Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: Preferring Tyrod over Allen, or any of the top 5 QBs in that draft class, says a lot about your argument, and none of it is good. I never said such a thing
Coach Tuesday Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: And the production is about the same with a little more passing yards but a lot more turnovers. We drafted Allen to be the QB to take our offense to the next step, not the be what we already have been. We aren't any better now than we were in 2017 with Taylor and Dennison. You might want to take a look at 3rd down completion/1st down percentage. I can't dig up the stats right now but that's really where you should see a clear difference in Allen's favor.
Franco_92 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: So you want to go back to Tyrod? Tyrod was a 4 year vet and he had a more to work with. Allen was a rookie that started in week #2 of his career, with the worst OL in the league and no weapons, and he finished 5-6. He is 5--2 this year. He already has more 4th Quarter comebacks this year than Tyrod has in his career. I don't want to go back to Tyrod at all, and like Allen. I just answered the question Tyrod was 5-2 at one point in his last year here too Edited October 28, 2019 by arcane
Rocket94 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, row_33 said: i love them too, but they make it a severe burden 75% of the seasons.... Yes...very trying at times. I guess we don't realize how much they mean to us...Monday mornings can be rough after games like this. Edited October 28, 2019 by Rocket94 1
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: You might want to take a look at 3rd down completion/1st down percentage. I can't dig up the stats right now but that's really where you should see a clear difference in Allen's favor. Are you referring to our 3rd down conversion percentage? If so, you’d be very wrong. Edited October 28, 2019 by Bangarang
BillsVet Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, Dan said: Defenses have figured out the 2019 Bills Offense.... Its all short throws and runs. So they're, more and more, stacking the LOS and daring Allen to beat them deep. And he's not been capable of that. Perhaps more concerning is that we're hardly even trying to throw deep. Its really only a couple times each game. Is that on Allen or Daboll that they're not throwing deep? It's certainly on Allen that he's not getting the ball there. But, like all things you need more attempts to get into the rhythm. Either way the Bills need to stretch the field more or this season is going to get ugly. It's reminiscent of 2011. The Bills were 5-2 after beating Washington in Toronto and then played NYJ at home. That year, Chan had succeeded throwing short to mask Fitz's weak arm and it largely worked...until Rex and the Jets showed up. Rex had the defense interrupt those routes and Fitz had to throw intermediate and long passes which he lacked the arm strength and accuracy to complete. There are plenty of folks saying this is only one game, as if no one saw the successful gameplan Philadelphia employed yesterday. As for 2011, the Bills offense was never the same as the first half of the season and they skidded to a 6-10 finish. McD and his staff had better acclimate quick to counter what we saw yesterday and versus Miami. Because even the lesser teams are going to run hard up the middle until it doesn't work anymore.
row_33 Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, BillsVet said: It's reminiscent of 2011. The Bills were 5-2 after beating Washington in Toronto and then played NYJ at home. That year, Chan had succeeded throwing short to mask Fitz's weak arm and it largely worked...until Rex and the Jets showed up. Rex had the defense interrupt those routes and Fitz had to throw intermediate and long passes which he lacked the arm strength and accuracy to complete. There are plenty of folks saying this is only one game, as if no one saw the successful gameplan Philadelphia employed yesterday. As for 2011, the Bills offense was never the same as the first half of the season and they skidded to a 6-10 finish. McD and his staff had better acclimate quick to counter what we saw yesterday and versus Miami. Because even the lesser teams are going to run hard up the middle until it doesn't work anymore. That Skins team was the least prepared to take the field in my 5 decades of watching the NFL, that was so pitiful. But the show must go on. Can't outrightly bash a 5-2 team bobsledding towards 6-2....
