Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Phillips rolled over after sacking Fitz with the ball literally between his legs. Instead of asking "where's the ball? and grabbing it to tuck it away, I don't think Fitzy plowed him over - I think Phillips was just so full of himself that he got the sack, he had no "ball awareness" at all and rolled over and got up It was a great sack, followed by one of the least situationally aware moves I've seen from a good player. I've gotta admit, when I first saw this play I felt the same thing but as I watched it again slowly, I didn't blame him much for this. The ball was never in his field of vision. More, when Fitzy was in his field of vision - and it was for a very brief instant as Phillips' momentum rolled him almost instantly right over Fitzy and put his back to him - Fitzy wasn't reacting, he was still stunned from the hit, his reaction hadn't started. Those pictures above seem to give him a chance to see it, but he was rolling, fast, towards the ball and away from Fitz in that sequence. That sequence is somewhat strangely ordered. In order those pictures went middle then top then bottom and it happened in an instant. When players look for a fumble it's usually because they see a loose ball or they see players looking for a loose ball, or they hear someone shout. I don't think he had any of these cues on this play. Looked like bad luck to me. Yeah, he rolled over on the ball, but players roll over on things constantly when making a tackle. Edited October 22, 2019 by Thurman#1 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 3 hours ago, NickelCity said: We need to win that playoff game or this place will be even more miserable than if we miss they playoffs. Which is insane, if you think about it. 3
FeelingOnYouboty Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 We’ll be even better next year in terms of performances
Seven-N-Nine Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Phillips rolled over after sacking Fitz with the ball literally between his legs. Instead of asking "where's the ball? and grabbing it to tuck it away, I don't think Fitzy plowed him over - I think Phillips was just so full of himself that he got the sack, he had no "ball awareness" at all and rolled over and got up It was a great sack, followed by one of the least situationally aware moves I've seen from a good player. I agree with this take and was summarily dismissed for it. He was looking to get up and do a dance, then he probably heard "BALL" by his fellow teammates so he looked back, but it was too late. It was a faceplam moment when watching the game.
billsfan1959 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I'm pretty sure he was credited with the tackle AND that the kicker didn't fall until White was grasping at his ankles..............so yes I'd say that's an ankle tackle. Again, this was a kicker. I get trying to tackle a 230# RB or 250# TE low. A kicker? You wrap and stand that guy up and put him on his back if you are a defensive player. I suspect he and the other day-dreaming defenders forgot that it was fourth and short and not fourth and goal because the urgency to stop the ball was not there. Actually, White was probably anticipating a fake field goal. He had outside containment and clearly saw the direct snap to the holder. At that point, he can see the holder with the ball and the kicker moving toward the outside in White's direction. He does exactly what he is supposed to do in stepping forward to keep the runner inside. He then moves in to make the tackle (The view from behind the defense in the All 22 below shows this pretty well). Because White initially had to step forward to keep the runner inside, he was in a position to have to make the tackle more from the side than the front. This wasn't a case of taking the runner (a punter) head on and getting run over. It also wasn't a case of "attempting to ankle tackle the kicker" as you originally stated, which, by the way, is different than attempting to make a tackle and ending up bringing him down by the lower legs/ankles. But, I suspect you know that. To describe White as not paying attention, day-dreaming, or making some sort of "worst effort of the game" kind of attempt at a tackle, IMO, is a clear mischaracterization That is my opinion. I have included the video to support my conclusion, and, so that posters can look at it and make up their own minds 1
jimmy10 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 14 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Honestly, why do some fans feel the need to put an asterisk next to every Bills win - or to qualify it in some way? Because they complete a very scientific analysis which proves, beyond a doubt, that when you discount all of the good things the Bills do, the Bills don’t do anything good at all. 3
BADOLBILZ Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 6 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Actually, White was probably anticipating a fake field goal. He had outside containment and clearly saw the direct snap to the holder. At that point, he can see the holder with the ball and the kicker moving toward the outside in White's direction. He does exactly what he is supposed to do in stepping forward to keep the runner inside. He then moves in to make the tackle (The view from behind the defense in the All 22 below shows this pretty well). Because White initially had to step forward to keep the runner inside, he was in a position to have to make the tackle more from the side than the front. This wasn't a case of taking the runner (a punter) head on and getting run over. It also wasn't a case of "attempting to ankle tackle the kicker" as you originally stated, which, by the way, is different than attempting to make a tackle and ending up bringing him down by the lower legs/ankles. But, I suspect you know that. To describe White as not paying attention, day-dreaming, or making some sort of "worst effort of the game" kind of attempt at a tackle, IMO, is a clear mischaracterization That is my opinion. I have included the video to support my conclusion, and, so that posters can look at it and make up their own minds You can't try to tackle a ball carrier like you are in the open field when you are in short yardage. I wasn't impressed. I'm usually spot on with my takes and that's the case here as well. Not well played by White. The interception was a tremendous play. I think he was inspired by not getting the job done on the fake.
