freddyjj Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Awwufelloff said: C at best. Needed tre white to save him. You just went against an 0-5 Miami team at home with fitz at Qb... no excuses to not have the game of your career. Josh definitely needs to hit those long ones. Brown and Roberts were open for TDs. On the other hand, the Bills D was pathetic from 2nd fins drive until the pick at goal line. Josh not at fault there. He wasn't part of Defensive game plan vs Fitz
wiley16350 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, DCofNC said: He's been horrible, but nobody here wants to admit it. People were hating on Tannehill when he was in Miami and thus far, Josh has been a slightly worse version of a young Tannehill. Can he improve? I sure hope so. Right now, everywhere outside of Buffalo, people are questioning how the Bills are winning despite horrible QB play. Here apparently, as long as you get the W, regardless of the 4 of those wins were struggles against the worst teams in the NFL, Josh Allen is God. The sad part is, he's the best QB the Bills have had since Flutie and people think they have something. It's blatantly obvious to the rest of the world, he's headed towards the Bust side of that "boom or bust" lable he had coming into the NFL. That draft class of QBs is not looking good at all. Mayfield looks like a middle of the road type who's attitude may kill him, Darnold has exactly one game to hang his hat on, Allen has perfected coming back after handing games away, Rosen is probably done already and Jackson is pretty good in that system, but not a real thrower at all, but again hype because the team is winning. 2 years from now, people will look back at this draft and question what everyone was so excited about. The year before you had 2 HOF potential QBs fall to 10 and 13 or whereever Watson was taken and nobody from this class is close after going 1,3,7,10 The problem is people like you that get ridiculous and use qualifiers like horrible to describe Allen. He hasn't been horrible (except the Patriots game). He has been good in many areas of Quarterbacking. His intermediate game has been really good and his short accuracy has been good too. In the 3 games I have done, his adjusted completion % is at 83, which is much better than a number of QB's. That won't change in the last 2 games. Only the NE game will have a negative effect on that. That completion % includes accuracy and decision making, so outside of the bad turnovers, he is making good decisions. Those turnovers were mostly about forcing plays and trying to be the hero when the offense is struggling and not really much about his ability to read defenses. The thing with the turnovers is that people like you could at least recognize is that Allen has had 3 games with 0 turnovers so it hasn't been an issue for half of the Bills games. He has also actually been good at reducing sacks. I have credited him with avoiding 28 sacks in a multitude of ways in the 3 games that I have looked at closely. He was only sacked 5 times in those 3 games and I charged him with some fault on 2 of them. That is the biggest area he isn't getting enough credit for. Ultimately, he hasn't been good throwing the deep ball and he has too many turnovers and any supporter of Josh's will admit that but that doesn't mean he has been horrible. Edited October 21, 2019 by wiley16350 1 1 1
thebandit27 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, wiley16350 said: The problem is people like you that get ridiculous and use qualifiers like horrible to describe Allen. He hasn't been horrible (except the Patriots game). He has been good in many areas of Quarterbacking. His intermediate game has been really good and his short accuracy has been good too. In the 3 games I have done, his adjusted completion % is at 83, which is much better than a number of QB's. That won't change in the last 2 games. Only the NE game will have a negative effect on that. That completion % includes accuracy and decision making, so outside of the bad turnovers, he is making good decisions. Those turnovers were mostly about forcing plays and trying to be the hero when the offense is struggling and not really much about his ability to read defenses. The thing with the turnovers is that people like you could at least recognize is that Allen has had 3 games with 0 turnovers so it hasn't been an issue for half of the Bills games. He has also actually been good at reducing sacks. I have credited him with avoiding 28 sacks in a multitude of ways in the 3 games that I have looked at closely. He was only sacked 5 times in those 3 games and I charged him with some fault on 2 of them. That is the biggest area he isn't getting enough credit for. Ultimately, he hasn't been good throwing the deep ball and he has too many turnovers and any supporter of Josh's will admit that but that doesn't mean he has been horrible. Get used to it. From well before the draft it was evident that Allen was the most polarizing prospect in a very long time. There are a lot of people that just don't know how to handle evaluating his play. For me, it's really simple: call it like it is. He looked lost for much of the first half yesterday. Not terribly uncommon for a guy making his 17th NFL start. You know what's pretty rare for a guy making his 17th start? To have a near-perfect 2nd half en route to a 3rd come from behind victory. They're 5-1 and the kid is improved much from where he was a year ago. Relax and enjoy the ride, because nobody knows where it'll end up at this point. But it sure feels nice to be 5-1 with two more home games coming up. 2
Golden*Wheels Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 How do we get 2nd half Josh for a full 4 quarters? That's my concern. 1
thebandit27 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said: How do we get 2nd half Josh for a full 4 quarters? That's my concern. Honestly? Patience. Playing QB in the NFL is perhaps the hardest job in pro sports. This kid has gone from uncrecruited high school kid to 2 years of non-Power 5 ball at Wyoming to starting in week 2 of his rookie season. That he's shown as much growth as he has to this point is really encouraging. But we need to remember that this is a 23 year old kid who's surrounded by largely mediocre talent in the passing game. If we want him to carry the team, we're going have to give him the time to grow into that role. 2 1 4
Gugny Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Honestly? Patience. Playing QB in the NFL is perhaps the hardest job in pro sports. This kid has gone from uncrecruited high school kid to 2 years of non-Power 5 ball at Wyoming to starting in week 2 of his rookie season. That he's shown as much growth as he has to this point is really encouraging. But we need to remember that this is a 23 year old kid who's surrounded by largely mediocre talent in the passing game. If we want him to carry the team, we're going have to give him the time to grow into that role. Amen, brother.