BigPappy Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, row_33 said: gotta stop Allan running for his life after half a second dropping back.... Agreed. He needs to get better at pocket presents. He had a quite a few plays were he had a while to throw and just to off when there had been a receiver coming open. That said, i'm not sure that his running is the biggest issue at this point though. Feliciano is killing the offenses progress. He constantly is getting flagged for false starts, unnecessary roughness, holding...etc. He kills drives before they even start. Next, they need to stop starting Gore. He is old as F*** and should not be a full time RB. We definitely need another big receiver as well. The D will be fine. They just got gassed at the end of the game from playing to much.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BigPappy said: Agreed. He needs to get better at pocket presents. He had a quite a few plays were he had a while to throw and just to off when there had been a receiver coming open. That said, i'm not sure that his running is the biggest issue at this point though. Feliciano is killing the offenses progress. He constantly is getting flagged for false starts, unnecessary roughness, holding...etc. He kills drives before they even start. Next, they need to stop starting Gore. He is old as F*** and should not be a full time RB. We definitely need another big receiver as well. The D will be fine. They just got gassed at the end of the game from playing to much. Lets not throw out blanket statements. If you look at some highlights Josh DOES have pocket presence. He will step up into the pocket and he can escape from the pocket. Edit - Name 1 QB that has not been sacked from his blind side / Edit Again I must remind people that Jim Schwartz is NOT some hack. Edited October 28, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost 1
Dan Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, BillsVet said: It's reminiscent of 2011. The Bills were 5-2 after beating Washington in Toronto and then played NYJ at home. That year, Chan had succeeded throwing short to mask Fitz's weak arm and it largely worked...until Rex and the Jets showed up. Rex had the defense interrupt those routes and Fitz had to throw intermediate and long passes which he lacked the arm strength and accuracy to complete. There are plenty of folks saying this is only one game, as if no one saw the successful gameplan Philadelphia employed yesterday. As for 2011, the Bills offense was never the same as the first half of the season and they skidded to a 6-10 finish. McD and his staff had better acclimate quick to counter what we saw yesterday and versus Miami. Because even the lesser teams are going to run hard up the middle until it doesn't work anymore. I agree... I'm not ready to push the panic button. But, the last 2 weeks are the beginning of a trend. And the coaching staff is showing little ability to adapt or correct the problems on this team. There are are some glaring deficiencies in players. But there's also glaring deficiencies in the coaching and game planning. The fate of this season comes down to whether they can patch those holes sooner rather than later.
dakrider Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Dan said: Defenses have figured out the 2019 Bills Offense.... Its all short throws and runs. So they're, more and more, stacking the LOS and daring Allen to beat them deep. And he's not been capable of that. Perhaps more concerning is that we're hardly even trying to throw deep. Its really only a couple times each game. Is that on Allen or Daboll that they're not throwing deep? It's certainly on Allen that he's not getting the ball there. But, like all things you need more attempts to get into the rhythm. Either way the Bills need to stretch the field more or this season is going to get ugly. I think Allen can hit the 20-30 yard passes as well as anyone. He hasn't done well with the receiver running down the field in stride but hasn't had many of those plays either. However he can throw a 30 yard laser to a guy anywhere on the field. But the Bills aren't calling those plays very often and instead are simply going for the short pass. Even on plays the receiver going downfield is mostly to try and clear it underneath. But overall I agree with the premise the Bills offense is fairly predictable and their intentionally not trying to stretch the field. Bills and Allen are going to have to take more risks on offense and with that is going to include some mistakes as well. I sort of think the Bills coaching staff is intentionally holding Allen back to be more controlled, and then they'll greadually release him to make more plays downfield but in a more controlled manner than last year.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: Are you referring to our 3rd down conversion percentage? If so, you’d be very wrong. Really? I remember Tyrod's being almost historically bad. Anyone have access to the data?
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Really? I remember Tyrod's being almost historically bad. Anyone have access to the data? Allen 2019: 34% - 23rd 2018: 31% - 30th (He did not play the entire year obviously) Tyrod 2017: 41% - 9th 2016: 40% - 13th 2015: 37% - 19th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2016-02-08 Again, this is 3rd down conversion percentage as an offense. If that’s what you meant.
