billsfan1959 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: Someone wrote it, so must be correct..... Right???? Wrong.... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2001.htm Threw for over 300 in his 3rd start. By 2002 (one year under his belt) had 3 300 yard game, 28 TD's & 3800 yards passing..... And the Pats were only 9-7..... So when you post something, check the stats first. Also a different game in 2001/02 vs. 2019 BTW Wrong on Brees too...../ This is such a disingenuous post. I love that you present his 300 yd game that season and forget to mention he threw the ball 54 times in that game, and averaged 177 yds per game in the other 14 games. That was a team with a very good deffense and, yes, Brady was not much more than a game manager. He did throw for 300 yards against the Raiders in their first playoff game; however, again, he threw the ball over 50 times (with no TDs and 1 INT in a game they barely won 16-13). In the other two playoff games, including the Super Bowl, he averaged around 130 yds per game. His big claim to fame that year was that he did lead them into winning field goal range in the SB. 4
billsfan1959 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, Seven-N-Nine said: He's not supposed to be having success as a QB because the NFL says he's a RB. Outside of the 1st two games this season, his success has largely come from running the ball. Overall, he has been successful, though, and you cannot ignore that he is 11-3 as a starter. However, since the 1st two games, his passing game appears to have reverted to what it was last year. I think, for sustainable success, he needs to be better from the pocket. This reminds me a lot of what Roman did with Kaepernick. Sooner or later, teams will develop a blueprint for keeping him relatively in check as a runner. Then we will see. That is what I like with Allen this year: Learning to rely on his skills in the pocket rather than with his legs. He has a long way to go; however, it is the only way he will truly be successful long term 1
Billsfan1972 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: This is such a disingenuous post. I love that you present his 300 yd game that season and forget to mention he threw the ball 54 times in that game, and averaged 177 yds per game in the other 14 games. That was a team with a very good deffense and, yes, Brady was not much more than a game manager. He did throw for 300 yards against the Raiders in their first playoff game; however, again, he threw the ball over 50 times (with no TDs and 1 INT in a game they barely won 16-13). In the other two playoff games, including the Super Bowl, he averaged around 130 yds per game. His big claim to fame that year was that he did lead them into winning field goal range in the SB. It's a fact..... He was too a 6th round pick thrust into the starting roll and did win a SB. The 300 yard game in the regular season was an OT win (as was the Raider's game). Remember he was not the 7th pick in the draft, and NE had no real idea what they had.
TheElectricCompany Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, ALF said: Lamar is the surprise to me , good pick by the Ravens. I know we throw around "potential" and "ceiling" far too often, but I'm looking forward to the type of player Lamar becomes. He's a monster and the biggest playmaker among the 2018 QBs. Edited October 22, 2019 by TheElectricCompany
Hebert19 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 39 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said: I think Jackson is better than Tyrod. Jackson doesn't seem to be afraid to pull the trigger like Tyrod was. Still not entirely sold on Jackson long term, but he's better than Tyrod. Ya. More Mike Vick than throd9
billsfan1959 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said: It's a fact..... He was too a 6th round pick thrust into the starting roll and did win a SB. The 300 yard game in the regular season was an OT win (as was the Raider's game). Remember he was not the 7th pick in the draft, and NE had no real idea what they had. I don't particularly care what round he was picked in or how he ended up in the starting role. The point was that you told a poster he was WRONG in claiming Brady was a game manager to begin his career, and cherry picked a stat line to prove your point. Anyone who actually watched those games knows that was exactly what Brady was at the beginning. BTW: In the 300 yard games you mention of Brady's those 1st three years, he had over 50 attempts in all but one. I would venture to guess that if Allen threw the ball over 50 times in any of the games this year, he would probably have a few 300 yard games under his belt. 3 1
Buffaloaf Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: And 5 of the 6 were losses, which meant he did not play well. The only win was by 10 over Buffalo, where he threw for 183 in December and they were up 17 in the fourth until a late TD with a minute to go. Again further points out that if he did play better those other 5 games, they may have won..... I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Brady was a game manager type QB his first few years as a starter. He didn't start lighting the league on fire until a couple years later. Maybe you have a different definition of game manager? 2
DCOrange Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: Ya. More Mike Vick than throd9 He's a better passer right now than Vick ever was IMO. Vick didn't really develop his passing skills at all until he got to Philly. In Atlanta he was almost entirely reliant on his running ability and his cannon of an arm. Lamar's pocket presence is already among the best in the league and his ability to read defenses already surpasses Vick pretty comfortably.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 47 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said: I think Jackson is better than Tyrod. Jackson doesn't seem to be afraid to pull the trigger like Tyrod was. Still not entirely sold on Jackson long term, but he's better than Tyrod. you did see Tyrod 2.0 right?
