syhuang Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/14/something-fishy-happened-in-that-texans-chiefs-call/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It occurred with the Chiefs leading 17-9 in the second quarter, and driving for more with a first down on the Houson 32. Quarterback Patrick Mahomes fired a deep ball to the end zone, and it was intercepted by Texans defensive back Tashaun Gipson. Referee Shawn Hochuli initially informed the fans in the stadium and the TV audience that Texans defensive back Lonnie Johnson Jr. had committed defensive pass interference on Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, with the video showing Johnson grabbing Kelce and driving him into the ground. Then, as the teams were lined up for the next play at the spot of the infraction (the Houston 23), Hochuli and two other officials huddled. During the conversation, one of the other officials clearly can be seen pressing his finger against his ear, it what most likely was an attempt to better hear whatever someone was saying to him. PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called. After the consultation, Hochuli announced “the contact that was potentially a hold was while the ball was in the air; it is not pass interference, because it was not on the receiver that caught the ball.” While a little clunky on the back end, the point was that the officials concluded, apparently with input from either the replay official or 345 Park Avenue, that the blatant hold on Kelce happened while the ball was in the air, and that Kelce wasn’t the intended receiver — making the ball uncatchable as to him and thus resulting in no interference. But the contact on Kelce seems to have clearly commenced and continued before Mahomes threw the ball. Thus, if there was going to be any type of consultation (even if technically unauthorized by the procedures for helping the officials on the field), someone should have told the officials that Johnson committed defensive holding on Kelce, with the interception nullified and possession given to the Chiefs, first and 10 from the Houston 27. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Go to 1:12 to see one of the officials seems to listen to something. Note that the play wasn't under review. Conspiracy? ? Edited October 14, 2019 by syhuang 1
MJS Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 So what's the fishy part? They shouldn't have been talking to the officials at that point in time? Is there a rule against that? 2
syhuang Posted October 14, 2019 Author Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, MJS said: So what's the fishy part? They shouldn't have been talking to the officials at that point in time? Is there a rule against that? From the article: PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called. 1
Augie Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 I would have expected this to happen during a Patriots* game. ? 7 2
MJS Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, syhuang said: From the article: PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called. But why does it mean that? Is that what the rule is? The league can only talk to the officials when there is an official review? I'm just trying to understand the actual rules behind this. 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Does it count if the call from the office is “You idiots ¥}%< up one more call, and your crew will be selling beer in Section 307!!”?
Buffalo716 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, syhuang said: From the article: PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called. Refs are allowed to huddle up tho and change calls They wear an O20 official to official radios Edited October 14, 2019 by Buffalo716 1
Fortunesmith Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Is it out of the realm of possibility that he was simply communicating with an official on another part the field? There's 7 of them. 3
Warcodered Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, MJS said: But why does it mean that? Is that what the rule is? The league can only talk to the officials when there is an official review? I'm just trying to understand the actual rules behind this. I wouldn't be surprised if they just needed clarification on how the rules line up with what they saw but who knows.
MJS Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: I wouldn't be surprised if they just needed clarification on how the rules line up with what they saw but who knows. Yeah, I would expect the officials to be able to contact the league any time they need to regardless of the situation and vice versa, but knowing the league, there's probably some rules around when you can and can't.
GoBills808 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Where in the rulebook does it say referees can't communicate w/replay officials via headset on non-replay review calls?
