely high success rate running the ball.

 

 

 

 

I thought for sure with the offensive lineman in free agency then picking ford and singletary they built this offense to pound the rock, this line is made to maul a defense not finesse pass block. 

[Buffalo Junction]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Gore hasn't had that many carries before or since.  Most good RBs tend to run better as they get more carries because they get into a rhythm -- as does their OL.    A team can't have a good running game if their RBs frequently rush the ball 20 or fewer times a game and/or fail to rack up considerably more than 100+ yards with regularity. 

 

Part of it is on the OL but part of it is simply not running enough.  Even without Allen's yards, the RBs' average per carry is decent.  That says that the coaches aren't calling enough run plays rather than the RBs aren't moving the ball. 

I agree with what you’re saying. My contention would be that we don’t have a poor running game, but rather we have an under utilized rushing attack... but semantics. ?‍♂️

[Socal-805]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

You might want to do some research. If you remove Allen's yards, their ypc average actually goes up. Presently, they're fifth in the league with 4.9 ypc. Allen is averaging 4.4. 

If you're going to judge a running game, focus on production per play and not raw numbers. The Bills are objectively good at running the ball via their running backs. 

 

 

You are correct:  Buffalo runs the ball at a 54 % "success" rate and at 4.9 yards / carry.  BOTH stats among the highest in the league.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

To the OP:

 

Thanks for your Fred Jackson story!  That was heart warming and a cool experience for you, no doubt.  Made me feel good to read it.  

 

I went through the first page of responses and noted that nobody bothered to respond to this, largely because it is a positive story that unites us all as Bills fans.

 

Most folks aren't here for that.  They are filled with hate, want to argue and fight, and this explains the generally toxic environment at this forum.

 

We are all brothers and sisters in that we are in the tiny minority of people in this country who cheer for the Buffalo Bills and want to see them win a Super Bowl.

 

We all share more in common than in adversity, but you would never know it reading through the the threads here on a daily basis.

 

What a shame.