frostbitmic Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 The draft is big money for the NFL and the way the system is now is fine. Tanking only costs the team money as no one shows up to their games or buys their merchandise.
fansince88 Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 I just had French Vanilla ice cream with REAL NYS Maple syrup on it. Thats the best. Prove me wrong!
ThurmasThoman Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 My fix for every league's draft. Are you sitting down? Are your breasts secure? Are you ready for this? Ok... if you say so. I'm warning you though, once you read it, it's going to be so obviously correct and elegant that you're going to be mad the leagues don't do it. At the moment a team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they are moved to a new "standings" board, with a record of 0-0. This new standings is called the "Draft Standings", and just like the "Playoff Standings", teams shoot to be in first place. You want to win games if you're on the "Draft Standings" board, just like you want to win games if you're on the "Playoff Standings" board. Teams that are BAD--like Miami this year--will be eliminated from playoff contention early. So they may start 0-9, and have 7 games to play on the "Draft Standings" board. A good team that JUST misses the playoffs in week 17 will have zero games to play on the "Draft Standings" board. A slightly better team may have 1 game. But the team eliminated with 7 games to go should theoretically be bad enough that they won't win that much... and a team that is eliminated with 1 week to go is theoretically that much better that they might win the last week of the season. Tie breakers on the "Draft Standings" board will revert to the normal standings, so out of 2 teams with 1 "Draft Standings" win, one with a 4-12 overall record, and one with a 9-7 overall record, the team with the BETTER normal standings record would win the tiebreaker and get the higher pick. This incentivizes winning all year long--so if your team is eliminated, you're still hoping they win every Sunday so you can move up the draft board.
KD in CA Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Cuboirs said: Call the NBA they seem to have fixed it Oh I'm sure they've 'fixed' it. Keep this nonsense away from the NFL please. People go on and on with this 'tanking' crap but you can't tell me guys aren't trying to beat the man across from them when they step on the field.
White Linen Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 They shouldn't make any changes and I certainly wouldn't want what the NHL has for the NFL.
Mr. WEO Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, White Linen said: They shouldn't make any changes and I certainly wouldn't want what the NHL has for the NFL. Obscure TV coverage and no national interest? 1
White Linen Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Obscure TV coverage and no national interest? Exactly 1
Rochesterfan Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said: At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode. If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do? The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.) How about this for a concept: 1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it. This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system. 2. Install an auction style system in its place. Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget. Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250. Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes. By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players. I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round. Any thoughts? Absolutely hate this. I actually think you have created a bigger issue and an incentive to tank. Additionally - I think the NFLPA would hate this. You are incentivizing salary and veteran player dumping. You have basically made it so teams that are paying players have a significantly reduced chance at getting young cheap talent. Teams that are losing would be looking to dump as much salary as possible to increase the amount they can spend in the draft. Have a veteran RB at 1 million a season - get rid of him so you can buy an extra player. Plus without a known draft pick - how are teams trading - are you trading open money slots? You want to fix the tanking problem - create a lottery - and not like the whimpy NHL or NBA lottery. Assign points based on point differential, wins, and include wild card teams if you want. You must also get a minimum of 1 win to even have a shot at an early pick. Zero wins and you are automatically slotted at 23rd in the draft just in front of the division winners that go in playoff order - 24 through Super Bowl champs. An 8-8 team with a + 32 point differential would be given a much higher shot at the first pick than a 1-15 team with - 75 point differential. You can give percentages for each win and every 10 positive points. So the 8-8 might have 10X higher chance of getting the pick. It would make teams compete to be good and teams would not want to just dump players for picks because you have no idea where teams will end up. Miami would not get rid of all of the players because it hurts their draft position and Houston would want to be more careful because if then end up doing well, but not winning the division- they might be trading the number 1 pick. In reality I do not have an issue with tanking yet, but there are better ways to fix the issue.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 Nothing needs to change. The NFL isnt the NBA or NHL or MLB. The entire system is different and unique. From the farm systems, to roster impacts, to player development, to talent volume. Everything is different in the NFL. Trying to cram a draft structure that worked in another league into the NFL, just to solve a truly non-problem of tanking (which also works differently in the NFL than any other league), would only create more problems than it solves. Worst goes first. Simple and effective in an already over-complicated league. 1
Zerovoltz Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 The Zerovoltz solution: Have the teams that qualify for the playoffs continue to be seeded as they currently are. super bowl winner is 32, super bowl runner up is 31, and so on. Have the team that had the best record, but failed to make the playoffs pick 1st. Then the next best team that failed to make the playoffs pick 2nd....and so on. This provides incentive to keep trying to win, even in week 17 and no matter who you are. 1
KD in CA Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Nothing needs to change. The NFL isnt the NBA or NHL or MLB. The entire system is different and unique. From the farm systems, to roster impacts, to player development, to talent volume. Everything is different in the NFL. Trying to cram a draft structure that worked in another league into the NFL, just to solve a truly non-problem of tanking (which also works differently in the NFL than any other league), would only create more problems than it solves. Worst goes first. Simple and effective in an already over-complicated league. Thank you. I hate people who invent problems that don’t exist. Unless someone can point out how the scourge of ‘tanking’ has harmed the NFL. 1
Mark80 Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Something about auctioning off a majority black player base on a stage just doesn't seem right to me. Call me crazy. I always thought they should just give the team that finishes in 13th place (best non-playoff team) the #1 overall pick, then 14th gets #2, etc. and the playoff teams still go last. Then everyone is always to trying to finish as high as possible. Edited October 25, 2019 by Mark80 1
Royale with Cheese Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 I think a 5 team lottery makes sense. But make the odds equal for the #1.