Nanker Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Screw it. The Chiefs were due for a hosing by the Refs. 1
Buffalo716 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fortunesmith said: Is it out of the realm of possibility that he was simply communicating with an official on another part the field? There's 7 of them. Ding ding ding That's exactly what was going on.. NFL officials use O20 official to official radios They are linked up to all officials so all 7 don't have to huddle
MJS Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Where in the rulebook does it say referees can't communicate w/replay officials via headset on non-replay review calls? That's my exact question. There's only something fishy if the rules state they can't.
xsoldier54 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, syhuang said: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/14/something-fishy-happened-in-that-texans-chiefs-call/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It occurred with the Chiefs leading 17-9 in the second quarter, and driving for more with a first down on the Houson 32. Quarterback Patrick Mahomes fired a deep ball to the end zone, and it was intercepted by Texans defensive back Tashaun Gipson. Referee Shawn Hochuli initially informed the fans in the stadium and the TV audience that Texans defensive back Lonnie Johnson Jr. had committed defensive pass interference on Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, with the video showing Johnson grabbing Kelce and driving him into the ground. Then, as the teams were lined up for the next play at the spot of the infraction (the Houston 23), Hochuli and two other officials huddled. During the conversation, one of the other officials clearly can be seen pressing his finger against his ear, it what most likely was an attempt to better hear whatever someone was saying to him. PFT has learned that replay review definitely was not involved in this decision. This means that no one should have been talking to any of the officials regarding whether or not the call for pass interference should have been changed, or whether some other penalty should have been called. After the consultation, Hochuli announced “the contact that was potentially a hold was while the ball was in the air; it is not pass interference, because it was not on the receiver that caught the ball.” While a little clunky on the back end, the point was that the officials concluded, apparently with input from either the replay official or 345 Park Avenue, that the blatant hold on Kelce happened while the ball was in the air, and that Kelce wasn’t the intended receiver — making the ball uncatchable as to him and thus resulting in no interference. But the contact on Kelce seems to have clearly commenced and continued before Mahomes threw the ball. Thus, if there was going to be any type of consultation (even if technically unauthorized by the procedures for helping the officials on the field), someone should have told the officials that Johnson committed defensive holding on Kelce, with the interception nullified and possession given to the Chiefs, first and 10 from the Houston 27. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't know man. Looked to me like Kelsey was the one holding and he fell down trying to push the defender away. Guess it depends on your point of view. Go to 1:12 to see one of the officials seems to listen to something. Note that the play wasn't under review. Conspiracy? ?
MJS Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Ding ding ding That's exactly what was going on.. NFL officials use O20 official to official radios They are linked up to all officials so all 7 don't have to huddle Ah yes. And they still end up huddling up often, wasting time when they could be communicating via headsets.
HamSandwhich Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 I think the issue is, even if it was not pass interference it was defensive holding and thereby defensive holding. It’s absolutely nuts to me that they gave that ball to the Texans. That turned the game. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 NFL - Uh Sorry about that..... Better luck next time 4 minutes ago, Nanker said: Screw it. The Chiefs were due for a hosing by the Refs. now it is the Pats*** turn 1
Buffalo716 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, MJS said: Ah yes. And they still end up huddling up often, wasting time when they could be communicating via headsets. Yep because zebras are pack animals And need to be Led in a herd 1
syhuang Posted October 14, 2019 Author Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MJS said: That's my exact question. There's only something fishy if the rules state they can't. I didn't locate the exact rules in NFL rulebook but found this article relating to it when quickly googling it. Not sure if anything changes afterward. ---------------------------------------------------------- https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/224822/mike-pereira-wants-to-reveal-nfls-undercover-officiating-program In a conversation this week about his book, "After Further Review," Pereira reiterated and amplified a theory that he first advanced last year -- a premise that makes perfect sense but would undermine the transparency of NFL game administration. According to Pereira, referees regularly receive assistance and advice from replay officials on their wireless headsets, communication that helps them make accurate calls but would be in violation of rules the league itself has published and publicized. "They're never going to come out and admit it because it's not allowed in the rules," he said. "I get that. And I'm not against the notion of trying to get as many calls right as you can, but my only concern is if the rulebook doesn't allow you to do it -- to me, there is a conflict. I get the side of trying to avoid controversy, but I'd rather the rulebook allow it first." ---------------------------------------------------------- Edited October 14, 2019 by syhuang 1
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