Boatdrinks Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: What is Allen's rush per attempt this year as compared to last? It certainly seems as if the opposition is taking his running ability away a lot more this year than last and making him play QB. I think it’s a concerted effort by the team to have him play more from the pocket, more than anything defenses are doing. Don’t you think defenses were trying to make a rookie “ play QB” last season ? A QB that plays the style that Allen played last year is likely to have a shorter NFL career. They want him throwing from the pocket, not taking off on long runs.
Bangarang Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: Really? I remember Tyrod's being almost historically bad. Anyone have access to the data? If you're looking for QB performance on 3rd down specifically... Allen 2019: 30/50, 383 yards, 60% completion, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 94 QB rating. 10 rushes for 46 yards and 0 TDs 2018: 40/93, 508 yards, 46% completion, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 49 QB rating. 25 rushes for 122 yards and 0 TDs Tyrod 2017: 87/131, 907 yards, 66% completion, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 92 QB rating. 34 rushes for 214 yards and 1 rushing TD. 2016: 66/118, 828 yards, 58% completion, 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 87 QB rating. 23 rushes for 134 yards and 2 rushing TDs. 2015: 61/85, 820 yards, 71% completion, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 117 QB rating. 21 rushes for 137 yards and 1 rushing TD.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: If you're looking for QB performance on 3rd down specifically... Allen 2019: 30/50, 383 yards, 60% completion, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 94 QB rating. 10 rushes for 46 yards and 0 TDs 2018: 40/93, 508 yards, 46% completion, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 49 QB rating. 25 rushes for 122 yards and 0 TDs Tyrod 2017: 87/131, 907 yards, 66% completion, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 92 QB rating. 34 rushes for 214 yards and 1 rushing TD. 2016: 66/118, 828 yards, 58% completion, 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 87 QB rating. 23 rushes for 134 yards and 2 rushing TDs. 2015: 61/85, 820 yards, 71% completion, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 117 QB rating. 21 rushes for 137 yards and 1 rushing TD. Huh. For some reason I have it in my head that on third and long specifically, Tyrod's #s were almost historically bad, and Allen's are significantly better. I'll do my best to dig up the stats.
Beast Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: I think it’s a concerted effort by the team to have him play more from the pocket, more than anything defenses are doing. Don’t you think defenses were trying to make a rookie “ play QB” last season ? A QB that plays the style that Allen played last year is likely to have a shorter NFL career. They want him throwing from the pocket, not taking off on long runs. Yeah, in fact I do believe that DC's are forcing Allen into being a thrower and trying to take his running game away. I believe it is more than obvious to most that the results show just that.
KollegeStudnet Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 Every team has a back to reality game. The Eagles were the hungrier team. They were embarrassed from the Dallas game. Hope this team feels the same and beats the Skins.
Boatdrinks Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Yeah, in fact I do believe that DC's are forcing Allen into being a thrower and trying to take his running game away. I believe it is more than obvious to most that the results show just that. So you ( and thereby you believe the Bills ) want Allen running all over the place like last season ? Just that defenses are taking away what the Bills are trying to do with Allen ? That’s a very interesting take, I will give you that. I recall that the consensus was that kind of quarterbacking won’t work in the NFL and the QB doing so will probably have their career shortened due to injury. I’d bet most NFL observers would suggest the Bills want Allen to be a pocket QB, and the results show just that. Edited October 28, 2019 by Boatdrinks
Beast Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: So you ( and thereby you believe the Bills ) want Allen running all over the place like last season ? Just that defenses are taking away what the Bills are trying to do with Allen ? That’s a very interesting take, I will give you that. I recall that the consensus was that kind of quarterbacking won’t work in the NFL and the QB doing so will probably have their career shortened due to injury. I’d bet most NFL observers would suggest the Bills want Allen to be a pocket QB, and the results show just that. OK, let me explain it sloooooooowwwwwwly. Last year, Allen did a lot of damage to defenses with his running ability. DC's seeing that, and not having a reason to fear Allen and his passing game, have taken away his running game away. That leading to low scoring outputs. It's actually pretty simple. Allen has had very few uncontested runs like he had last year. l Edited October 28, 2019 by Binghamton Beast
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