whatdrought Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said: K. Allen >>>>all of them K. Allen over Mike Evans?... 1
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Would they get a 3rd if he leaves in free agency? A low third. They can do better than that, though, provided he's healthy. He's an elite player still.
ngbills Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Of names being mentioned around the league: AJ Green DeVante Parker Melvin Gordon OJ Howard Shaq Barrett Edited October 23, 2019 by ngbills
Reed83HOF Posted October 23, 2019 Author Posted October 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, whatdrought said: K. Allen over Mike Evans?... YUP Route running: It's hard to argue against Allen being the best route runner in the league. Allen has elite, short-area quickness that allows him to create separation at the top of the route, whether he's in the slot or on the perimeter. According Next Gen Stats, over half of Allen's receptions came on passes where he created at least 3 yards of separation. That's impressive. "I get open against any coverage," Allen said. "I don't see anybody covering, or no two people covering me." For me, Brown also has to be in the conversation because he consistently creates separation, particularly with his ability to get off press coverage. I also like Doug Baldwin of the Seattle Seahawks. Hands: Hard to go with anyone other than Larry Fitzgerald here. In the last three years, according to ESPN Stats & Information, Fitzgerald has 325 receptions for 3,394 receiving yards and 21 touchdowns, and just six drops. Brown also is impressive with just eight drops over the past three seasons. Allen had six drops just in 2017. Run after catch: According to ESPN Stats & Information, Detroit Lions receiver Golden Tate leads the league in yards after the catch over the last three seasons with 1,764. Miami Dolphins receiver Jarvis Landry (1,719) is second, followed by Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce in a surprise third (1,580). Last season, Tate led all receivers with 629 yards after the catch. Allen was third with 513 yards. Both Tate and Allen are similar in that they are like running backs once they catch the ball out in open space and consistently make defenders miss. Beckham also belongs in the conversation, but I'll take Tate here. Chargers wide receiver Keenan Allen has been the NFL’s most productive pass catcher this season, and it isn’t even close. Allen has a league-leading 29 catches, a league-leading 404 receiving yards, a league-leading 20 receiving first downs and a league-leading eight catches of 20 yards or more. The 27-year-old Allen has made the Pro Bowl each of the last two years, but his big start this year has him on pace for the best season of his career, by far. He has at least eight catches and at least 98 receiving yards in all three games this season. Allen is, through three games, the best receiver in the league. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-keenan-allens-unmatched-route-running-skillset-is-easily-one-of-the-nfls-best It’s no secret that Allen has been one of the NFL’s most potent route-runners in recent years, and he’s often doing it against opposing teams’ No. 1 cornerback. It doesn’t always work out in Allen’s favor, though. New England Patriots cornerback Stephon Gilmore held him to one reception on five targets (granted, it did go for a touchdown), and Cincinnati Bengals corner William Jackson III limited Allen to one catch on three targets for one yard. When Allen gets going, though, he’s nearly unstoppable. Against the Baltimore Ravens’ Jimmy Smith, the Denver Broncos’ Chris Harris Jr. and the Pittsburgh Steelers’ Joe Haden — all considered to have at least shared the responsibility of being their respective team’s No. 1 corner in 2018 — Allen was ruthless. To the tune of 12 catches on 15 combined targets against the trio, he racked up 143 yards and two touchdowns. The point is, you don’t have to watch much film before finding a clip of Allen turning a defensive back around or darting past them at the line of scrimmage with his innate quickness. In PFF’s prototypical wide receivers list, Allen was tabbed as the NFL’s model route-runner due to his unmatched ability to create separation and then produce on those plays. On routes when Allen had at least a step of separation or more during the 2018 regular season, he caught the fourth-most first downs (51), produced the third-most yards per route run (3.6) and had the highest completion percentage (93.8%). In nearly every meaningful category relating to route-running, Allen was near the top.
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Would they get a 3rd if he leaves in free agency? If I were GB, I'd trade a 2nd and 3rd for Green (and possibly a first only). They are really good this season, and in my opinion one elite receiver away from being unstoppable on offense. With Rodgers, it's all about winning a SB NOW. You don't think about next year. 1
Bill from NYC Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: A low third. They can do better than that, though, provided he's healthy. He's an elite player still. How many years are left on his contract? How is his health? If he IS healthy it might be a disadvantage for the Bengals to play him and risk him getting hurt. I know that sounds odd, but it makes sense. The Bengals are going nowhere with or without him. If they put him in, they might even win a game or 2. Is that even a good thing in terms of the draft? Lots of questions.
