Gmfb - Pats best D ever

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, TheProcess said:

Obviously, Belichick’s evil genius preparation helps, but it’s amazing to me what he’s doing with mostly a bunch of nobodies. Yes, you’ve got Gilmore, Hightower, and the good McCourty brother, but most everyone else seems like just a name. No dominant pass rusher. Purely, cohesion and out preparing their opponents. It’s impressive, but incredibly frustrating we didn’t take that first game. 

 

Beli has always done it this way. 

 

Good role players up front and some high end secondary talent.

 

Particularly the pass defense scheme.

 

What helps him is the dearth of talented QBs in the NFL. 

[Blank Stare]

32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

All due respect, that argument makes no sense at all. 

 

Van noy was traded.  He was drafted 40th by the Lions.  Played on awful Defenses there that still suck.  He's a stud in NE--commensurate with his draft position (everyone had him as a top 5 LB).

 

Collins (and All Pro and Pro Bowler) was traded to the Browns for a 3rd. After a 2018 season where he had 16 starts, 104 tackles, 4 sacks, FF, Int---and the goofball Browns released him back into the welcoming arms of BB. 

 

They are very good players playing for the best coach ever.  But they are still out there playing the game. 

 

By your logic, Hyde, Poyer, Hughes, Alexander, Philips, Poyer are all from the 'trash heap" too, right? 

 

 

Stop it dude. Van Noy was discarded by the Lions. Collins by the Pats and Browns. Chung by the Eagles. Like it or not they were discarded. These guys are not superstars. If you can’t see that it’s Belicheck’s coaching, then I don’t know what to tell you. 
 

By your logic, I guess Danny Shelton is a “stud” because he was drafted in the first round by the Browns and traded to NE. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by TheProcess

[Yav]

49 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Esentially 9 points (blocked punt).  We moved the ball.  "Granted" fyi

Correct. As bad as the Bills offense has appeared (in regards to scoring points and slow starts) they really did push that "Greatest" NE D around and I honestly think if the Bills would have committed to running the ball down NE throats they would have exposed them and the Bill would have rolled NE in that game. They are good but calling them great is a stretch. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

4 minutes ago, Yav said:

Correct. As bad as the Bills offense has appeared (in regards to scoring points and slow starts) they really did push that "Greatest" NE D around and I honestly think if the Bills would have committed to running the ball down NE throats they would have exposed them and the Bill would have rolled NE in that game. They are good but calling them great is a stretch. 

I also think if Allen doesnt get knocked out, they win!

[TheFunPolice]

That collection of guys did not become a 85 Bears level defense

 

Let's review their dominance "going back to last season's playoff run"

 

Chiefs: NE gave up 31 points in the 2nd half once Andy Reid made adjustments. Mahomes also overthrew a wide open WR in the 1st half that should have been 7. Either way, Dee Ford lines up onsides and KC is in the Super Bowl and almost definitely wins. 

 

Rams: Goff is average at best, and their best 2 offensive players didn't play. McVay stood there like a zombie and just watched his team get crushed. 

 

2019

 

Here are the QBs they've played:

 

Week 1: big Ben with a busted elbow and nobody to throw to

Week 2 : Fitzpatrick/Rosen

Week 3: Luke Falk

Week 4: Josh Allen

Week 5: Colt McCoy

Week 6: Daniel Jones (no Barkley, no TE, no top WR)

Week 7: Sam Darnold

 

Allen and Darnold are young QBs with flaws. Other than that, the 2019 opposition has been a joke AND also teams have been missing players on top of that. 

 

I'm not ready to crown them the 85 Bears. 

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

That collection of guys did not become a 85 Bears level defense

 

Let's review their dominance "going back to last season's playoff run"

 

Chiefs: NE gave up 31 points in the 2nd half once Andy Reid made adjustments. Mahomes also overthrew a wide open WR in the 1st half that should have been 7. Either way, Dee Ford lines up onsides and KC is in the Super Bowl and almost definitely wins. 

 

Rams: Goff is average at best, and their best 2 offensive players didn't play. McVay stood there like a zombie and just watched his team get crushed. 

 

2019

 

Here are the QBs they've played:

 

Week 1: big Ben with a busted elbow and nobody to throw to

Week 2 : Fitzpatrick/Rosen

Week 3: Luke Falk

Week 4: Josh Allen

Week 5: Colt McCoy

Week 6: Daniel Jones (no Barkley, no TE, no top WR)

Week 7: Sam Darnold

 

Allen and Darnold are young QBs with flaws. Other than that, the 2019 opposition has been a joke AND also teams have been missing players on top of that. 