billsfan1959 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, BADOLBILZ said: You can't try to tackle a ball carrier like you are in the open field when you are in short yardage. I wasn't impressed. I'm usually spot on with my takes and that's the case here as well. Not well played by White. The interception was a tremendous play. I think he was inspired by not getting the job done on the fake. Actually, you weren't. But, it appears to be very important to you to believe that you were... So, good luck with all that 1 1
Alphadawg7 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/21/2019 at 8:41 AM, eball said: What's really funny is reading how Buffalo turned Miami's two turnovers into touchdowns -- while conveniently omitting that the Bills drove NINETY-EIGHT freaking yards after the first one. Yeah and its irritating that people act like wining was a fluke because one of the top corners in the NFL forced 2 turnovers. That his job, and this defense did its job. A fluke is losing to NE from a blocked punt thats rare. Its not a fluke when a turnover prone QB goes out and turns the ball over against a top flight defense and against a premier DB. First half was ugly, but this team rebounded on both sides of the ball and made the plays it needed like it has all season to win this game. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Phillips rolled over after sacking Fitz with the ball literally between his legs. Instead of asking "where's the ball? and grabbing it to tuck it away, I don't think Fitzy plowed him over - I think Phillips was just so full of himself that he got the sack, he had no "ball awareness" at all and rolled over and got up It was a great sack, followed by one of the least situationally aware moves I've seen from a good player. Meh...in the live speed action, there is no way he can know the ball is out. For all he knows he is rolling over Fitz foot or something. Just was a fluke thing, people are making too big a deal out of this. It was a sensational play and it literally changed the entire game as was the single most important play in the 2nd half. 2
NickelCity Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Which is insane, if you think about it. Truly.
dave mcbride Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You can't try to tackle a ball carrier like you are in the open field when you are in short yardage. I wasn't impressed. I'm usually spot on with my takes and that's the case here as well. Not well played by White. The interception was a tremendous play. I think he was inspired by not getting the job done on the fake. In that sort of situation -- i.e., a genuinely automatic FG in an extremely short down/distance situation -- the only thing you should be playing is the fake. Don't waste effort trying block a chip shot. It's shorter than the old extra point, and they had something like a 99.5 percent success rate the year before they moved the ball back. 10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Agreed. Ridiculous of BadolBilz to blame Tre for not hitting him high when he had to fully extend to hit him in the hip on that fake kick. But Tre was coming in from the side, not head to head and so though he brought him down he couldn't stop his momentum. While not a great play, it wasn't a bad one either. You'd want the Bills DL to be gang tackling him there, and it didn't happen. It was a good call, surprising them. It shouldn't have surprised them because the only thing they should have been defending against was the fake. Don't try to block an old-school extra point. It never works.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You can't try to tackle a ball carrier like you are in the open field when you are in short yardage. I wasn't impressed. I'm usually spot on with my takes and that's the case here as well. Not well played by White. The interception was a tremendous play. I think he was inspired by not getting the job done on the fake. Ahhhhh! my favorite thing about 2 Bills Drive, the wannabee expert! Edited October 22, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 2
Best Williams Available Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 22 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Your perception is probably colored by your surprise at the fake. Everyone should have been expecting a fake there. It was an 0-5 team with nothing to lose and there is no chance to block a kick in that close. The ONLY play there is to plan and defend against the fake. White played it like it was 4th and goal not fourth and short. Agreed that Phillips play was stupid. It was a very unfocused effort by the defense. Bad situational football much of the game. I was surprised they were surprised by the fake as well. You’re right they all should have been prepared for that. Fact is Tre made a solo tackle on a play where 8-10 defenders usually crowd the LOS. He saved the game there. 20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Phillips rolled over after sacking Fitz with the ball literally between his legs. Instead of asking "where's the ball? and grabbing it to tuck it away, I don't think Fitzy plowed him over - I think Phillips was just so full of himself that he got the sack, he had no "ball awareness" at all and rolled over and got up It was a great sack, followed by one of the least situationally aware moves I've seen from a good player. Right. I was talking about the rushing TD Fitz had to get to 20 pts. He plowed over Philips there and Philips ran to the sideline and called for a sub cause he was hurt. That’s the play I meant, after he sat on the ball in your pics.