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, Bill from NYC said: How many years are left on his contract? How is his health? If he IS healthy it might be a disadvantage for the Bengals to play him and risk him getting hurt. I know that sounds odd, but it makes sense. The Bengals are going nowhere with or without him. If they put him in, they might even win a game or 2. Is that even a good thing in terms of the draft? Lots of questions. My hunch is that he's basically fine right now and not playing because the Bengals really are trying to get a haul for him. His contract ends at the end of this season, and he is NOT going to re-sign with Cincy. It's basically move him now for a really good pick or two or hang on to him and get a late third for him in the next draft. I can't think they're that dumb to not move him. 1
Rocket94 Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I can’t think of a better WR fit for Allen. He would be one of the few WR’s that I would give a 1st rd pick up for. I’m guessing Tampa would want 2 1st rd picks though. Definately. He is still young and entering his prime. He would be worth a 1st...not 2 though. Inagine him and Brown together! It would be a whole different story for opposing defenses.
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: How many years are left on his contract? How is his health? If he IS healthy it might be a disadvantage for the Bengals to play him and risk him getting hurt. I know that sounds odd, but it makes sense. The Bengals are going nowhere with or without him. If they put him in, they might even win a game or 2. Is that even a good thing in terms of the draft? Lots of questions. Just thinking out loud here: the Bills have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 2 5ths, and 3 6ths next year (9 picks in all). Let's assume for a second that the Bills pick between 9-12 (WC team). I'd consider trading a 2nd, a 5th, and a 6th for him with the expectation that you can move that ~10 overall pick for a late first and a late second. There are always teams that want to move up. That's a plausible outcome, and still leaves the Bills with 7 picks and one in every round except 7. 1
billsfan89 Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 A "Swing for the Fences" type deal would be to trade for Keenan Allen or Mike Evans. Both are fairly young WR's who should have 3-5 more quality seasons left in the tank at a high level. I think it would at least require a 1st round pick to get it done but considering the glaring need for a WR opposite Brown both immediately and in the near future you have a justification for such a high investment. I am not sure that type of move fits the process at all. I think (and this is my personal speculation based off of how the current regime has handled things in the past) they aren't going to be willing to part with anything more than a 3rd round pick at this point. So I think a modest upgrade is what they are going to be what is looked into more by the team. I would think they would be on the radar for a Devante Parker type who would bring a talented big bodied receiver who wouldn't command a big cost but offers the size and ability missing from the current core. Marvin Jones is another type of player they could target but given that he is on an affordable deal for 2020 he isn't likely on the market. But I would love Allen or Evans if they feel this is really a win now type situation. But I don't see the cost being reasonable for both sides.
FireChans Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: My hunch is that he's basically fine right now and not playing because the Bengals really are trying to get a haul for him. His contract ends at the end of this season, and he is NOT going to re-sign with Cincy. It's basically move him now for a really good pick or two or hang on to him and get a late third for him in the next draft. I can't think they're that dumb to not move him. They get a comp pick if they let him walk.
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rocket94 said: Definately. He is still young and entering his prime. He would be worth a 1st...not 2 though. Inagine him and Brown together! It would be a whole different story for opposing defenses. I was about to say that the Chargers are still in it given a weak AFC and the fact that they're better than their record, but in their next 9 games, they face GB, Chicago, Minnesota, and KC twice. Just now, FireChans said: They get a comp pick if they let him walk. They get a late third (around pick 100) if they let him walk. If they trade him, they'll get more than that.