JohnC Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Get used to it. From well before the draft it was evident that Allen was the most polarizing prospect in a very long time. There are a lot of people that just don't know how to handle evaluating his play. For me, it's really simple: call it like it is. He looked lost for much of the first half yesterday. Not terribly uncommon for a guy making his 17th NFL start. You know what's pretty rare for a guy making his 17th start? To have a near-perfect 2nd half en route to a 3rd come from behind victory. They're 5-1 and the kid is improved much from where he was a year ago. Relax and enjoy the ride, because nobody knows where it'll end up at this point. But it sure feels nice to be 5-1 with two more home games coming up. The highlighted area is the issue. Are the physical traits that he demonstrated in college and were assessed by the scouts the same traits that he is going to carry on in his pro career? Or is he steadily going to refine his skills the more he plays? With him the pendulum has a wide radius. He makes some throws that are eye popping, including tight window laser throws. Then he makes some erratic throws and questionable decisions that leave you queasy about whether he can smooth out his game. As you point out he is still a young qb with a lot of room for growth. But the qb position isn't mostly about physical attributes as much as it is about cerebral issues such as mental processing and vision. That's what he is working on. I, like you, see an upward trajectory but not a steady upward trajectory. I'm glad that we are invested in a talented player like him but I'm not at this point going to commit to saying that he will ever be a finished/polished product. Right now I just don't know for sure.
Jerome007 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: I watched the game and the praise was over the top. To be clear I like Jackson and think he might be the guy to turn conventional NFL wisdom on it's head but lets look at the numbers. A couple of folks on 2BD have claimed that playing in Seattle against that defense is a tough assignment. I call BS: Here's how QB's have done throwing the football against Seattle in Seattle: Week 1: Andy Dalton was 35/51 for 418 yards; 2 TD's & 0 INT's. Bengals lost by 1 point. Week 3: Teddy Bridgewater was 19/27 for 177 yards; 2 TD's & 0 INT's. NO won the game. Week 4: G. Goff was 29/49 for 395 yards; 1 TD & 1 INT. LA lost by 1 point. So can we all agree that throwing the football in Seattle isn't the challenge it used to be? Now today Jackson was 9/20 for 143 yards; 0 TD & 0 INT. The difference maker was that Jackson ran the ball 14 times for 116 yards and a TD! BTW, in this game the Raven's offense scored 3 FG's & 1 TD. They had 2 defensive TD's. If Allen had these types of stats and he showed last year that he could match Jackson running the football, much of the football media would be in an uproar. In general, the mainstream football media have a hard on for Black QBs... which is weird as if you want to bring races into the game (like ESPN and others keep doing), Blacks are the clear majority when it comes to NFL players! Ravens with Jackson keep doing like the Bills with Allen: they win. But as you point out, besides the runs, very lowly stats! And their defense scored two TDs yet all they talk is Lamar Lamar Lamar. He is very exciting though, and at the end we want to be entertained. It's just that when I look at the highlight passes he threw and the stats... it says besides the highlight reels he threw a couple of short passes and that's it, all game Well that plus gaining over 100 yards running! Josh WILL have a game with 300 yards passing and 100 yards rushing at one point. He just will. It might be 3 years from now but it will happen
Golden*Wheels Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Honestly? Patience. Playing QB in the NFL is perhaps the hardest job in pro sports. This kid has gone from uncrecruited high school kid to 2 years of non-Power 5 ball at Wyoming to starting in week 2 of his rookie season. That he's shown as much growth as he has to this point is really encouraging. But we need to remember that this is a 23 year old kid who's surrounded by largely mediocre talent in the passing game. If we want him to carry the team, we're going have to give him the time to grow into that role. I'm willing to give him time (what choice do I have, I know). Is inexperience the issue here though? I'm not gonna say he is Jekyl/Hyde 1st half to 2nd....but some games it seems that way. I like that we're making adjustments 2nd half, and that he is able to adjust. Good sign. Just seems inexperience would rear it's head MORE in the second half (where a young guy maybe couldn't adjust, but the other D could). I dunno. Does seem too that his long ball accuracy and mobile game have decline a bit from last year, not grown. The mobility, hey maybe they're trying to smarten him up, i get that. But the long ball at least SEEMED better to me last year.