Best Williams Available Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 15 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Actually, White was probably anticipating a fake field goal. He had outside containment and clearly saw the direct snap to the holder. At that point, he can see the holder with the ball and the kicker moving toward the outside in White's direction. He does exactly what he is supposed to do in stepping forward to keep the runner inside. He then moves in to make the tackle (The view from behind the defense in the All 22 below shows this pretty well). Because White initially had to step forward to keep the runner inside, he was in a position to have to make the tackle more from the side than the front. This wasn't a case of taking the runner (a punter) head on and getting run over. It also wasn't a case of "attempting to ankle tackle the kicker" as you originally stated, which, by the way, is different than attempting to make a tackle and ending up bringing him down by the lower legs/ankles. But, I suspect you know that. To describe White as not paying attention, day-dreaming, or making some sort of "worst effort of the game" kind of attempt at a tackle, IMO, is a clear mischaracterization That is my opinion. I have included the video to support my conclusion, and, so that posters can look at it and make up their own minds Good video. Shows more space between Tre and the holder than the CBS angle. Makes it more impressive to me. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 6 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Ahhhhh! my favorite thing about 2 Bills Drive, the wannabee expert! You're welcome. Also, I was on vaca last week and didn't get to mention that when Carolina picked up Ray I predicted with startling accuracy here on TSW that Ray Ray would drop some punts and be cut by the Panthers and end back up on the Bills practice squad this season.
McD Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Best Williams Available said: Good video. Shows more space between Tre and the holder than the CBS angle. Makes it more impressive to me. Don't forget that there was the possibility of a receiver coming off and releasing into the flats/corner, AND the kicker needed to be accounted for as a potential pitch target, so Tre had to be in the position to make the read(s) before reacting. 1
Thurman#1 Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You can't try to tackle a ball carrier like you are in the open field when you are in short yardage. I wasn't impressed. I'm usually spot on with my takes and that's the case here as well. Not well played by White. The interception was a tremendous play. I think he was inspired by not getting the job done on the fake. Nonsense. You're far from spot on here. Tre buries his shoulder in the ball carrier's hip, but he's coming at him from the side, not the front, which means he can't stop his momentum. His primary responsibility here was holding the edge, then making the tackle. In holding the edge he couldn't just run in with his hair on fire. It wasn't a great play but he did his job. Nobody was there to help, unfortunately. 1
Thurman#1 Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 10 hours ago, dave mcbride said: In that sort of situation -- i.e., a genuinely automatic FG in an extremely short down/distance situation -- the only thing you should be playing is the fake. Don't waste effort trying block a chip shot. It's shorter than the old extra point, and they had something like a 99.5 percent success rate the year before they moved the ball back. It shouldn't have surprised them because the only thing they should have been defending against was the fake. Don't try to block an old-school extra point. It never works. If there's one thing that should be obvious from watching field goals this year it should be that they aren't automatic, even the close ones. Pressuring a FG isn't wasted effort. Fair enough that they should have been anticipating at least the possibility of a fake, though.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: You're welcome. Also, I was on vaca last week and didn't get to mention that when Carolina picked up Ray I predicted with startling accuracy here on TSW that Ray Ray would drop some punts and be cut by the Panthers and end back up on the Bills practice squad this season. When will the next earthquake hit?
Recommended Posts