Is Star Lotulelei A Liability on the DL?

[dave mcbride]

23 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You have it backwards.   His worth to McD last year was to provide veteran presence for The Process.   Few people compliment him for his play, but he's nearly unanimously praised for his locker room presence and his influence on the young kids.

 

I can make an argument that the Process is now fully baked in, there's less of a need for Star's locker room presence, especially when his play on the field is slipping.

The thing I'd worry about if I'm worried about culture is appearing to favor one of your guys who starts every game, gets paid a LOT of money, but makes absolutely no plays. He literally hasn't done anything this season in the playmaking dept., and he did virtually nothing last season either. As a baseline, the NFL players on the field are there because of their ability to make plays. Lotuleilei has 3 tackles, 3 assists, no TFLs, no pressures, and no sacks through 6 games, and he has started all of them. And it's not just the numbers -- he's basically a barely visible and slowly moving slab of flesh in the middle of the TV screen on virtually every play.  He's not disruptive at all. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Chandler#81]

18 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

sure because if Star’s contract could we have signed a better OC or WR last year if we didn’t have that initial Star Contract?  
 

So you are gonna sit there and tell me is isn’t overpaid for what he offers?

It sure did last year didn’t it

Well, I’ll try, though I know how fruitless it will be by your posting history.

 

The VERY moment Free Agency began in March, ‘17, Star became a Buffalo Bill. He was the 1st year HC’s top choice in turning around a moribund franchise. (Share this Hot Tip with the kids at the table! They’ll think your cool!?) Did we overpay for him? He was the primary choice of the brand new regime. So, no. It’s what happens on Day 1 of FA. Are the Bills suffering in Cap Hell because of it? 

Thats a rhetorical question as your opinion has no bearing.

Now sit down, have a cookie & some juice and don’t bother the other kids. 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, I’ll try, though I know how fruitless it will be by your posting history.

 

The VERY moment Free Agency began in March, ‘17, Star became a Buffalo Bill. He was the 1st year HC’s top choice in turning around a moribund franchise. (Share this Hot Tip with the kids at the table! They’ll think your cool!?) Did we overpay for him? He was the primary choice of the brand new regime. So, no. It’s what happens on Day 1 of FA. Are the Bills suffering in Cap Hell because of it? 

Thats a rhetorical question as your opinion has no bearing.

Now sit down, have a cookie & some juice and don’t bother the other kids. 

ahhh love reading you god complex posts while saying others have a specific posting history. Hypocrisy at its finest but I am not a Mod so I will be nice to the one that has that superiority complex. 
 

and what is my posting history calling out under performing players?

Edited October 24, 2019 by MAJBobby

[r00tabaga]

His contract is well within our budget and it's not like he's affecting us signing other players and besides it's not our money so what's the big deal?

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Through 4 games he did. But it started in Tennessee and it carried on against Miami. There has been Jordan Phillips at the 1 tech and there were snaps where both Phillips and Oliver were out there in both games - not that surprising on obvious passing downs but it has started to happen on early downs too. 

 

When a number of us were commenting in the offseason about the disappointing level of Star's play we were told we just didn't understand his role on the defense. But that was rubbish. I know his role. I know he isn't there for pressures and sacks but even the things he is supposed to be good at he was below average in 2018.

 

The response then was "McDermott and Beane don't agree with you message board GMs because he is still getting plenty of time on the field." 

 

Well guess what? His time on the field has reduced markedly this season. So now maybe Beane and McDermott do agree? Oliver, Phillips and Harrison have all significantly outplayed him. Star's Bills future is in jeopardy make no mistake.

Hes been a really interesting one to follow fan reaction on...

 

it feels like there’s a big segment that likes to feel like they get it by pointing out he shouldn’t have a huge stat line. But I think most of them haven’t really watched him and are mostly chirping talking points not analysis.

[GG]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The thing I'd worry about if I'm worried about culture is about favoring a guy who starts every game, gets paid a LOT of money, but makes absolutely no plays. He literally hasn't done anything this season in the playmaking dept., and he did virtually nothing last season either. As a baseline, the NFL players on the field are there because of their ability to make plays. Lotuleilei has 3 tackles, 3 assists, no TFLs, no pressures, and no sacks through 6 games, and he has started all of them. And it's not just the numbers -- he's basically a barely visible and slowly moving slab of flesh in the middle of the TV screen on virtually every play. 

 

I wouldn't go to that extreme.  He's rarely going to show up in the stat sheet, for sure.  But he's made a few good plays in run support.  Definitely nowhere near his contract value, though.  He's still there because there's literally no one behind him and costs too much to get rid of.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why does saying a player sucks offend you? 

 

I don't know...why did it bother you so much when people said Tyrod sucked?

[r00tabaga]

Kyle loved working with Star and Harry's mentioned on multiple occasions that he's helped mentor him as a young player so maybe his value goes beyond the stat line...His contract is well within our budget and it's not like he's affecting us signing other players and besides it's not our money so what's the big deal?

[BillsVet]

32 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Star's contract isn't keeping us from signing anyone, it shouldn't bother anyone in the least.

 

It's not helping either.  Remember Doug "Dead Cap" Whaley?  Well, Star's deal would fit it most appropriately, except it was signed by the current regime.

 

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I specifically said Star is overpaid in previous posts and never alluded to it wasn't a bad contract.

 

Is this still some straight up TBD surface level analysis?

 

Yes, your analysis is surface level.  He's not the player they signed last year. .

 

4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, I’ll try, though I know how fruitless it will be by your posting history.