BurpleBull Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yeah. That’s why it needs to be higher than that. Miller is being held back by their qbs. Foster, minus the end of the last year, has really produced in the NFL or college. I don’t know why the Bears would do that, but if you can make happen, I’d love it. I think Miller could be really good in the right system. The Bears don't have a higher grade on Miller than Trubisky, if they were to move on from anybody in an attempt to upgrade the offense, it would be from Miller. Foster and Miller's rookie production balance out; Foster had more yardage in fewer games/starts, while Miller had more receiving touchdowns. I don't think it's far-fetched to believe that such a swap could go down. *Frank Gore was included in my initial trade scenario* A receiver, Gore, and a 4th/5th for Miller could also move the needle. Edited October 23, 2019 by BurpleBull
Boca BIlls Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: YUP Route running: It's hard to argue against Allen being the best route runner in the league. Allen has elite, short-area quickness that allows him to create separation at the top of the route, whether he's in the slot or on the perimeter. According Next Gen Stats, over half of Allen's receptions came on passes where he created at least 3 yards of separation. That's impressive. "I get open against any coverage," Allen said. "I don't see anybody covering, or no two people covering me." For me, Brown also has to be in the conversation because he consistently creates separation, particularly with his ability to get off press coverage. I also like Doug Baldwin of the Seattle Seahawks. Hands: Hard to go with anyone other than Larry Fitzgerald here. In the last three years, according to ESPN Stats & Information, Fitzgerald has 325 receptions for 3,394 receiving yards and 21 touchdowns, and just six drops. Brown also is impressive with just eight drops over the past three seasons. Allen had six drops just in 2017. Run after catch: According to ESPN Stats & Information, Detroit Lions receiver Golden Tate leads the league in yards after the catch over the last three seasons with 1,764. Miami Dolphins receiver Jarvis Landry (1,719) is second, followed by Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce in a surprise third (1,580). Last season, Tate led all receivers with 629 yards after the catch. Allen was third with 513 yards. Both Tate and Allen are similar in that they are like running backs once they catch the ball out in open space and consistently make defenders miss. Beckham also belongs in the conversation, but I'll take Tate here. Chargers wide receiver Keenan Allen has been the NFL’s most productive pass catcher this season, and it isn’t even close. Allen has a league-leading 29 catches, a league-leading 404 receiving yards, a league-leading 20 receiving first downs and a league-leading eight catches of 20 yards or more. The 27-year-old Allen has made the Pro Bowl each of the last two years, but his big start this year has him on pace for the best season of his career, by far. He has at least eight catches and at least 98 receiving yards in all three games this season. Allen is, through three games, the best receiver in the league. https://www.pff.com/news/pro-keenan-allens-unmatched-route-running-skillset-is-easily-one-of-the-nfls-best It’s no secret that Allen has been one of the NFL’s most potent route-runners in recent years, and he’s often doing it against opposing teams’ No. 1 cornerback. It doesn’t always work out in Allen’s favor, though. New England Patriots cornerback Stephon Gilmore held him to one reception on five targets (granted, it did go for a touchdown), and Cincinnati Bengals corner William Jackson III limited Allen to one catch on three targets for one yard. When Allen gets going, though, he’s nearly unstoppable. Against the Baltimore Ravens’ Jimmy Smith, the Denver Broncos’ Chris Harris Jr. and the Pittsburgh Steelers’ Joe Haden — all considered to have at least shared the responsibility of being their respective team’s No. 1 corner in 2018 — Allen was ruthless. To the tune of 12 catches on 15 combined targets against the trio, he racked up 143 yards and two touchdowns. The point is, you don’t have to watch much film before finding a clip of Allen turning a defensive back around or darting past them at the line of scrimmage with his innate quickness. In PFF’s prototypical wide receivers list, Allen was tabbed as the NFL’s model route-runner due to his unmatched ability to create separation and then produce on those plays. On routes when Allen had at least a step of separation or more during the 2018 regular season, he caught the fourth-most first downs (51), produced the third-most yards per route run (3.6) and had the highest completion percentage (93.8%). In nearly every meaningful category relating to route-running, Allen was near the top. 7 games vs 5 with those stats.
Solomon Grundy Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, DCOrange said: Jameis isn't great, but he's roughly an average starting QB. He's not so bad that you can write off a disappointing Evans stat due to the presence of Jameis. In reality though, the reason Evans' catch rate is relatively low is because the throws that come his way are generally low probability throws. Deep balls in general are low-percentage; add in the fact that Evans tends to get contested deep balls and it makes it even more low percentage. He's still a great, possibly even elite WR though. Having said that, I highly highly doubt Tampa has any interest in trading him. Worst case scenario (from their point of view), him and Godwin are exactly what they want in place for a new QB next year. Best case scenario is that Jameis settles in the 2nd half of the year and they have a great offense and an average or below-average defense. If Buffalo wants to trade for a WR, I would think there's at least some chance of getting the following guys: Difference makers: AJ Green Corey Davis Under-the-radar: Marqise Lee Nelson Agholer Paul Richardson I'd be fine with taking a flier on any of these guys depending on the price. Paul Richardson or Corey Davis would be ideal. Aghalor hands are too suspect.
Reed83HOF Posted October 23, 2019 Author Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: 7 games vs 5 with those stats. I expected Rivers vs Jameis
Solomon Grundy Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, Heitz said: Schein on AJ Green (with a mention of His Guy, Josh Allen): Who says it better than Schein?? 1
Reed83HOF Posted October 23, 2019 Author Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Edited October 23, 2019 by Reed83HOF
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