Refs this year...opinion?

[thenorthremembers]

The holding calls on long runs have become outrageous.  Block in the back or holding on a kickoff or punt return that goes for more than ten yards is almost predictable.

 

What they need to do is call the penalties that are egregious and obvious, otherwise stop with the judgement calls, because there is too much variability in judgement.   There are way too penalties per game.  I think on average there are 7 penalties per game in the NFL.  Looks like this year the penalties are trending up, on pace for 200 more than last year and 2018.  

 

Rather than add more rules, the NFL needs to scale back the refs impact on the game.  Stress that only very obvious calls are made, and then use technology to further reduce judgement calls, like where to spot the ball and whether a player broke the goal line or not.

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

It sure seems as if the bad officiating of the past has become the terrible officiating of the present.  I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

 

Agreed.  Fish rot from the head.

 

Solution:  make all plays reviewable, allow incorrect penalties (like the hands to the face calls on Detriot last night) to be overturned.

 

Or like this:   

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lurker

[RyanC883]

16 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

It sure seems as if the bad officiating of the past has become the terrible officiating of the present.  I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

 

Al needs to go.  Perhaps there will be some accountability then.  

[row_33]

I don't care about the officials, they are at most 1% of the outcome of a game, and it almost always evens out

 

I haven't cared about an NHL ref for almost 20 years now, couldn't name 2 of them.  Used to be, before helmets, I knew every one of them and their tendencies.

 

 

[KD in CA]

When you keep adding ridiculous rules and subject more calls to replay, and the league then tells them what rules to 'emphasize' or not, the quality of officiating get worse. 

Big ***** shock.  Only been that way for 30 years now.

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

the refs do not have access to slow motion and zoomed in replays during the game.

 

If you do not see the slow motion zoomed in replay, would you even notice the bad calls in real time?

 

Solution - get rid of slow motion replay on plays that are not reviewable, only show slow motion plays on TV on reviweable plays (scoring, turnovers, catches, OPI/DPI) etc.

 

Level playing field for the fans and the refs, seems simple to me

That doesn't solve the problem of poor officiating that is costing teams games.  It only masks it further.  A better solution was suggested by MIke Florio on PFT.  Each game should have an official that is part of the crew that looks at the replays.  He then simply tells the Ref..."pick up the flag; there is no foul."  As to the PI non-call, the NFL screwed the pooch on that one.  Patricia didn't want to challenge it...even though it was obvious...because Riveron doesn't overturn them anyway.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Agreed.  Fish rot from the head.

 

Solution:  make all plays reviewable, allow incorrect penalties (like the hands to the face calls on Detriot last night) to be overturned.

 

Or like this:   

 

 

It was clearly uncatchable... you can’t catch when you’re running around out there with your arms down like a penguin ?

 

and actually my take on the hand to face calls last night was, what a great acting job by David Bakhtiari to act like his head was getting pushed back. Looked authentic... 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

20 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

They've been great.  Just ask the Pats and Packers.

I agree, the ref have always been biased toward the Pats but this year it's on a whole new level. I rewatch our division and some FFL teams on Sunday ticket. So much holding and the Pats skate that grey area on those quick pass pick plays. 

[row_33]

16 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

When you keep adding ridiculous rules and subject more calls to replay, and the league then tells them what rules to 'emphasize' or not, the quality of officiating get worse. 

Big ***** shock.  Only been that way for 30 years now.