Buffaloaf Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said: you did see Tyrod 2.0 right? Guess I misunderstood what you meant. Seems we are in agreement. 1
HOUSE Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 I see no need to doctor up stats, I find this morally unacceptable 1
ngbills Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 If there is an NFL draft and these are the 5 QB available where does Allen get picked? I say he goes 3rd behind Mayfield and Jackson.
mykidsdad Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 58 minutes ago, Buffaloaf said: I think Jackson is better than Tyrod. Jackson doesn't seem to be afraid to pull the trigger like Tyrod was. Still not entirely sold on Jackson long term, but he's better than Tyrod. I think Lamar Jackson is AMAZING. His running is Vick-like, and he may be a better passer than Vick, BUT he is going to have a short career playing at this level if he doesn't play safer. I saw him a couple of times this week escape big hits. It was amazing, but it just takes one. I'm not rooting for it, but if he doesn't change his style it is inevitable, and the injuries will likely reduce his effectiveness. Of course, if he changes his style, will he be as good? Probably not, so in the long run, even if Lamar has a better 2019 or 2020 than Darnold and Allen, Darnold and Allen (even Mayfield) may likely have better careers. Time will tell. 1
TH3 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Seven-N-Nine said: He's not supposed to be having success as a QB because the NFL says he's a RB. That is pretty much what he is
Rico Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: Someone wrote it, so must be correct..... Right???? Wrong.... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2001.htm Threw for over 300 in his 3rd start. By 2002 (one year under his belt) had 3 300 yard game, 28 TD's & 3800 yards passing..... And the Pats were only 9-7..... So when you post something, check the stats first. Also a different game in 2001/02 vs. 2019 BTW Wrong on Brees too...../ Stats are for losers.
RocCityRoller Posted October 22, 2019 Author Posted October 22, 2019 5 hours ago, zonabb said: He's somewhere between Brady ad Favre, got it. Wow. I'd advise a review of Brady's first 4-5 year stats his; JA isn't close to replicating any of those years if we extrapolate this year to the end. Brady has never had one season with a completion percentage below 60%. He's never had a season where his TF to INT ratio was what close to inverted, like JA's 15:19 through this first 16 starts. The constant JA hopes and dreams here are laughable in not only how much people's live revolve around this question but also the lengths they go to try and compare him to Hall of Famers. Maybe he'll be good. But maybe he'll flame out. But in this pass happy league, he has some of the traits you don't like to see. Bad reads, indecisiveness, lower than average accuracy (I admit it's getting better). I'm not trying to call you out, but I'm calling you out because there is so much wrong with this post. You didn't seem to grasp the nature of the post at all. That happens. But then you conflate things with a ridiculous straw man argument that went over the top. Bringing Brady into the conversation is asinine. Where did I mention Brady in the OP? Where did I compare JA or any 2018 QB with Brady? I clearly compared the top 5 QB selections in what is supposed to be a good QB draft and compared them against each other. I pointed out an overlooked FACT when comparing QBs. After that I compared 1 QB to 1 QB in the past with what I find to be similar traits. Prove me wrong with facts, not ridiculous statements. The nature of the post, since you missed it completely, is that stats don't always tell the story. Sometimes a QB is better than the stats tell. That is why I included completion % in the comparison, to be honest. Some QBs have the moxy to win games they shouldn't. 5 QBs were first round talent, one QB has almost as many 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives as the other 4 combined about a season in. That means something, and it should be a point of hope to a fan base. Keep a game within reach, and let the QB do his job, win. There are one or two QBs you can say that about in the last 20 years. One is very much like JA. I mention Brett Favre and have all along because his college completion % was bad. He came from a smaller school. He was elusive and could scramble. He had a devil may care moxy and attitude. He had a lot of terrible games and head scratching throws. He had a canon for an arm. Does this not sound familiar? He also found ways to win. Fans felt that no deficit in the 4th quarter was insurmountable. Sometimes it was true, more often than not. JA has 7 game winning drives in 17 games. That is a FACT. Whether you like it or not. 70% of his wins are comebacks. 70%. No other 2018 QB has more than 4, another fact. I'll take the roller coaster as long as JA finds ways to win. JA will drive us nuts, so did Brett Favre to GB fans. They are far more similar than they are different. JA is a natural winner and he is proving it. He is better at it than the rest of his class despite the metrics and the stats. That was the point of the post.
