WGR-550 Dust-up Today: Schopp vs. Capaccio!

[BillsFan692]

Schopp kinda has a point.

 

I dont like him, and i certainly think this "administration" is better than the previous... but this team hasnt actually proven to be better and our offense and passing game still stinks major.

 

Until they prove it, doubt will remain.

 

They are basically both correct. The team is administratively in a better position, and we all prefer the current management style over the fly by nighters, but at the end of the day the result on the field is what matters the most and when it comes to that its hard to demonstrably prove we are any better then the previous teams over the past 20 years.

 

Hopefully that changes, but right now I feel like we havent proven squat to anyone.

[Seven-N-Nine]

8 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

If you think Schopp is right about anything..ever..re-evaluate everything you have ever thought. 

 

I can only assume you live in a state of willful ignorance (hopefully just about the Bills and not about "real life").  Sal is a homer/shill, he does not stand at his position objectively, just like many Bills fans, they love their team so much they assume whoever is in charge is great no matter how long the team has sucked/is sucking.  It's quite remarkable how hope and belief can blind human beings to reality.

[Seven-N-Nine]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Schopp's position can never be wrong when evaluating the Bills offense and Allen tho.  That's why he's hunkered down and doubled down on his negative opinions of Josh's game. 

 

Criticizing and blaming the QB is the easiest thing in the world to do.  Because one of two things would have to happen for tools like him to ever waver from that is 1. Allen starts putting up Mahomes like numbers or 2. Wins a super bowl.

 

Neither of those 2 is likely and the latter if it does in all probability (and I'm sure his analytical brain understands this) won't happen for some time if at all.  He could win playoff games sure ....even then.  "But is he really good enough!!??"

 

He could have a Goff like trajectory.  And be where Goff is at right now.  And I one hundred percent guarantee you he will be on air telling you the QB (in this case Goff) isn't good enough.  

 

Even Kelly had critics his whole career that would say through the SB years that "maybe Reich would be better."   They were not anything close to even a loud minority but they were there.  

 

So get used to it folks.  He's no contrarian.  He's no savant.  He's a bitter troll.  "The QB isn't good enough" can be said about 24 of the 32 teams.  I don't agree with it....but it could be said.  What's to ever prove you wrong?  He'll just wait for that SB that odds are unfortunately may not happen and trash McD and Beane for daring to even get a little brash.  K Mike.  Thanks.  

 

Shut him off and wait for his replacement.  

 

 

 

And Howard is coming dangerously close to it to.  I'll listen to the morning guys and on and on this week about the O being a bigger problem than the D.  Wow!  That's a hot take right there Howard!  You guys ever going to assess what you think about Allen long term.....you know the question you asked all freaking off season.

 

Schopp wanted Watson and then Jackson, Bulldog wanted Mahomes and then Jackson.  No trading up required for either of those 1st round QB's (could have traded down and still got Jackson), Mahomes, Watson & Jackson are all playing better than Allen, Mahomes obviously light years better.  Two sports radio hosts (and tons of Bills fans) would have been less reckless, and would have selected better QB's than the vaunted Bills FO.  They have wasted draft picks, passed on better talent, and the team is still the same. Schopp is 100% on target.

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

I can only assume you live in a state of willful ignorance (hopefully just about the Bills and not about "real life").  Sal is a homer/shill, he does not stand at his position objectively, just like many Bills fans, they love their team so much they assume whoever is in charge is great no matter how long the team has sucked/is sucking.  It's quite remarkable how hope and belief can blind human beings to reality.

 

lol, I didn't say a thing about Sal...you might want to worry less about willful ignorance and more about hooked on phonics.

[Seven-N-Nine]

12 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

lol, I didn't say a thing about Sal...you might want to worry less about willful ignorance and more about hooked on phonics.

 

I'm inferring you're a homer based on your observations of Schopp.

[Radar]

This team is not the worst it's been but not nearly as improved as many seem to think. Howard, bad news this defense not all that much better than our offense. We have an easy schedule and have looked vulnerable against some bad teams.

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

I'm inferring you're a homer based on your observations of Schopp.

 

Hooked on phonics has reading comprehension courses too I believe.

[jrober38]

16 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Schopp's position can never be wrong when evaluating the Bills offense and Allen tho.  That's why he's hunkered down and doubled down on his negative opinions of Josh's game. 

