Guest average Joe Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 Schobel's sack numbers are very misleading. He picked up several against weak opponents and virtually NONE when it counted against good teams or good tackles. Sure he was overpaid, but the really BIG mistake would be to give Pat Williams big money at his age. At least Schobel is younger. Sign Jennings, say thanks and goodbye to big Pat. I'm sure he can still play but you can't keep everybody under the cap and he wants big money. New England has made many cuts of older players who were ready to be overpaid and they didn't overpay! It is the proper way to succeed in today's NFL imho.
stuckincincy Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 That's where the inability of Gildon to even make the team should be worrysome. 22407[/snapback] Indeed. I think the fall-back is Posey. Look for Mario Haggen to get some playing time.
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 No they're not. And solid organizations spend high draft picks on them on a regular basis. Past Super Bowl caliber teams like New England, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and Baltimore know this quite well. You draft a solid defensive lineman in the first round and you lock him up for 5-6 years at a palatable rookie figure. That's why instead of drafting Lee Evans in a draft filled with WR talent, I feel we should have gone after Will Smith or Udeze. They are as good if not better than Schobel and can be had for much, much cheaper. 22377[/snapback] This post is total BS, opinion or not. You have no idea if Smith or Udeze are even 1/2 as good as AS because AS is the only one with ANY track record in the NFL. AS has improved each season (see above info) and certainly would have gone (as is ALWAYS the case) for more $ on the open market.
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 This post is total BS, opinion or not. You have no idea if Smith or Udeze are even 1/2 as good as AS because AS is the only one with ANY track record in the NFL. AS has improved each season (see above info) and certainly would have gone (as is ALWAYS the case) for more $ on the open market. 22426[/snapback] Is Evans going to be the 3d WR?
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 Schobel's sack numbers are very misleading. He picked up several against weak opponents and virtually NONE when it counted against good teams or good tackles. Sure he was overpaid, but the really BIG mistake would be to give Pat Williams big money at his age. At least Schobel is younger. Sign Jennings, say thanks and goodbye to big Pat. I'm sure he can still play but you can't keep everybody under the cap and he wants big money. New England has made many cuts of older players who were ready to be overpaid and they didn't overpay! It is the proper way to succeed in today's NFL imho. 22415[/snapback] If this is true , then every guy who gets double digit sacks falls into your same convenient forced statistical category.
eball Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 stop the madness! i can't read this crap any longer! how about everyone adopt a code next to his or her member name so we'll know into which of these camps you fall: a -- love donahoe and every move he makes b -- respect donahoe as a very good GM but think it's fair to debate and critique his decisions rationally c -- hate donahoe; he sucks and everything he has done is stevestojan it will make it much easier to determine which threads and posts to read, and which ones to ignore. thanks for your cooperation.
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 Is Evans going to be the 3d WR? 22430[/snapback] Que?
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 stop the madness! i can't read this crap any longer! how about everyone adopt a code next to his or her member name so we'll know into which of these camps you fall: a -- love donahoe and every move he makes b -- respect donahoe as a very good GM but think it's fair to debate and critique his decisions rationally c -- hate donahoe; he sucks and everything he has done is stevestojan it will make it much easier to determine which threads and posts to read, and which ones to ignore. thanks for your cooperation. 22433[/snapback] I don't see what this has to do with loving TD or not. Just the facts baby.....
stuckincincy Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 Is Evans going to be the 3d WR? 22430[/snapback] I'd think so. He had a nice college career, and both management and fans want to see 1st rounders get some playing time. When all is said and done, pro football is show biz.
CoachChuckDickerson Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 No they're not. And solid organizations spend high draft picks on them on a regular basis. Past Super Bowl caliber teams like New England, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and Baltimore know this quite well. You draft a solid defensive lineman in the first round and you lock him up for 5-6 years at a palatable rookie figure. That's why instead of drafting Lee Evans in a draft filled with WR talent, I feel we should have gone after Will Smith or Udeze. They are as good if not better than Schobel and can be had for much, much cheaper. 22377[/snapback] Please don't state you opinion as fact. I suggest you check the draft records of the teams you just quoted.
todd Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 That's an insane amount of money for an average DE. 22283[/snapback] Actually, it isn't. Check out the rest of the thread, and note the signing bonus. Much lower. That means if we need to cut him, the remainder of the amortized bonus that would hit the cap is minimal compared to others. Not only that, the salary itself is probably backloaded, so when you look at the total amount of the contract, rather than the average per year, it's actually quite sane. It's a damn good deal for the Bills. Salary-cap friendly and pays decent RDE money to a ABOVE AVERAGE RDE. I don't know how you figure double-digit sacks as average.