Jerome007 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Playing QB in the NFL is perhaps the hardest job in pro sports. This kid has gone from uncrecruited high school kid to 2 years of non-Power 5 ball at Wyoming to starting in week 2 of his rookie season. That he's shown as much growth as he has to this point is really encouraging. But we need to remember that this is a 23 year old kid who's surrounded by largely mediocre talent in the passing game. If we want him to carry the team, we're going have to give him the time to grow into that role. I fully agree with the Josh analysis here... but no need to insult the other players. This year he is NOT "surrounded by largely mediocre talent in the passing game". At least average talent. But yes, patience my fellow Bills fans!
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said: How do we get 2nd half Josh for a full 4 quarters? That's my concern. Have him play the first half in Hamiltons CFL game then show up in OP?
Golden*Wheels Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Have him play the first half in Hamiltons CFL game then show up in OP? Haha I almost joked about having him play a quarter of warm up ball.
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said: Haha I almost joked about having him play a quarter of warm up ball. Helicopter him in. Just have tthe Ti-Cats start at 10, LOL 1
thebandit27 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, Jerome007 said: I fully agree with the Josh analysis here... but no need to insult the other players. This year he is NOT "surrounded by largely mediocre talent in the passing game". At least average talent. But yes, patience my fellow Bills fans! I actually didn't mean "mediocre" as an insult. I don't think that Brown, Beasley, Duke, or the TE group qualifies as anything more than average on their best days. And that's okay--IF you have a great QB that can carry a team. We don't have that yet. So, like KC and the Rams, we need to build up the roster with excellent targets in the passing game that give our young QB some freedom to make irresponsible plays if we want to see him have the big-time performances. Either that, or we need to wait for him to grow into the guy that can elevate the Browns and Beasleys of the world. That's all I meant. 1 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 15 hours ago, Chill said: C JA has got to get his head in the game. Too many rookie mistakes for a second year player. Looks immature and has a lot of growing to do. EJ Manualesque. He is still a question mark. Hopefully he will turn the corner soon. ....we'll cut our losses for ya and trade 'em straight up for Trubisky..........SMH......
Jerome007 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 This roster is on the rise and I get your point. IMO it's great that the planned upgrade for the OL and WR corps has panned out, and that to me the TE group, while no superstars, are way better than what the Bills have had for years. Beane has done a great job and still has tons of salary cap room for next year, so we can be optimistic. But my point remains that they are at least average now on offense. Not great, no superstar players, but a good talent spread all around the WRs and OLine that provides very good versatility. Not Top 10 by any stretch, maybe only closing in on Top 15, but not mediocre and far better than last year, that's for sure! 1 1
Don Otreply Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 12 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: 10/11 = 90.9%. Of course anything under 95% is struggling! Oh and check out the official NFL site which has Allen's fourth quarter QB rating after today's game as 139.6! That's almost perfect and every one of those 4th quarters were in close, contested games. Wow! Take that PFF,? pretty freakin excellent imo ?
DCofNC Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 9 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....we'll cut our losses for ya and trade 'em straight up for Trubisky..........SMH...... You can see it in other mediocre QBs, but are blinded by the fact he plays for your team. 6 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Wow! Take that PFF,? pretty freakin excellent imo ? Well, outside of the fact he had to go 10/11 to make his whole game numbers respectable, against the worst team in the NFL, yes, excellent.
Don Otreply Posted October 22, 2019 Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, DCofNC said: You can see it in other mediocre QBs, but are blinded by the fact he plays for your team. Well, outside of the fact he had to go 10/11 to make his whole game numbers respectable, against the worst team in the NFL, yes, excellent. Ya do what ya need to do to win, and really the win loss record is the only stat that matters when it come right down to it, agree? Go Bills!!!
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