 

The VERY moment Free Agency began in March, ‘17, Star became a Buffalo Bill. He was the 1st year HC’s top choice in turning around a moribund franchise. (Share this Hot Tip with the kids at the table! They’ll think your cool!?) Did we overpay for him? He was the primary choice of the brand new regime. So, no. It’s what happens on Day 1 of FA. Are the Bills suffering in Cap Hell because of it? 

Thats a rhetorical question as your opinion has no bearing.

Now sit down, have a cookie & some juice and don’t bother the other kids. 

 

Star was signed in March 2018 and most definitely not McD's first choice to bring on. 

 

McBeane receive credit for doing a total tear-down of the roster and eliminating all bad contracts but accepted the dead cap that came with it.  Yet, this signing is going to result in some dead cap next year because he's not even close to playing to his contract. 

 

As to your response in the final line here, I would expect a moderator to show better civility as an example to the rest of the board. 

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's not helping either.  Remember Doug "Dead Cap" Whaley?  Well, Star's deal would fit it most appropriately, except it was signed by the current regime.

 

 

Yes, your analysis is surface level.  He's not the player they signed last year. .

 

 

Star was signed in March 2018 and most definitely not McD's first choice to bring on. 

 

McBeane receive credit for doing a total tear-down of the roster and eliminating all bad contracts but accepted the dead cap that came with it.  Yet, this signing is going to result in some dead cap next year because he's not even close to playing to his contract. 

 

As to your response in the final line here, I would expect a moderator to show better civility as an example to the rest of the board. 

You’re right. I’m wrong. I apologize.

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Looks like after next season...

 

Year		Age	Base Salary	Signing	Roster	Workout	Cap Hit	Dead Cap	Yearly Cash
2018		28	$3,500,000	$2,600,000	$500,000	$100,000	$6,700,000	$18,600,000	$17,100,000($17,100,000)
2019		29	$7,150,000	$2,600,000	$1,500,000	$250,000	$11,500,000	$18,800,000	$8,900,000($26,000,000)
2020		30	$6,250,000	$2,600,000	$1,000,000	$250,000	$10,100,000	$7,800,000	$7,500,000($33,500,000)
Potential Out: 2021, 3 yr, $33,500,000; $5,200,000 dead cap
2021		31	$6,500,000	$2,600,000	$1,500,000	$250,000	$10,850,000	$5,200,000	$8,250,000($41,750,000)
2022		32	$6,500,000	$2,600,000	$1,500,000	$250,000	$10,850,000	$2,600,000	$8,250,000($50,000,000)

This is when he goes. Right now he is decent but very much overpaid and we all know it. Still don’t know why Beane spent that much on him. 

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, I’ll try, though I know how fruitless it will be by your posting history.

 

The VERY moment Free Agency began in March, ‘17, Star became a Buffalo Bill. He was the 1st year HC’s top choice in turning around a moribund franchise. (Share this Hot Tip with the kids at the table! They’ll think your cool!?) Did we overpay for him? He was the primary choice of the brand new regime. So, no. It’s what happens on Day 1 of FA. Are the Bills suffering in Cap Hell because of it? 

Thats a rhetorical question as your opinion has no bearing.

Now sit down, have a cookie & some juice and don’t bother the other kids. 

I feel like a lot of posters pointed at cap hell last year. 
 

it’s not the end of the world but feels like he was a mistake and fair to point that out. We traded for KB too and he wasn’t a great one despite the regime knowing him well. I think it’s not a particularly hot take to say keeping dareus til this offseason and spending on a better WR and possibly even getting an upgrade on OL would have been nice for a team drafting a qb.

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

You’re right. I’m wrong. I apologize.

 

We can all do better, myself included. 

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

Yes, your analysis is surface level.  He's not the player they signed last year. 

 

You misinterpreted my comment and it looks like you're doing it again.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Hes been a really interesting one to follow fan reaction on...

 

it feels like there’s a big segment that likes to feel like they get it by pointing out he shouldn’t have a huge stat line. But I think most of them haven’t really watched him and are mostly chirping talking points not analysis.

He's still an automatic double team and if not he's going to walk his guy backward more often than not. Whether fans recognize the value of a Lotulelei type player is immaterial imo. Gettleman knows how to draft for defensive line, and McDermott needed to keep Kuechly/Davis and now Edmunds/Milano clean. 

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's not helping either.  Remember Doug "Dead Cap" Whaley?  Well, Star's deal would fit it most appropriately, except it was signed by the current regime.

 

 

Yes, your analysis is surface level.  He's not the player they signed last year. .

 

 

Star was signed in March 2018 and most definitely not McD's first choice to bring on. 

 

McBeane receive credit for doing a total tear-down of the roster and eliminating all bad contracts but accepted the dead cap that came with it.  Yet, this signing is going to result in some dead cap next year because he's not even close to playing to his contract. 

 

As to your response in the final line here, I would expect a moderator to show better civility as an example to the rest of the board. 

So my statement is correct. His contract is not keeping us from signing anyone. We could sign AJ Green if we wanted to, or anyone else they think would help. Beane knows a lot more than anyone here on what he's doing. I doubt he's pissed with Star. We're a top rated defense and Star is playing his part, especially with Phillips out. 

[BillsfaninSB]

I have to believe if he were a liability he would be not playing for this team right now. 

[billsfan89]

Star is overpaid but he does play a role on the D-line in an effective manner. I think you could get a player to do that grinder type role for cheaper but McD knew Star and knew he fit his system and could do the task he needed at an effective level. I think overall he isn't a liability more or less just a highly paid but effective role player. 

[Bronxbomber21]

Star was getting pushed around all game i watch the replay last night and i was going to make a thread just like this

[Bronxbomber21]

Why is it that every player that has been brought in from Carolina are disappointments KB, Star, Captin, Tolbert that wr i thought they new what they were getting....