 

I'm not ready to crown them the 85 Bears. 

the bolded speaks volumes to those who really believe they're the best ever.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

the bolded speaks volumes to those who really believe they're the best ever.

 

I am 100% okay with it. Build the evil guys up so when the good guys triumph it's all the more sweet!

 

It's the script of every superhero movie, and we're the guys in red white and blue. 

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, TheProcess said:

Obviously, Belichick’s evil genius preparation helps, but it’s amazing to me what he’s doing with mostly a bunch of nobodies. Yes, you’ve got Gilmore, Hightower, and the good McCourty brother, but most everyone else seems like just a name. No dominant pass rusher. Purely, cohesion and out preparing their opponents. It’s impressive, but incredibly frustrating we didn’t take that first game. 

I agree with no big name pass rushers since Bennett was suspended and benched.  But damn they are getting there second in sacks in the NFL and leading the league in INT by a HUGE margin. 
 

the Secondary is really good Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, and McCourt at CB. With Chung and D McCourty at safety.  ( Jackson is actually grading out higher than Gilmore three 6 weeks.. not sure after all the Penalties on him last night though.) The back end is stacked and was built for teams like KC with so much WR Talent. The front 7 has Collins and Hightower  the rest are really no names.

 

i day they finish top 3.. I am not really afraid of Lamar Jackson, and KC is beatable, the Texans scare me the most of those left. Great QB, good D.. 

[TheFunPolice]

Texans could be for real this time around, but if Mahomes gets healthy and by some chance Watkins is healthy KC is close to unstoppable. 

 

Mahomes has been playing with a messed up ankle for weeks now. This could be a blessing in disguise for them. 

 

ALSO, if KC loses a few but wins their division, they might be low seed and go to NE in the divisional round. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by TheFunPolice

[Blank Stare]

12 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I agree with no big name pass rushers since Bennett was suspended and benched.  But damn they are getting there second in sacks in the NFL and leading the league in INT by a HUGE margin. 
 

the Secondary is really good Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, and McCourt at CB. With Chung and D McCourty at safety.  ( Jackson is actually grading out higher than Gilmore three 6 weeks.. not sure after all the Penalties on him last night though.) The back end is stacked and was built for teams like KC with so much WR Talent. The front 7 has Collins and Hightower  the rest are really no names.

 

i day they finish top 3.. I am not really afraid of Lamar Jackson, and KC is beatable, the Texans scare me the most of those left. Great QB, good D.. 

 

Yeah man, it’s incredible what you guys do. Year in and year out. No matter what, you keep rolling and put pressure on the league. I’d hoped we’d gain on you a bit this year. I think we have a little, but you guys just moved the goal line out on us a little more showing NE is still top dog. Personally, and I know this is extreme, but as long as you stay healthy, I don’t see you losing in the regular season. Sure, you’ll get challenged and there may be some close ones, but AFC is so watered down and you guys always seem to have an answer. Pains me to say it and I hope I’m wrong! ?

Edited October 22, 2019 by TheProcess

[QCity]

25 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

 

Here are the QBs they've played:

 

Week 1: big Ben with a busted elbow and nobody to throw to

Week 2 : Fitzpatrick/Rosen

Week 3: Luke Falk

Week 4: Josh Allen

Week 5: Colt McCoy

Week 6: Daniel Jones (no Barkley, no TE, no top WR)

Week 7: Sam Darnold

 

 

 

 

...and there's your answer.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Their defense leads the league thus far this season and shut out the "powerful" Jets last night.  This makes them the best defense ever?  I think not.  This reminds me of an article many years ago about Eric Davis, center fielder in the '80s for the Cincinnati Reds.  He was a tremendous hitter and athlete and accomplished such things as hitting three grand slams in a single month.  The article stated that he'd go down in history as being better than Babe Ruth, among others.  Well, injuries got the best of Davis and he wound up with a career .269 batting average and 282 home runs.  Accordingly, let's give the Pats defense some time before anointing them.

[PatsFanNH]

13 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

 

Yeah man, it’s incredible what you guys do. Year in and year out. No matter what, you keep rolling and put pressure on the league. I’d hoped we’d gain on you a bit this year. I think we have a little, but you guys just moved the goal line out on us a little more showing NE is still top dog. Personally, and I know this is extreme, but as long as you stay healthy, I don’t see you losing in the regular season. Sure, you’ll get challenged and there may be some close ones, but AFC is so watered down and you guys always seem to have an answer. Pains me to say it and I hope I’m wrong! ?

The Bills are the 2nd best team in the AFC IMO. I actually think the fact you pulled out Sunday’s game showed that the Bills turned a corner. I mean usually that’s a game the Bills lose and this board is losing its mind for the next week. 
 