 

they never guessed that scrutiny would reveal problems with

 

1) defining PI either way;

 

2) requiring that a TD reception means you have to secure the ball until you've carried it to the shower and on the plane home and placed it safely in your trophy case

 

while a TD run means you can almost have it cross some invisible plane for a microsecond

Edited October 15, 2019 by row_33

[ILBillsfan]

Horrible and inconsistent all year 

 

I’ve said it a few times. Refs need to be graded each week independently and held accountable if they are not making the grade.  No accountability presently so it’s adding to the bad officiating.  Add the New York crew to that grading as well because how they can review some of these plays and not over turn plays is just as bad.  Clean some house

[row_33]

 

 

1 minute ago, ILBillsfan said:

Horrible and inconsistent all year 

 

I’ve said it a few times. Refs need to be graded each week independently and held accountable if they are not making the grade.  No accountability presently so it’s adding to the bad officiating.  Add the New York crew to that grading as well because how they can review some of these plays and not over turn plays is just as bad.  Clean some house

 

you are asking too much from them

 

the better teams and players always push the boundaries of the rules, often creating things that the fans want to see

 

if you are looking for your weaker team to be carried to a win by the refs, stop thinking this way by the time you are.... say..... 16 years old

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by row_33

[ProcessAccepted]

I think it's good, finally it's getting some attention.

[Shaw66]

I don't think the refs have been any worse than usual.  It's a really hard job, the speed of the game is amazing, and they do the best they can.   Having said that:

 

1.  I agree that they should do replay more like college, and have an official watching the video and able to stop the game at any time to review calls/non-calls.  It doesn't slow down the college game, and it allows the refs to get the correct call more often.

 

2.  They should have full-time paid refs, whose only job is officiating.  They should have more training, they should be evaluated more often and better.   They should have more refs, so when one guy isn't getting it done, they can take a guy off the bench, just like the coaches do.  That guy who made the illegal hands to the face call last night should be benched, immediately.   The fundamental rule for officials in all sports is don't call it if you don't see it.   He didn't see the hand on the face, but he called it anyway.   He had the equivalent of a two-fumble game for a running back, and he should be benched.

 

 

[BuffaloBillies]

In 2018, the NFL earned $8,100,000,000 (8.1 Billion). They cant hire 100 full time refs @ $100K/yr (10 Million)?

Each week they could meet in NY Tues-Thurs to go over plays together, do some drills, get rated, educational stuff.

This is a no-brainer to me vs a high school science teacher and a foot locker manager looking at each other wondering what to call or not.

[row_33]

let the refs go, it's ruining your enjoyment of a child's game (all of them)

 

this is for entertainment and maybe a little $$$ on the side (in fun hopefully)

 

you will be mumbling about the refs when you are on your park bench or your hospice deathbed...

 

 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

they never guessed that scrutiny would reveal problems with

 

1) defining PI either way;

 

2) requiring that a TD reception means you have to secure the ball until you've carried it to the shower and on the plane home and placed it safely in your trophy case

 

while a TD run means you can almost have it cross some invisible plane for a microsecond

My wife watches a lot of football with me.  She's pretty knowledgeable for a casual fan.   Last night a guy caught a pass, ran thirty yards downfield, got tackled, lost the ball when he hit the ground.  The defenders ran to pick it up.  I told her it wasn't a fumble.  She asked why, and I explained that the ground can't cause a fumble.   A little while later a guy went into the air, clearly caught the ball, landed on his back in the end zone, the ball popped free.   She asked why it was incomplete, and I explained that on a pass, the receiver has to maintain possession through his collision with the ground and concluded by saying "it's exactly the opposite rule for running backs."  She didn't say anything, but I know she was thinking "that's dumb."

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is blatantly untrue.  There were 3 straight calls against the NYJs on the drive - all of them correct.  Then there were 2 straight calls against Dallas, both of which were correct.  That put Dallas in a 1st and 27 and then Jamal Adams was overly aggressive and got a call against him.  
 

The calls were not bad calls and for the most part they were not even questionable.  I am not sure what the Refs are supposed to do - the Jets were all over the receiver long before the ball arrived.  Are they supposed to ignore it because they have flagged the other team already a couple of times.

 

I get it there are some very questionable calls, but try an suggest it was inappropriate to flag the Jets on that drive or they were trying to help the Cowboys - ignores logic and the fact that 2 of the calls went against Dallas.

