rumor Nate Clements to the redskins

[todd]

http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/2005PreDraft.html

 

This is possible as Clements is unsignable and franchise tag for CB is absurd.  Gregg Williams loves clements

300808[/snapback]

 

"Reports" eh? What a load of crap. That web site has no credibility, is designed horribly, and looks like a bunch of crap. I don't think Williams drafted Clements, I think Donahoe did. Amazing how idiots rewrite history.

[Bill from NYC]

The one thing every draftnik in the world agrees on: this year's draft is crappy. One thing many of us agree on: first round picks are barely ever worth the money you have to pay for them these days.

 

When you put those two together, then please tell me WHY in the name of all that is holy you would take one of the best corners around and unload him prematurely to move up to a draft position where there are no players of value to use at the price they will cost us? In what world does that even remotely make sense? You get another year out of Nate; a year in which he will likely elevate his game so some moronic team will pay him craploads of money the following year to be on a mediocre team.

 

THEN get your picks or trade for him. But now?

 

Man, this is right up with here with whatshisnames idea that we should just cut Travis Henry because he's a moronic pedophile cancer. I sure hope those of you who say 'let's consider the trade' don't have to make a living out of negotiating.

300895[/snapback]

 

Sorry LA, but your posting is incorrect and perhaps short sighted.

 

>>>>>You get another year out of Nate; a year in which he will likely elevate his game so some moronic team will pay him craploads of money the following year to be on a mediocre team.

 

THEN get your picks or trade for him. But now?<<<<<

 

Next season NC will be a UFA. How do you expect the Bills to get compensation for him? With the Franchise Tag and a trade? TD is too smart for this. Did you see what happened to the Raiders. They tried it and now have to pay Woodson a GUARANTEED 10 mil for one season, after which he will once again be a UFA and make another killing.

 

Besides, how do any of us know that NC even wants to return to Buffalo? What makes you think that he doesn't want a warmer climate, more money etc? Also, do you think TD is apt to sign CBs to 40+ million dollar contracts? I do not.

 

My contention is that in all probability, NC is gone after this season. What drives you to ridicule the possibility of getting compensation for him, as opposed to nothing whatsoever?

Please also remember that a 9th pick in a draft can be traded for additional picks, and/or picks in 06.

 

As for your remarks about getting rid of Travis, none of us truly know how this story will unfold. We might even get lucky and get a seemingly sub-par lineman for him, but I have a feeling that you, not I will be disappointed when his worth comes to fruition in terms of a trade or yes, an outright release.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

"Reports" eh? What a load of crap. That web site has no credibility, is designed horribly, and looks like a bunch of crap. I don't think Williams drafted Clements, I think Donahoe did. Amazing how idiots rewrite history.

I think it's semantics about who drafted him. I'm sure that GW wanted Clements badly back in 2001 and as a DC knows the value of a good CB. He also knows Snyder is stupid enough to give up a pick(s) and money for a good CB. I think the scenario is entirely plausible.

 

As for whether to do the deal or not, that would take more info. It would depend on what Nate wants, what he was offered, and if the Bills have any intention of paying one player all that money after paying a lot for MW. I also don't think that people saying this is a weak draft means that the Bills can't get a good player at #9, or even a few spots later.

[RJsackedagain]

Yeah I gave up looking for it after my epileptic seizures stopped. 

300811[/snapback]

[Bill from NYC]

That's part of the reason why he's worth MORE than a 9th pick in the first round.  Clements is as good as it gets at CB.  He is a great cover man, he plays the run like a SS and he makes plays and scores TD's.  There isn't really another corner in the NFL who does all of these things as well as Clements. 

 

You can entertain a trade though.  Great teams can be built off of such trades.  But it has to be a blockbuster, and just the 9th pick in this draft does not qualify.  If you can't get all of that and more, just franchise Clements next offseason.

301037[/snapback]

 

Badol, but if NC is franchised, the cap hit just for just him and Mike Williams will exceed 18 million dollars. We are talking about a CB and a Right Tackle.

 

Imo, this seems like too much money to be allocated to these positions. We are not talking about Peyton Manning and Julius Peppers here, nor Ogden, Pace, etc. Instead, we are looking at 18 mil. for a corner and the highest paid RT (I think) in the history of football.

 

Sorry, I just cant see the Franchise Tag happening with NC.

[LancasterSteve]

I would only consider this if Dan Snyder offered more than his first.  TD vs. Snyder in a negotiation like this would be fun to see.  Snyder is a pretty formidable business guy but the football team is his toy and when he covets a guy he overpays....