 

Criticizing and blaming the QB is the easiest thing in the world to do.  Because one of two things would have to happen for tools like him to ever waver from that is 1. Allen starts putting up Mahomes like numbers or 2. Wins a super bowl.

 

Neither of those 2 is likely and the latter if it does in all probability (and I'm sure his analytical brain understands this) won't happen for some time if at all.  He could win playoff games sure ....even then.  "But is he really good enough!!??"

 

He could have a Goff like trajectory.  And be where Goff is at right now.  And I one hundred percent guarantee you he will be on air telling you the QB (in this case Goff) isn't good enough.  

 

Even Kelly had critics his whole career that would say through the SB years that "maybe Reich would be better."   They were not anything close to even a loud minority but they were there.  

 

So get used to it folks.  He's no contrarian.  He's no savant.  He's a bitter troll.  "The QB isn't good enough" can be said about 24 of the 32 teams.  I don't agree with it....but it could be said.  What's to ever prove you wrong?  He'll just wait for that SB that odds are unfortunately may not happen and trash McD and Beane for daring to even get a little brash.  K Mike.  Thanks.  

 

Shut him off and wait for his replacement.  

 

 

 

And Howard is coming dangerously close to it to.  I'll listen to the morning guys and on and on this week about the O being a bigger problem than the D.  Wow!  That's a hot take right there Howard!  You guys ever going to assess what you think about Allen long term.....you know the question you asked all freaking off season.

 

You're essentially just saying you dislike him because he's right and refuses to blindly believe in a QB who is statistically one of the worst QBs in the league.

 

Neither of them like Josh Allen long term. As is the case with most people who objectively cover the NFL. 

[PromoTheRobot]

31 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You're essentially just saying you dislike him because he's right and refuses to blindly believe in a QB who is statistically one of the worst QBs in the league.

 

Neither of them like Josh Allen long term. As is the case with most people who objectively cover the NFL. 

 

But both also tucked their tails between their legs when Josh was playing well. So disingenuous. We all know Jeremy White almost jumped out a window over the Josh Allen pick. Then he starts to play well and he's like "well, I never said he wouldn't be good." And now that Josh is struggling, it's back to the original narrative.

[Dablitzkrieg]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But both also tucked their tails between their legs when Josh was playing well. So disingenuous. We all know Jeremy White almost jumped out a window over the Josh Allen pick. Then he starts to play well and he's like "well, I never said he wouldn't be good." And now that Josh is struggling, it's back to the original narrative.

Jeremy loved Rosen because it aligned with his political agenda.  It was obvious.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Dablitzkrieg

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But both also tucked their tails between their legs when Josh was playing well. So disingenuous. We all know Jeremy White almost jumped out a window over the Josh Allen pick. Then he starts to play well and he's like "well, I never said he wouldn't be good." And now that Josh is struggling, it's back to the original narrative.

 

When has Josh played well this year?

 

His QB Rating has been near the bottom of the NFL all season.

Edited November 1, 2019 by jrober38

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

You're essentially just saying you dislike him because he's right and refuses to blindly believe in a QB who is statistically one of the worst QBs in the league.

 

Neither of them like Josh Allen long term. As is the case with most people who objectively cover the NFL. 

 

 

Stop yourself at "he's right."

 

That's the problem.  No one knows....he's developing.  He's on pace for 4000 total yards; 24 TDs (trending up) and 12 INTS (trending down).

 

But yep.  He's a bust.  

 

And can he just come out and say it.  Be brave and say he sucks and will never be good.  

 

Contrarian.  

Edited November 1, 2019 by Big Blitz

[Dr.Sack]

I believe Sal took issue with Schopp’s critique that the 2019 Bills under Beane & McD are not as good as the 2014. Sal is a big picture guy and Schopp was taking a cheap shot at the Bills FO & IMO. 
 

I was all for a Geno Atkins or AJ Green trade but I’m not upset it didn’t happen given the Bills reasoning which is draft centric. 
 

Objectively speaking the 2019 Bills have much to build from picks & open cap space. The 2014 Bills had no long term future with Orton under center & Backup QB EJ Manuel. Doug Whaley & Brandon desperately gave up too much for Watkins (2015 1st & 4th rounders) when other WRs were still on the board. 

So in many ways it boils down to what we have in Allen. Fortunately for us our future doesn’t hinge on his ability to improve as a QB. We will have the money and draft assets to easily find a replacement. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

When has Josh played well this year?