Pats have strengthened their O and for some reason I am expecting Bennett be traded for another O piece.. (preferably a Left tackle that can block) 

[Capco]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

So.... How many teams with a winning record has the Pats beaten??   1 right? 

 

How many teams with a winning record did the 85 Bears beat?

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Their defense leads the league thus far this season and shut out the "powerful" Jets last night.  This makes them the best defense ever?  I think not.  This reminds me of an article many years ago about Eric Davis, center fielder in the '80s for the Cincinnati Reds.  He was a tremendous hitter and athlete and accomplished such things as hitting three grand slams in a single month.  The article stated that he'd go down in history as being better than Babe Ruth, among others.  Well, injuries got the best of Davis and he wound up with a career .269 batting average and 282 home runs.  Accordingly, let's give the Pats defense some time before anointing them.

I don’t expect them be best ever, but I think they are the best in the NFL right now, followed by your Bills.  I hate the argument “they've gone up against garbage”  well they may be bad but they aren’t just beating them they are humiliating them with how they are being shut down.  For example:

 

Jets avg:  10 points.  Got: 0

Dolphins avg: 10 points.  Got: 0

Bills Avg: 20 points Got: 10

Redskins avg: 12.9. Got: 7

Giants Avg:  18.9. Got 14

steelers Avg: 20.5. Got 3

 

total avg: 14.61.  Gave up: 6.28

 

so only thing I left out was the 14 the Jets got from Special teams and an INT since that doesn’t count against the D. (Well at least not in fantasy lol)  but you can see they are smothering these teams a lot more than anyone else.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, TheProcess said:

Stop it dude. Van Noy was discarded by the Lions. Collins by the Pats and Browns. Chung by the Eagles. Like it or not they were discarded. These guys are not superstars. If you can’t see that it’s Belicheck’s coaching, then I don’t know what to tell you. 
 

By your logic, I guess Danny Shelton is a “stud” because he was drafted in the first round by the Browns and traded to NE. 

 

Every player on the Bills I mentioned was discarded.  So they were all resurrected by the supernatural coaching of McD and Leslie Frasier?  You're making no sense.  Players get offloaded all the time.  Good ones thrive elsewhere-especially on better teams.

 

I never said that they are "superstars", so save your breath endlessly repeating that.  On that D, they are studs.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

40 minutes ago, Capco said:

How many teams with a winning record did the 85 Bears beat?

 

1985 Chicago Bears season

 

pats* - 11-5

 

redskins - 10-6

 

49ers - 10-6

 

cowgirls - 10-6

 

fins - 12-4

 

jets - 11-5

 

looks like 6 with a winning record.

 

The defense led the league in points allowed (198), yards allowed (4,135) and takeaways (54), a feat that wouldn’t be accomplished again until the 2013 Seattle Seahawks defense.

[K-9]

“Best ever“ arguments are futile. Everything is relative. 
 

What can’t be argued is that this Pateiots*** defense is performing at a historical level. Argue all you want about “best ever this” or “ best ever that”, but it misses the point that this Pats*** defense is in the discussion when it comes to the best defenses in history. They have a seat at the table. 

 

To this point of the season, anyway.. They have 9 games left and while I don’t think there’s any chance they don’t keep up their level of play, lots of weird crap can happen. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

They have faced 7 different NFL Offenses----one passing TD allowed.  18 ints.  The odds that not one of 6 NFL teams could throw a TD pass are astounding.

 

A great D crushes inferior Offenses every week.  Maybe they fall apart with the meat of their schedule coming up

 

 

Barring the 5-1 Bills ...   They played teams with a combined 6 wins.
Pittsburgh 2 - started 0-3 
Miami 0
New York NYETS 1
Washington 1

New York Giants 2

New York NYETS 1*

Softness of the Schedule matters 

 

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

Here are the QBs they've played:

 

Week 1: big Ben with a busted elbow and nobody to throw to

Week 2 : Fitzpatrick/Rosen

Week 3: Luke Falk

Week 4: Josh Allen

Week 5: Colt McCoy

Week 6: Daniel Jones (no Barkley, no TE, no top WR)

Week 7: Sam Darnold

 

 

you beat me to it  

Edited October 22, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Capco]

10 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

1985 Chicago Bears season

 

pats* - 11-5

 

redskins - 10-6

 

49ers - 10-6

 

cowgirls - 10-6

 

fins - 12-4

 

jets - 11-5

 

looks like 6 with a winning record.

 

The defense led the league in points allowed (198), yards allowed (4,135) and takeaways (54), a feat that wouldn’t be accomplished again until the 2013 Seattle Seahawks defense.

 

They didn't beat the Dolphins, so that's 5.  But thank you nonetheless for the breakdown!