Kaepernick Black-balled?

[Wilton Bills]

I like Kapernick but he walked away from a big money deal in San Fran. I had no problem with his protest but sport is business and he cooked himself by opting out of his contract.

[H2o]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except thats not true.  But its cool, I get it, you dont like him.  18TDS to 4 INTS in his final 12 starts with a QBR over 90 says otherwise.  

 

Was he Rodgers or Brady...nope.  But he led a team to the SB, played well enough to get a massive contract, and then...the entire Niners organization and team utterly imploded on itself leaving the roster as one of the worst in the NFL just 2 years removed from the SB.

 

But keep overlooking the facts that he had the worst Head Coach in the NFL in Chip Kelly, his entire team was dismantled in a 2 year window due to all the player losses from suspensions, off field stuff, early retirement, injuries, cap issues, and free agency.  

 

Its hilarious that people want to blame how bad the Niners record was over his final 2 years when he played on the worst roster in the NFL with the worst coaching.  

They were calling for his head in SF before all of the extracurricular stuff started. He lost his job to Gabbert. The first week where did the camera catch him? He was just sitting on the bench, looking like he was sulking more than anything else. Somehow it was made a topic by the media. Kudos to him and his girlfriend for flipping it by the next week into something else. It grew legs and became what it has been. You want to know what type of QB he was at the end? Watch his game against the Bills. That's Kaep, only now he's a few years older. People want to throw his numbers out there, but go back and look at what point of the game he put up those TD's. They were mainly after the game was decided. A garbage TD a week when your team is losing isn't really worth much, but it has been turned into an arguing point like he was better than what he actually was. Harbaugh and Roman got every ounce they could out of him. He had a good run. The NFL figured him out. Force him to play the QB position and he wasn't going to beat you. We do agree that Chip Kelly sucked though. Terrible coach. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

STOP

why is this so important to everyone?

he opted out and I honesty don’t believe he really wants to play anymore.

i wish someone would sign him and throw him out there. He wouldn’t last a game. He doesn’t want to get hit. 

 

[jethro_tull]

I can't tell you what color they are......

[Rob's House]

34 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Very fair point as usual. Without making this overly political, you either support players/people who buck tradition/norms in their fight against management or you don't. Bring that same energy under different, yet similar circumstances. 

 

I happen to support the guy and believe he got a raw deal from the league, but I'm also gonna defend, let's say Nick Bosa, if something odd were to occur.

That's a consistent position because your principle is not content-based. Too many people let their bias override reasoned principle.

 

Personally, I'm okay with bucking trends and fighting management to a point, but I generally err on the side of the freedom of private parties to (or not to) enter into contracts voluntarily. Of course, there are some exceptions, and I have to consider my bias as someone who didn't appreciate his protest. That said,  I would have a problem with an organized effort to boycott a potential employer.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Rob's House

[Alphadawg7]

26 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

I'll accept that you believe everything you said in your first paragraph and simply state that I disagree and leave it at that. We don't need to debate that now.

 

It still sounds to me like you support him because you like him and agree with him.

 

What I want to know is, if a player you liked orchestrated a peaceful protest where he spoke up for people who he thought needed a voice by doing and saying things you found both wrong and highly offensive, would you still want someone to hire him?

 

 

 

Fair question, so happy to answer.  

 

Yes, its football, I would still support him.  I don't care what a player thinks off the field and what he stands up for as long as its not hateful or evil.  I mean I am not going to support a player who peacefully protests for White Nationalists for instance.  

 

Perfect example:  Trump.  I hate the man, and has nothing to do with Red vs Blue, Right vs Left, or the media.  Its 100% about the man and who he really is, and this goes back long before he ran for office.  I know people who have first hand horrible experiences with him involving racism, sexual assault, lies, and basically fraud/con jobs.  He is a terrible person in general, long before he ran for office and my opinion on the matter was set back then too.  