 

So how about their first and their third this year and maybe a conditional '06 pick based on Nate's playing time in '05--up to a second.

300847[/snapback]

 

Ouch!! Joe you drive a hard bargin

 

but I like it, I like it a lot......beginning to sound like the Dallas - Minny trade for H Walker.

 

Always nice to see such a nice guy like Snyder get taken to the cleaners

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I doubt the Skins would give up more than a 1st. When they signed Coles as a RFA, the said that if the Jets had tendered him at a 1st and 3rd round pick they wouldn't have gone after him.

[The Jokeman]

I doubt the Skins would give up more than a 1st.  When they signed Coles as a RFA, the said that if the Jets had tendered him at a 1st and 3rd round pick they wouldn't have gone after him.

301172[/snapback]

We might be able to pull of Rod Gardner (whom they've been rumored to want to trade) and their 1st but personally I wouldn't do it as Nate is coming off a Pro Bowl season and Gardner might be a career 3rd WR after a promising first two seasons in the league. I say keep Nate for the season, franchise next season and if needed move him then even though think he's worth the franchise tag as he very well could be among the top 5 CBs in the NFL.

[John from Riverside]

In my opinion this idea sucks.......

[Mile High]

In my opinion this idea sucks.......

301266[/snapback]

I would have to agree.

[Mark VI]

Whoever is selected at #9 this April will be vastly overpaid. Multiple teams are trying to trade down/out of the top 15 slots, due to the shortage of true blue chippers.

 

If a trade was to be made, I'd take a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year...and a #1 in 2006. The next draft is loaded with quality LT candidates and seems to be much stronger overall, according to Ourlads Scouting.

 

One position that is loaded with depth this year is CB. So quality could be found in Round #2.

 

I wish to keep Nate but if TD already knows he's walking after 2005, after discussions with his agent, then a trade should be considered. The Franchise tag is way too high for CB's these days. Didn't the Pats win the Superbowl with 2 backups at CB ?

[Bill from NYC]

Whoever is selected at #9 this April will be vastly overpaid.  Multiple teams are trying to trade down out of the top 15 slots, due to the shortage of true blue chippers.

 

If a trade was to be made, I'd take a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year...and a #1 in 2006. The next draft is loaded with quality LT candidates and seems to be much stronger overall, according to Ourlads Scouting.

 

One position that is loaded with depth this year is CB. So quality could be found in Round #2.

 

I wish to keep Nate but if TD already knows he's walking after 2005, after discussions with his agent, then a trade should be considered. The Franchise tag is way too high for CB's these days. Didn't the Pats win the Superbowl with 2 backups at CB ?

301302[/snapback]

Well done Mark. It would have taken me perhaps 5 posts on the topic to say it just that well. I fully agree.

Imo, the entire discussion is not based opon whether or not Nate is a great player. We all know he is.

What matters here imo is whether or not NC wants to stay, and whether or not TD wants to pay him at least 40 million dollars. If either one of these factors go sour, we lose NC and I for one would hate to get nothing in return.

[canbuffan34]

at face value, this trade is pathetic.  no way i would trade a pro bowl cornerback just hitting his prime for a draft pick.  i don't care if its #9 or #1.  you're trading a proven player for potential

 

unfortunately this is also NCs contract year, and in all likely hood he's a goner.  hell, TD didn't even resign Pat Williams who said he wanted to stay and would even take less (but fair) money to stay a Bill.  if TD doesn't expect Nate to resign, either out of not wanting to be a Bill or wanting more money than TD will pay, then make the trade. 

 

the 9th overall in a weak draft is still much more attractive than a compensatory 3rd in 2007

300953[/snapback]

We all have to accept the fact that TD is staying true to form in that when he was the GM of the Steelers he did the exact same thing with their big name free-agents, he dismantled that team every year but we can take solice in the fact that they did consistently field a competitive football team. By the way, did you give Silver Mike permission to copy your avatar? That's breaking one of our laws here isn't it? Copying another person's avatar.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

We all have to accept the fact that TD is staying true to form in that when he was the GM of the Steelers he did the exact same thing with their big name free-agents, he dismantled that team every year but we can take solice in the fact that they did consistently field a competitive football team.

When he first became GM of the Bills, he was faced with the prospect of letting both Moulds and Wiley walk. He paid Moulds. So if TD thinks Clements is worth keeping, and Clements doesn't ask for the moon, TD will pay him. If not, a trade probably gets done.