Thurman#1 Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 There really is no tanking in the NFL. It's a basketball word. Coaches and players are highly highly incentivized in every way to give everything they've got. The last thing they want to do is leave bad film behind. There's no tanking. There is rebuilding. And there's nothing wrong with it.
Thurman#1 Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Nothing needs to change. The NFL isnt the NBA or NHL or MLB. The entire system is different and unique. From the farm systems, to roster impacts, to player development, to talent volume. Everything is different in the NFL. Trying to cram a draft structure that worked in another league into the NFL, just to solve a truly non-problem of tanking (which also works differently in the NFL than any other league), would only create more problems than it solves. Worst goes first. Simple and effective in an already over-complicated league. Yup. Edited October 25, 2019 by Thurman#1
LabattBlue Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said: At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode. If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do? The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.) How about this for a concept: 1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it. This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system. 2. Install an auction style system in its place. Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget. Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250. Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes. By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players. I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round. Any thoughts? So they should have a fantasy football auction style draft like you and your friends do? Ummm...how about no.
Thurman#1 Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: The whole thing is, there is no proof that deliberately tanking actually works in the NFL. It didn’t really work in Cleveland. There’s not telling it will work in Miami. In less teams have success I don’t think they change it Hunh? I mean, you're using the wrong word, it's doing a total rebuild, not tanking. But Cleveland has a long way to go before we can say this didn't work for them. They could easily be terrific next year. Or not. Dunno. But what you prove by pointing out teams whose rebuild failed isn't that rebuilding doesn't work. It's that sometimes rebuilding doesn't work. Which I think everyone is aware of. There are plenty of cases where it worked. And plenty where it didn't. And as for the guy who said fans hate rebuilding ... well, yeah. Thing is, fans also hate reloading mediocre teams year after year after year and producing more mediocrity. The Bills managed that for most of the playoff drought, but also rebuilt two times unsuccessfully. Either strategy can fail. But if your rebuild gets you a good QB, you've drastically upgraded your chances at being competitive.
GunnerBill Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Jigsaw2112 said: At this point it's obvious what the Dolphins are doing, and a few other teams are definitely in yard sale mode. If the league wants to prevent teams from sandbagging themselves for a high draft pick, what are they to do? The current system rewards failure, but middling teams who could make the leap with high end talent end up stuck on the 6 to 8 win treadmill (As we Bills fans know all too well.) How about this for a concept: 1. In 4 years, eliminate the draft as we know it. This will work all the traded picks that currently exist out of the system. 2. Install an auction style system in its place. Every team already has a salary cap, so every team would still have a budget. Since we basically spend 4 months ranking these guys anyway, develop a consensus computer ranking system 1-250. Have the same show on draft weekend, starting with the #1 guy, but every team with cash to spend can bid on who they need, one player at a time, just focus on the player instead of the drafting team for 15 minutes. By doing this there's no incentive to fail, you still have to spend wisely, and the fans still have hope that their team can get quality players. I believe the NFL could make a good show of it, and with all the cap rules currently in place a team couldn't just dump all their guys and buy half the first round. Any thoughts? Let's leave it the same. 1
ALF Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 A fire sale to tank for a QB is a big risk . Takes too long to build a OL to give a QB a chance to develop . Rosen hasn't had a chance so far.
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