 

HOWEVER:  I do not hold that against athletes or other celebrities I may like who come out and support him, argue on his behalf, or spin the scandals because they have a different view of him formed in different ways.  So if Kap was kneeling to support Trump for example, I wouldn't feel he doesn't deserve to play football.  Just like I don't hold it against some of my friends and family that voted for him.

 

Bottom line:  Every one is different.  IMHO, its ridiculous to black ball a player because you may not agree with his personal opinion on a controversial subject matter.  Plenty of people here think Trump is a Saint while I know him to be the polar opposite of that (and no need for any of us posters to discuss the merits of Trump...I hate him, others love him...no one is changing anyones minds so please no one respond defending Trump to me).   

 

End of day, Kap stood up for something positive and something he believed in...that was equal rights.  That should not keep him from having a job even if someone disagrees with his opinion.  Especially in a league where people like Tyreek Hill not only have jobs, but huge contracts despite choking out his baby mama while she was pregnant with his baby.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[formerlyofCtown]

He shouldnt be bared from playing and isnt.  He just isnt that good.  Barkley is a better option.  We certainly dont need any selfish players in our locker room.

Edited October 16, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, H2o said:

They were calling for his head in SF before all of the extracurricular stuff started. He lost his job to Gabbert. The first week where did the camera catch him? He was just sitting on the bench, looking like he was sulking more than anything else. Somehow it was made a topic by the media. Kudos to him and his girlfriend for flipping it by the next week into something else. It grew legs and became what it has been. You want to know what type of QB he was at the end? Watch his game against the Bills. That's Kaep, only now he's a few years older. People want to throw his numbers out there, but go back and look at what point of the game he put up those TD's. They were mainly after the game was decided. A garbage TD a week when your team is losing isn't really worth much, but it has been turned into an arguing point like he was better than what he actually was. Harbaugh and Roman got every ounce they could out of him. He had a good run. The NFL figured him out. Force him to play the QB position and he wasn't going to beat you. We do agree that Chip Kelly sucked though. Terrible coach. 

 

Again...worst roster in the NFL...worst coaching in the NFL (and one of worst ever in Chip Kelly).  With Harbaugh, he was pretty good.  The last 2 years his HC's were Jim Tomsula (someone no one here even knows who he is) and Chip Kelly (one the worst to ever roam an NFL sideline).  

 

So again, its pretty silly to put it all on Kap with an awful roster and worse coaching around a young QB.  Now I am not saying he is a top tier QB or anything, but the stats over his career show he was worthy of an NFL roster spot.  I mean we are talking about a league that still employs Nate Pickerman and Mike Glennon (on the same team mind you) for instance.  

 

Its not like someone is arguing he should be the corner stone of a franchise...but he is undeniably good enough to play in the NFL, and when he last played it was still better than several of the QBs who have seen the field this year.  Thats my point.  

 

Its pretty unfair to validate denying him a job just because he is not part of the highest tier of said job.  Their are over 70 QB's on NFL rosters right now, its not a stretch to say he is better than more than half of those QB's and worthy of a backup QB spot.  

Edited October 16, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Nester]

Kap is a rich mans Marcus Mariota 

 

Hard pass.

 

 

Could care less about the politics of it all

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

If I were him, I'd sue the league for $10MM per year for as many years I felt I could have played plus treble damages.  Very provable, smacks of racism too.

Already settled.

[DC Tom]

Quote

 

On Sunday night, an undrafted rookie from an FCS school may be playing quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers. 

 

 

And won.  

 

Powerful argument for Kaepernick.

[Tenhigh]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I have no problem with Kaep playing but I also think the longer he's out the less likely tranys think he can still play.

The best part of this thread is Promo's autocorrect.  

Edited October 16, 2019 by Tenhigh

[bbb]

Seems to me the poll (and the way I voted) tells the whole story.  Overwhelming majority says he should be able to play.  Overwhelming majority doesn't want him on their team.  

[clearwater cadet]

I don't really know what this means, but I thought it better than talking about Kaep.

