First Time I have been concerned with Josh Allen

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

One other thing that concerns me about Allen is, during his press conference the tip of his nose was all red. Is that a huge embarrassing zit? If so, been there done that.

 

as someone who has rosacea, I can tell you that's a pain in the ass.

 

[Pokebball]

1 minute ago, Buftex said:

I don't know how old a lot of the posters are here, though I know have been Bills fans for 40+ years.  I suspect many have only known the Bills during this "drought" era. Anyone who is old enough to remember the Super Bowl era Bills (and I mean really remember them, not just the highlights) can tell you, Jim Kelly had plenty of ***** games along the way....but made plays to win more often than not. Allen is progressing...let him grow.  He was fine yesterday.

This isn't just the Bills, it's every team in the NFL.

[ngbills]

4 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I don't know how old a lot of the posters are here, though I know have been Bills fans for 40+ years.  I suspect many have only known the Bills during this "drought" era. Anyone who is old enough to remember the Super Bowl era Bills (and I mean really remember them, not just the highlights) can tell you, Jim Kelly had plenty of ***** games along the way....but made plays to win more often than not. Allen is progressing...let him grow.  He was fine yesterday.

I have been round for it all as well. Which is why I am critical of things. Yes Allen is progressing and yes he needs time, But I dont need the smoke blown up my you know what about how I am blind and he is really playing great. We are 5-1 so who cares or whatever else. We could be 5-1 or 6-0 with a ton of QB's with how this defense has played. Barring an incredible meltdown JA is here for this year and next at least. If next year he is still playing this way there will be questions about his ceiling. 

[Pokebball]

7 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I have been round for it all as well. Which is why I am critical of things. Yes Allen is progressing and yes he needs time, But I dont need the smoke blown up my you know what about how I am blind and he is really playing great. We are 5-1 so who cares or whatever else. We could be 5-1 or 6-0 with a ton of QB's with how this defense has played. Barring an incredible meltdown JA is here for this year and next at least. If next year he is still playing this way there will be questions about his ceiling. 

Are "ifs" any different than blowing smoke up one's ass?

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, Pokebball said:

It was 3rd down, right?  4th and 14 or 4th and 10.  Out of field goal range.  It didn't matter.  He knew that.  Throwing it away was a certain punt.  Scrambling coulda maybe gotten it.

Right?

He wasn't great at deep balls in college?

Dude, I don't have a problem with Josh Allen's long ball. He's a little off right now. It wasn't a problem in the past and it won't be in the future. I was just pointing out that this is the new crying point for the folks who don't like Josh Allen. When that isn't a problem, they'll find something else.

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, Pokebball said:

Are "ifs" any different than blowing smoke up one's ass?

If's are what we are seeing of of yet. His play still has much room for improvement. Other Qb's have lost jobs with his level of play. Do you feel the current version we are seeing of Josh Allen is good enough to be the teams QB for the next 10 years? 

[Ga boy]

9 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I have been round for it all as well. Which is why I am critical of things. Yes Allen is progressing and yes he needs time, But I dont need the smoke blown up my you know what about how I am blind and he is really playing great. We are 5-1 so who cares or whatever else. We could be 5-1 or 6-0 with a ton of QB's with how this defense has played. Barring an incredible meltdown JA is here for this year and next at least. If next year he is still playing this way there will be questions about his ceiling. 

Our measuring stick is Jim Kelly which isn't fair to Josh at this point;  however, we do remember that Jim won many games outright.   Josh isn't really doing that yet.   The good news is that we could be 9-1 if he doesn't digress.  There are a dozen QBs I'd rather have, but, if he doesn't digress, we will make the playoffs.  Go Bills!  

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, ngbills said:

If's are what we are seeing of of yet. His play still has much room for improvement. Other Qb's have lost jobs with his level of play. Do you feel the current version we are seeing of Josh Allen is good enough to be the teams QB for the next 10 years? 