[canbuffan34]

When he first became GM of the Bills, he was faced with the prospect of letting both Moulds and Wiley walk.  He paid Moulds.  So if TD thinks Clements is worth keeping, and Clements doesn't ask for the moon, TD will pay him.  If not, a trade probably gets done.

301311[/snapback]

I think he was smart enough to realize that if he had of let Moulds go he would have been publicly hung in the middle of downtown Buffalo!!

[BuffOrange]

I never knew Clements was one of our most beloved players.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the guy? Very good player, not great, not very smart, and he's a punk who looks like he should be playing for the early '90's Dolphins/Cowboys. If we're going to shell out big $ to retain a CB, I'd rather have given it to Winfield. Also, he only made the Pro Bowl because a couple of other CB's decided not to go - not that the Pro Bowl means anything anyway.

[Bill from NYC]

I never knew Clements was one of our most beloved players. 

Am I the only one who doesn't like the guy?  Very good player, not great, not very smart, and he's a punk who looks like he should be playing for the early '90's Dolphins/Cowboys.  If we're going to shell out big $ to retain a CB, I'd rather have given it to Winfield.  Also, he only made the Pro Bowl because a couple of other CB's decided not to go - not that the Pro Bowl means anything anyway.

301338[/snapback]

 

Wow. Imo, Clements is clearly superior to Winfield. Also, as a Bills fan, character does mean a lot to me, and after having watched each and every game Clements has appeared in since he joined the team, I am not seeing him as a "punk."

[col_forbin]

If we were to get the #9 pick, is the theory to pick a corner at that slot?? Is there a better option for us at #9 if we lose Clements?

[Coach Tuesday]

If we were to get the #9 pick, is the theory to pick a corner at that slot?? Is there a better option for us at #9 if we lose Clements?

301376[/snapback]

 

Alex Barron, OT

[d_wag]

Well....no.  Probably not.  Circumstances will dictate that, but we likely wont be able to resign willis, lee and JP if we give an 8 year 50 million dollar contract to NC (which isnt unreasonable at all)...Well it is...but thats about what the market will dictate.

 

i think all 4 can be locked up long-term, if the bills choose that path.........other teams have done that with their good young core and i don't think it's unreasonable for the bills to do the same.........for example, SD gave LT a huge extension last year, are paying brees over 8M for the '05 season, have rivers on the roster at another large cap charge, and also have jammer at CB on his rookie deal (which, if it's designed like MW's contract, is getting very hefty right now).......despite all of these large contracts, they are in excellent cap shape AND fielded a playoff team last year.......paying out large contracts to core players can be done and SD proves that.........

 

back to the original point, i was questioning the poster on his statement that just because nate wants to be paid he has to go.......is that due to an attutide that any player that becomes one of the best at his position with the bills and wants to be paid as such has to go? or is he weighing the position value and deems it expendable?.....there are a lot of variables at play, but i believe NC should be resigned (in fact, he should have been resigned "ala the eagles" two to three years before the expiration of his contract) because i believe physical young corners are hard to find......counter to that, i think willis should be tagged and traded at the expiration of his deal (although i don't think he'll see the end of his deal given his agent and his way of making trades happen) because i think RB's are easier to replace and i believe mcgahee's best years are his first 1-5 in the league.........many on this board would disagree with that, but i think TD would agree......

 

I would HATE to get rid of NC, but IMO he is not a top 5 corner, and is arguably top 10.  And is NOT worth 50 mil over 8 years.

 

it's not about what he is NOW -- it's about what he will be........and i think over the life of that deal he will be a top 5 corner......and that is what he is being paid for in those seasons.........

 

Whether or not you WANT him back next year is irrelavant.  He wont be back.  TD will not pay that kind of cash.  You need to come to terms with that.

 

i don't think he will either, but i'm also not willing to call it impossible.......if he does end up resigning comments like this will make you look very foolish.........

 

So the question is now, what do you do.

Option A) Keep him for 05, franchise him and try to play the trade game.  or.

Option B) Trade him now, select a PacMan Jones, Antrolle Rolle, or Mike Williams/Braylon Edwards and move on.

 

based on the premise TD won't be able to resign him, i would keep him for another year and work out a trade next season......i think it's foolish to bring in another player now who won't measure up to NC at all with this team on the brink of a playoff season...........but then again, i also think it's foolish to let him go at all when the bills have the cap room to resign him........

 

I think TD is wise to open the phone lines to offers on this one.

 

i think the lines are always open, on every player.......every GM in the league listens.........i would be shocked if any GM didn't listen to every offer.........