My bad.  I shouldn’t go off of what I read online. Terrible post on my part

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

let the refs go, it's ruining your enjoyment of a child's game (all of them)

 

this is for entertainment and maybe a little $$$ on the side (in fun hopefully)

 

you will be mumbling about the refs when you are on your park bench or your hospice deathbed...

 

 

Good point, as far as the fans are concerned.  However, for the players, it's a different story.   They are trained year-round, to be physically excellent and mentally excellent at a very demanding game.  They are damaging their bodies playing the game, because they desperately want to win.   It's a shame for those guys to lose a game, like the Lions did last night, because the officials aren't held to the same standard the players are. 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

My wife watches a lot of football with me.  She's pretty knowledgeable for a casual fan.   Last night a guy caught a pass, ran thirty yards downfield, got tackled, lost the ball when he hit the ground.  The defenders ran to pick it up.  I told her it wasn't a fumble.  She asked why, and I explained that the ground can't cause a fumble.   A little while later a guy went into the air, clearly caught the ball, landed on his back in the end zone, the ball popped free.   She asked why it was incomplete, and I explained that on a pass, the receiver has to maintain possession through his collision with the ground and concluded by saying "it's exactly the opposite rule for running backs."  She didn't say anything, but I know she was thinking "that's dumb."

 

well, catching the ball and running with full possession and three steps landing through the EZ and losing it during the Lambeau Leap, and after 15 minutes they tell me it wasn't a reception......  (dramatic effect but not really...)

 

 

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Good point, as far as the fans are concerned.  However, for the players, it's a different story.   They are trained year-round, to be physically excellent and mentally excellent at a very demanding game.  They are damaging their bodies playing the game, because they desperately want to win.   It's a shame for those guys to lose a game, like the Lions did last night, because the officials aren't held to the same standard the players are. 

 

that's the breaks of the game, it's a Darwinian system where the better talented and prepped win

 

complaining is what most people do when I'm watching with them, whine about the refs, the score, the coaches, the field, their life....

 

i don't buy that the concern is "for the players suffering"....

 

 

[Shaw66]

30 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is blatantly untrue.  There were 3 straight calls against the NYJs on the drive - all of them correct.  Then there were 2 straight calls against Dallas, both of which were correct.  That put Dallas in a 1st and 27 and then Jamal Adams was overly aggressive and got a call against him.  
 

The calls were not bad calls and for the most part they were not even questionable.  I am not sure what the Refs are supposed to do - the Jets were all over the receiver long before the ball arrived.  Are they supposed to ignore it because they have flagged the other team already a couple of times.

 

I get it there are some very questionable calls, but try an suggest it was inappropriate to flag the Jets on that drive or they were trying to help the Cowboys - ignores logic and the fact that 2 of the calls went against Dallas.

At some point, Nantz and Romo were complaining about penalties on every play, but I agree with you.  It wasn't the refs' fault.  You might have argued with one call or another, but they were obviously bad calls.  They were the result of guys trying to make plays and committing fouls.  

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

well, catching the ball and running with full possession and three steps landing through the EZ and losing it during the Lambeau Leap, and after 15 minutes they tell me it wasn't a reception......  (dramatic effect but not really...)

 

 

 

that's the breaks of the game, it's a Darwinian system where the better talented and prepped win

 

complaining is what most people do when I'm watching with them, whine about the refs, the score, the coaches, the field, their life....

 

i don't buy that the concern is "for the players suffering"....

 

 

As I said, I agree with about the fans.  And I agree about bad bounces.   That's the breaks of the game.   

 

But when officiating could be better and the league doesn't do anything about it, I do feel for the players.   I calculated once that true full-time refs, with real weekly training and real weekly evaluation, so that the refs would be as good as they could be and the worst officials were regularly removed the field, would cost about $30 million a year more than they pay for refs now.  That's $1 million per team.   These franchises are making $100 million a year, and they refuse to spend a tiny fraction of that money to minimize human error in the officiating.