 

His QB Rating has been near the bottom of the NFL all season.

 

Oh I don't know. Like when he kept leading winning drives in the 4th?

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Stop yourself at "he's right."

 

That's the problem.  No one knows....he's developing.  He's on pace for 4000 total yards; 24 TDs (trending up) and 12 INTS (trending down).

 

But yep.  He's a bust.  

 

And can he just come out and say it.  Be brave and say he sucks and will never be good.  

 

Contrarian.  

 

He's not developing fast enough. He's the 28th ranked QB in the NFL despite playing one of the easiest schedules in the league.

 

QBs typically don't improve much after their second year starting. Generally what you see in their second year playing is what you get long term.

 

Can you name any QBs from the last 15 years who took a big jump after playing two years? All I can think of is Eli Manning and maybe Matt Stafford. I can't think of anyone else. 

[Stank_Nasty]

23 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Sal is a Bills' homer.

 

Schopp is not.

 

Schopp looks at things objectively, almost to a fault as someone who has covered the same team for so long, but his thoughts are usually spot on. He's forward thinking and understands where the game is and should be going. He's aware of analytics, gets the math and understands when coaches make correct and (often) incorrect decisions. 

 

Sal is a guy who understands the game in a traditional sense, but his opinions are flawed because he wants to always give the Bills the benefit of the doubt. 

 

Schopp is spot on here. The Bills are no better now than they have been over the past 10 years. They have hardly any elite talent or difference makers, a coach who I assume Schopp thinks is probably too conservative, and a GM who he views as being completely reckless with draft picks by having traded so many away. 

 

Schopp is focusing on the state of the team, and Sal is projecting the state of the franchise (which is definitely improved over 4+ years ago) and has convinced himself that the Bills are great because their front office has their house in order and has managed the cap well. Unfortunately for Sal it ultimately comes down to wins and championships, and despite making the playoffs these coaches and front office haven't really accomplished anything. 

 

In 2-3 years, Sal might be right and the improved state of the franchise might have begun to impact the results of the team, but Schopp is right that it's not there yet. 

The bills are no better than they’ve been over the last 10 years? Dude...... WOW. 
 

The bills have a better team than they’ve had in over a decade and they are set up better for the future than they’ve been since the 90’s 

 

you think the dude is right because he has the same screwed up views you do. 

[oldmanfan]

30 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

He's not developing fast enough. He's the 28th ranked QB in the NFL despite playing one of the easiest schedules in the league.

 

QBs typically don't improve much after their second year starting. Generally what you see in their second year playing is what you get long term.

 

Can you name any QBs from the last 15 years who took a big jump after playing two years? All I can think of is Eli Manning and maybe Matt Stafford. I can't think of anyone else. 

It sure isn’t Winston

[jrober38]

9 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

The bills are no better than they’ve been over the last 10 years? Dude...... WOW. 
 

The bills have a better team than they’ve had in over a decade and they are set up better for the future than they’ve been since the 90’s 

 

you think the dude is right because he has the same screwed up views you do. 

 

What are you basing this on?

[Stank_Nasty]

10 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

What are you basing this on?

The  fact that they came in and immediately broke the drought of 17 years while clearing underachievers and cap space and are now set up for their 2nd playoff berth in 3 years and to win more games than they’ve won in the last 20 years with a core group of players they’ve drafted and recruited via free agency.... all while having 90 mil next year on top of that. 
 

The fact that needed explaining is sorta weird 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[jrober38]

14 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

The  fact that they came in and immediately broke the drought of 17 years while clearing underachievers and cap space and are now set up for their 2nd playoff berth in 3 years and to win more games than they’ve won in the last 20 years with a core group of players they’ve drafted and recruited via free agency.... all while having 90 mil next year on top of that. 
 

The fact that needed explaining is sorta weird 

 

I thought you'd get into specifics on the team's players you like vs the guys we'll hypothetically sign because we have a bunch of cap space.

 

I see little elite talent and it's always a challenge for us to bring top free agents here. Tre White is awesome. No one else is even remotely elite. We have good players and few holes, but there are hardly any difference makers on this roster and our offense is still really bad. 

 

The cap situation is all helpful, but as Schopp is saying, none of it means anything in the grand scheme of things unless you win, go deep in the playoffs and compete for titles.

 

As he said, there are no awards given to the team with the best cap situation.

Edited November 2, 2019 by jrober38