RocCityRoller Posted October 22, 2019 Author Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) since some people here tend to argue nonsense I thought I would look back to Brady, Brees, Manning and Favre for 4QCB and GWD QB Games started Wins Losses 4QCB GWD Brees 27 10 17 2 5 (3 seasons) Brady 30 20 10 5 6 (3 seasons) Manning 32 16 16 7 8 (2 seasons) Favre 29 17 12 6 6 (3 seasons) Mahomes 23 17 6 3 4 (3rd season) Kelly 28 10 18 2 2 (2nd season*) Allen 17 10 7 5 7 (in 2nd season) What JA is doing is special. He is the definition of a clutch QB. If he is doing this in year 2, what will he be in yrs 4-5? Edited October 22, 2019 by RocCityRoller 2 1
The Frankish Reich Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 14 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: QB 4 has the second worst completion percentage, but has 5 4th quarter comebacks and 7 Game Winning Drives. Some may say that guy is clutch. But 'good Josh' is spectacular, and is clutch. 70% of his wins are game winning drives. Keep a good D around this guy and Buffalo will be in every game he starts for his career. And yes I still think they should get RB help before the deadline. To paraphrase what prominent man once said of the late John McCain: Josh Allen is a QB hero because he falls behind in games and then has to dig himself with 4th quarter drives. I prefer QB heroes who don't fall behind in the first place. 1
Billsfan1972 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: since some people here tend to argue nonsense I thought I would look back to Brady, Brees, Manning and Favre for 4QCB and GWD QB Games started Wins Losses 4QCB GWD Brees 27 10 17 2 5 (3 seasons) Brady 30 20 10 5 6 (3 seasons) Manning 32 16 16 7 8 (2 seasons) Favre 29 17 12 6 6 (3 seasons) Mahomes 23 17 6 3 4 (3rd season) Kelly 28 10 18 2 2 (2nd season*) Allen 17 10 7 5 7 (in 2nd season) What JA is doing is special. He is the definition of a clutch QB. If he is doing this in year 2, what will he be in yrs 4-5? I am an Allen fan because he is a Bill & I want him to succeed. And yes he has been very good in the 4th & again IO blame the first 3 on the Bills game plan and their "The team is built on Defense" attitude. I'm looking at the QB's you've noted and they were given the keys to succeed. Peyton they hung their hat on, Brady was a 6th round pick, Brees was selected 32nd. Favre 33rd...... As the #7 pick the Bills need to see what he can do for 4 quarters, not just the Fourth!!!!!
Billsfan1972 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: To paraphrase what prominent man once said of the late John McCain: Josh Allen is a QB hero because he falls behind in games and then has to dig himself with 4th quarter drives. I prefer QB heroes who don't fall behind in the first place. No this is a coaching issue..... I blame the schemes & coaching 75%, JA 25%...... Sorry my imaginary 300 yard threshold is my measuring point and can't believe the Bills have gone 40 games. 29!!!!! QB's have done it already this year.......
Recommended Posts