So you think a very raw qb with 17 games under his belt who has shown significant progress over that time should be hypothetically evaluated as if he shows no more improvement or perhaps regresses for the next ten years? If he stays where he is at, he's a game manager capable of a few wow plays and clutch in the fourth. That last one is unlikely to lose any qb in the league his job. It's also much more likely he continues to improve. His ceiling is elite. His floor is sustainable pro. But go on with your deep analysis.

[Bob in STL]

I like Allen.  I think he is a natural leader.  He did not play for great coaches in a great college program and he was not a classic “Franchise QB” right of out college.   Still he looks to be improving steadily and he has the tools.   He did not get the ideal NFL grooming, or get to play with an experienced and talented offense, or even get to work with a proven NFL OC.  Yet he makes the best of every situation and he is accountable for what he does.  

 

Best of all he can handle pressure and he has a winning record.   

 

Seems  s like a great young man that fits into Buffalo.  I’m pulling for him. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Eventually it will reach the logical question all teams must ask of their rookie QBs...

 

’Are they good enough to win minus key defensive pieces that their 2nd contract will force the team to lose?’

 

At some point the great defense won’t be here keeping the team in games while Buffalos Offense flounders for 2-3 quarters.

 

IMO.

[Pokebball]

3 minutes ago, ngbills said:

If's are what we are seeing of of yet. His play still has much room for improvement. Other Qb's have lost jobs with his level of play. Do you feel the current version we are seeing of Josh Allen is good enough to be the teams QB for the next 10 years? 

If Josh stops growing and learning, or if he regresses, he will not be.  Same as any kid I hire out of college.  Do I think Josh or any kid I hire out of college will stop learning and growing or regress?  No.  If I did, I wouldn't have hired them.  If Beane and McDermott thought Josh would quit learning and growing, I'm 100% sure they wouldn't have drafted him.  In fact, I'm 100% sure they would not draft any kid that they didn't think would continue learning and develop into a better player.  Given the offense around Josh last year and the brand new unit around Josh this year, I'm encouraged by the progress he's made.

 

So, i'll play.  If Josh takes the Bills to the Super Bowl next year and wins the MVP, I think he'll be the teams QB for the next 10 years.

[Buftex]

21 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I have been round for it all as well. Which is why I am critical of things. Yes Allen is progressing and yes he needs time, But I dont need the smoke blown up my you know what about how I am blind and he is really playing great. We are 5-1 so who cares or whatever else. We could be 5-1 or 6-0 with a ton of QB's with how this defense has played. Barring an incredible meltdown JA is here for this year and next at least. If next year he is still playing this way there will be questions about his ceiling. 

Understood, and I get what you are saying... I am not talking about blowing smoke, I am talking about keeping things in perspective...our traditionally mediocre team is 5-1...why are we worrying about next year already?  Other than being off on a few deep passes yesterday, I really didn't see any problem with his game...or with the game against the Titans.  They were solid performances. Not sure that throwing for 400 yards in a loss is going to make me feel any better about him.  

[jrober38]

Allen was fine yesterday. 

 

The first half was weird all around. The second half he was great. 

 

He needs to learn to throw deep, but his performance yesterday did nothing to change my opinion of him either way. 

[Ga boy]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

So you think a very raw qb with 17 games under his belt who has shown significant progress over that time should be hypothetically evaluated as if he shows no more improvement or perhaps regresses for the next ten years? If he stays where he is at, he's a game manager capable of a few wow plays and clutch in the fourth. That last one is unlikely to lose any qb in the league his job. It's also much more likely he continues to improve. His ceiling is elite. His floor is sustainable pro. But go on with your deep analysis.

I don't think that a QB in the NFL today can be a game manager for 3 quarters.  That loses more than it wins.  But we'll make the playoffs if he stays were he is.  However, he has to get better if we hope to make any noise in January.  Go Bills!!

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

How many deep passed were off target late last year??

 

I joked about it before.
Both Zay and Foster were the deep threats.  

barring any Zay drops he was on target mostly 

 

it is a reason people were so high on Foster making the team this year.  

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

I don't think that a QB in the NFL today can be a game manager for 3 quarters.  That loses more than it wins.  But we'll make the playoffs if he stays were he is.  However, he has to get better if we hope to make any noise in January.  Go Bills!!