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 Actually, it isn't. Check out the rest of the thread, and note the signing bonus. Much lower. That means if we need to cut him, the remainder of the amortized bonus that would hit the cap is minimal compared to others. Not only that, the salary itself is probably backloaded, so when you look at the total amount of the contract, rather than the average per year, it's actually quite sane. It's a damn good deal for the Bills. Salary-cap friendly and pays decent RDE money to a ABOVE AVERAGE RDE. I don't know how you figure double-digit sacks as average. 22489[/snapback] IMO, sacks are an overrated statistic. Sticking to the team I know best, the Patriots haven't had a 10-sack man in either of their SB years. For instance, Richard Seymour or Aaron Schobel: Schobel has more sacks, but who would you rather have? The deal isn't crippling to the Bills should Schobel struggle, so TD has that going for him... which is nice. Who would you rather have - I'm asking, don't know the answer to this: Ogunleye or Schobel?
todd Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 IMO, sacks are an overrated statistic. Sticking to the team I know best, the Patriots haven't had a 10-sack man in either of their SB years. For instance, Richard Seymour or Aaron Schobel: Schobel has more sacks, but who would you rather have? The deal isn't crippling to the Bills should Schobel struggle, so TD has that going for him... which is nice. Who would you rather have - I'm asking, don't know the answer to this: Ogunleye or Schobel? 22494[/snapback] I'd rather have Schoebel than Seymour. Pats are built differently than the Bills. Schoebel was on a defense that was pretty good, and he was a key part of it. I'd rather have Schobel than ogun because His production has been improving over a period of time - even when on bad defenses. Ogun is still an unknown - he had one good year.
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 I agree with Todd on OGun, though I'd rather have Seymour than AS. He's one of the best in the game right now. And Foxboro, don't think that you're breaking news to all of us when you mention that sacks aren't everything. AS is not good ONLY because of sacks. There are plenty of us here who have either played the game and/or have a fairly deep understanding of it.
Foxboro Mike Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 I agree with Todd on OGun, though I'd rather have Seymour than AS. He's one of the best in the game right now. And Foxboro, don't think that you're breaking news to all of us when you mention that sacks aren't everything. AS is not good ONLY because of sacks. There are plenty of us here who have either played the game and/or have a fairly deep understanding of it. 22511[/snapback] I love it when you guys talk down to me. Todd - Schobel over Seymour? Are you serious?!?
BillsSouth Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 Based on last year´s performance, I´d rather have OGun or Seymour over Schobel, but that is unimportant. He is what we have, and he is the best DE on the roster. Good job signing him.
34-78-83 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 I love it when you guys talk down to me. Todd - Schobel over Seymour? Are you serious?!? 22517[/snapback] Talk down to you???? Look in the Mirror my friend. I was simply defending some of my board mates here is that ok?
LabattBlue Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 I'd rather have Schoebel than Seymour. Pats are built differently than the Bills. Schoebel was on a defense that was pretty good, and he was a key part of it. I'd rather have Schobel than ogun because His production has been improving over a period of time - even when on bad defenses. Ogun is still an unknown - he had one good year. 22503[/snapback] Todd, I think Schobel still has room to improve especially in getting caught going to far in the backfield anticipating a pass, when in turn it is a running play, but overall a good signing for the Bills. But..............................and this is just my opinion, Seymour is one of the top5 DL in the game today. He is a man among boys who can play both DT & DE and will be an All Pro for many years to come. I'd give up Schobel & Denney and then some to get my hands on Seymour. He's that good.
HarkinBanks Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 I think Seymour over Schobel is a no brainer, Seymour is one of the best in the league no doubt. The question is what he will get paid when his contract is up? Will the Pats pony up to keep him or is he gone? Then you can have a true comparison between the decision TD made on Schobel and the Pats' philosophy about not overpaying players.
Rayzer32 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 IMO, sacks are an overrated statistic. Sticking to the team I know best, the Patriots haven't had a 10-sack man in either of their SB years. For instance, Richard Seymour or Aaron Schobel: Schobel has more sacks, but who would you rather have? The deal isn't crippling to the Bills should Schobel struggle, so TD has that going for him... which is nice. Who would you rather have - I'm asking, don't know the answer to this: Ogunleye or Schobel? 22494[/snapback] This is just stupid. Are we third graders now. (In a high pitched whiny voice) who would you rather have??? Yeah, well my dad can beat your dad up!!! Take that!!
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