 

 

[Perk71]

Don't care. 

Go Bills!

[Rob's House]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fair question, so happy to answer.  

 

Yes, its football, I would still support him.  I don't care what a player thinks off the field and what he stands up for as long as its not hateful or evil.  I mean I am not going to support a player who peacefully protests for White Nationalists for instance.  

 

Perfect example:  Trump.  I hate the man, and has nothing to do with Red vs Blue, Right vs Left, or the media.  Its 100% about the man and who he really is, and this goes back long before he ran for office.  I know people who have first hand horrible experiences with him involving racism, sexual assault, lies, and basically fraud/con jobs.  He is a terrible person in general, long before he ran for office and my opinion on the matter was set back then too.  

 

HOWEVER:  I do not hold that against athletes or other celebrities I may like who come out and support him, argue on his behalf, or spin the scandals because they have a different view of him formed in different ways.  So if Kap was kneeling to support Trump for example, I wouldn't feel he doesn't deserve to play football.  Just like I don't hold it against some of my friends and family that voted for him.

 

Bottom line:  Every one is different.  IMHO, its ridiculous to black ball a player because you may not agree with his personal opinion on a controversial subject matter.  Plenty of people here think Trump is a Saint while I know him to be the polar opposite of that (and no need for any of us posters to discuss the merits of Trump...I hate him, others love him...no one is changing anyones minds so please no one respond defending Trump to me).   

 

End of day, Kap stood up for something positive and something he believed in...that was equal rights.  That should not keep him from having a job even if someone disagrees with his opinion.  Especially in a league where people like Tyreek Hill not only have jobs, but huge contracts despite choking out his baby mama while she was pregnant with his baby.

 

 

And there's the rub. 

 

I think you're more consistent than most on this, but this is a fuzzy line between an objective principle and a subjective opinion, because we have different ideas of what is hateful or evil.

 

I don't know that I feel that strongly about it (I'm more glad to be American than proud), but some people have very strong feelings about the flag and the anthem and the country, culture, people, and principles it represents. They see this peaceful protest as a hateful indictment of everything they love and stand for. To them, the implication that America, and specifically white America, is racist and oppressive doesn't sound all that different from how a white nationalist sounds to you.

 

I know you don't share that point of view, and I don't expect you to, but I want you to understand it, because it illustrates just how difficult it is to draw the lines objectively.

[Alphadawg7]

One thing I will say:  If anyone harbors resentment towards Kap because he did not stand during the National Anthem...then you better be standing for said National Anthem when you are watching the games at home, at the bar, etc too.  Otherwise, you're just a hypocrite.  

 

Thats like claiming to be "pro-life" while rushing your daughter to the abortion clinic the second she gets accidentally pregnant in high school.  

 

[Tenhigh]

2 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

I don't really know what this means, but I thought it better than talking about Kaep.

 

 

I'll see your Richard Dreyfuss and Raise you a cheif Brody.

[DasNootz]

1 - is he willing to accept a contract in the neighborhood of 1-2 million per season?  Even if he’s a top 30-35 QB, there’s no value in taking him on unless you’re getting a discount to deal with the initial distraction.  I think that distraction will quickly dissipate, but any owner would want to be compensated for the risk.

 

2 - is he good in the film room?  Guys like Barkley and other journeymen have value because they’re capable of helping younger QBs (higher potential) learn to read defenses.  Does Kaep have the same ability to break down tape or was he relying on raw athleticism to improvise? 

 

If the answer to both is “yes” there should be a spot for him somewhere.  If either answer is “no”, he should go to the XFL and build his brand to a point where the NFL can see a better value proposition.

[klos63]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

yet in 2017 turned down NFL offers. Turned down CFL and AAF. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/foxsportsradio.iheart.com/alternate/amp/2017-08-09-clay-travis-believes-seahawks-offered-kaepernick-a-contract/

According to Kaep and his agent, they have not turned down any offers. They have not received any offers or tryouts in 3 years.