 

There are aberration Super bowls with very good defenses and game manager qbs like when Trent Dilfer won, but I agree for real long-term success, Allen must play better. I think it more likely than not he will. He's already shown remarkable growth in a short period of time, imo. I don't see any reason to suspect he won't continue to improve.

[Philo]

2 hours ago, london_bills said:

He's not put A COMPLETE, Consistent game together yet, he plays differently at times in the game and so IN THAT there are things that concern people.

 

Bigger picture You are right about the last two weeks (aside from the one pick in the Titans game). More aware of the game situation, throwing the ball away. He's done what was asked of him to do, to be more responsibile.

 

He was more hesitant at the start of the dolphins game I thought, looked like he didn't want to throw a pick - but who can blame him?? However this indecisiveness at times is what Allen has shown AS WELL AS THE GOOD.

 

After the half against the dolphins he was GREAT. You can't ask for more there. Allen looked the business.

 

At other times you can ask for more and be concerned about what's going on - he clicks into gear, but when he's not in that gear it's all a bit more messy and odd.

 

There needs to be a conversation about these points without people thinking posters are saying Allen is all bad.

 

As long as he puts those clutch drives in a game he will win games for the bills.

 

DONT IGNORE what is there in games -  there's the great Allen when he clicks into gear and and there's the indecisive Allen who looks 'nervous'. 

 

No one wants a different quarterback at this point but to shut down all talk of his inadequacies is ignorant.

 

Those are all fair points and I largely agree. As for the bolded, the spirit of my post was that the timing of this entire thread struck me as odd. Post it after the Patriots game? Sure - I'll give you that. But after yesterday? Does not make as much sense to me at all. He is bound to have another bad game at some point at which time discussion of his inadequacies are more relevant. I suppose I just choose to not dwell on negatives after a win. I understand that is hard for some - not calling you out specifically - just some people here in general.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, macaroni said:

 

I'd like a mod or somebody to DM me what was it that he said or did so I can judge for myself … I know my son, I know what kind of Bills fan he is, and I know the high reguard he USED to have for this forum. I find it unlikely he "did something naughty"

 

Listen up!

 

It's not hard to find a mod on here.  We're pretty well known.  We accept PMs.  Most folks here seem able to figure out that if there's a problem, they can make a report or PM a mod or admin and get a response.  They may not like the response, but they will get one. 

 

Why is it "up to" a mod to come across your complaints and "DM" you?  Why isn't it "up to" you, to take constructive action?

 

The mind boggles.

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, macaroni said:

unfounded acquisitions = acquisitions that have no foundation in truth

accusations?

4 hours ago, macaroni said:

we are both educated and articulate

?‍♂️

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, timekills17 said:

 

While I agree with your premise that this week was probably not the best one to express concerns about the performance, I think you're missing the salient point. 

OP wasn't complaining about Josh's performance as much as how or OC - Daboll - is forcing that performance. His concern is if Daboll is trying to force Josh to be a QB he's not, and losing some of his special ability as he attempts to fit the round QB into the square QB mold. LBSeeBallLBGetB

 

I don't share @PlayoffsPlease's concerns yet, but I can see where he is coming from. My belief is more along @LBSeeBallLBGetBall's take, that the long game here is to have JA be a successful QB whether through his arm in the modified WC offense, through a longer ball game, or through his legs - depending on what the defense gives him. The focus has been on improving his weakness in reading, reacting, and the quick game. The legs are already there. I hope once the short game is up to snuff they'll return to the long ball but I'm optimistic.

 

An interesting perspective on the OP's point and I do appreciate you re-casting the point as a "force round QB into square QB mold" concern.

 

I have had the thought myself that Daboll has been trying to push Josh to speed-develop the weak parts of his game.

 

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eventually it will reach the logical question all teams must ask of their rookie QBs...

 

’Are they good enough to win minus key defensive pieces that their 2nd contract will force the team to lose?’

 

At some point the great defense won’t be here keeping the team in games while Buffalos Offense flounders for 2-3 quarters.

 

IMO.

 

This is a really good succinct capture of the key issue for a team with a young QB.