Daboll's Forward Handoff: Spreading throughout the league?

[BuffaloTX]

17 hours ago, ngbills said:

There is this thing the Bills do where the Center hikes the ball to the QB kind of like a punt. I watched a few games yesterday and think other teams are copying the Bills on that too. 

 

Josh is not a fan of running stinky fingers

[BillsFan17]

What an interesting thread.

[MAJBobby]

21 hours ago, MJS said:

I was watching the Texans vs Chiefs highlights and recognized a play. It's the same play (or very similar) to the one Brian Daboll has been using with great success in games this year. It's the little forward handoff / pass to Isaiah McKenzie that went for big yards. Not sure what to call the play. It's basically a hand off but counts as a forward pass. We've used this play other times throughout the season and it usually goes for good yardage.

 

The Texans use the same play at 4:44 in the below video (you'll probably have to click through the link to Youtube since the NFL restricts their content):

 

 

The outcome was not favorable for the Texans, but it is obviously a very similar play to what the Bills use. This is probably a play that does not originate with Daboll, but perhaps his success using it has caused other teams to use it more. Here's Daboll calling the same play against the Titans (at 7:44 in the video):

 

 

Very similar alignment. The Bills use an extra receiver as a blocker while the Texans use an extra linemen (or perhaps TE) on the line to block. I wonder if this is taken straight out of the Patriot's playbook since both the Bills and the Texans have coaches that used to be in New England, although off the top of my head I don't remember the Patriots using this (they definitely could have, though).

the Shovel Pass (that is all this is) has been used for YEARS.  The 90s Bills LOVED it with Thruman

[MJS]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

the Shovel Pass (that is all this is) has been used for YEARS.  The 90s Bills LOVED it with Thruman

We're not talking about a shovel pass. That's not all this is.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

22 hours ago, StHustle said:

I havent seen anything from Daboll I would credit him for inventing, thats a tall order for ANY coordinator to do at this point in NFL history, however he is very creative in certain aspects of the playbook and knows how to play to the strengths of roster.

 

That design Run to Roberts was something I don’t remember seeing. 

 

Started tike a jet sweep but blocked like and inside screen. 

 

Seemed new to me

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

We're not talking about a shovel pass. That's not all this is.

it is a Shovel pass and has been used for years.  

 

Just here a Shovel pass to a WR in a Jet Sweep Motion, doesnt change the fact it is nothing more than a Shovel pass and has been used for years.

 

https://www.sportslingo.com/sports-glossary/s/shovel-pass/

 

1. This is a short pass in football where the quarterback passes the ball to a receiver, usually a running back, who’s directly in front of him. It’s similar to a draw play where the quarterback snaps the ball, waits for the offensive line to create a small gap in the middle of the line and then pitches the ball to the running back who’s standing in front of him. The pass is sometimes just a simple flip, rather than an overhead throw since the throwing distance is relatively short.

A shovel pass play is good for short yardage situations, such as along the goal line.

Edited October 15, 2019 by MAJBobby

[MJS]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

it is a Shovel pass and has been used for years.  

 

Just here a Shovel pass to a WR in a Jet Sweep Motion, doesnt change the fact it is nothing more than a Shovel pass and has been used for years.

 

https://www.sportslingo.com/sports-glossary/s/shovel-pass/

It's called a fly sweep and the play design is what this discussion is about, not the fact that it's a forward pass.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, MJS said:

It's called a fly sweep and the play design is what this discussion is about, not the fact that it's a forward pass.

 

It is not anything New.  Again has been used for Years. 

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

It is not anything New.  Again has been used for Years. 

If you would read the thread you would see that I've stated this myself, along with others.

 

The play has exploded in popularity over the last couple of years due to the Rams and Chiefs using it a lot. Previously it was not used often in the NFL, but was a common part of high school and college football.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, MJS said:

If you would read the thread you would see that I've stated this myself, along with others.

 

The play has exploded in popularity over the last couple of years due to the Rams and Chiefs using it a lot. Previously it was not used often in the NFL, but was a common part of high school and college football.

I watched the same play in the 90s.  Then it was called a Reverse or End Around.  Then got called Jet Sweep then Fly Sweep.  just like the Shovel Pass has ben called the tap pass etc.  Same thing Different name

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I watched the same play in the 90s.  Then it was called a Reverse or End Around.  Then got called Jet Sweep then Fly Sweep.  just like the Shovel Pass has ben called the tap pass etc.  Same thing Different name

Those are all different plays from one another.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Those are all different plays from one another.

 

Let me guess the Wildcat was an innovation too?  

 

Same play just run from a different formation and a different name.  Go back an watch the older NFL and you will see the same play as well

 

Bears ran it ALOT with Alshon Jeffery and Forte in the backfield as well

Edited October 15, 2019 by MAJBobby

[eball]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I watched the same play in the 90s.  Then it was called a Reverse or End Around.  Then got called Jet Sweep then Fly Sweep.  just like the Shovel Pass has ben called the tap pass etc.  Same thing Different name

 

End Around -- at the snap an "end" loops behind the QB for a pitch or handoff and heads towards the opposite side of the field.  One handoff/pitch -- no forward pass.

 

Reverse -- starts like an end around but the end then hands off or pitches to another end running in the opposite direction.  Two handoffs/pitches -- still no forward pass.

 

Jet (or Fly) Sweep -- an end is already in motion across the LOS at the snap, then takes a handoff directly from the QB.  It appears that the variation we are seeing most often from Daboll is that the transfer from QB to the end is a forward toss rather than a handoff, which makes it a completed pass rather than a rushing attempt.  Doing it this way also prevents a fumble from being called if the pass drops incomplete.

 

Shovel Pass -- any short pass from the QB to a receiver right in front of him.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by eball

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

End Around -- at the snap an "end" loops behind the QB for a pitch or handoff and heads towards the opposite side of the field.  One handoff/pitch -- no forward pass.

 

Reverse -- starts like an end around but the end then hands off or pitches to another end running in the opposite direction.  Two handoffs/pitches -- still no forward pass.

 

Jet (or Fly) Sweep -- an end is already in motion across the LOS at the snap, then takes a handoff directly from the QB.  It appears that the variation we are seeing most often from Daboll is that the transfer from QB to the end is a forward toss rather than a handoff, which makes it a completed pass rather than a rushing attempt.  Doing it this way also prevents a fumble from being called if the pass drops incomplete.

 

Shovel Pass -- any short pass from the QB to a receiver right in front of him.

 

 

 

So as I said Nothing Daboll has really invented.  always there, Chi ran it a TON with Jeffery

[eball]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

So as I said Nothing Daboll has really invented.  always there, Chi ran it a TON with Jeffery

 

All I saw were some posts making it seem as though these are all the same plays, which they are not.

[Mikie2times]

One play I would love to see resurface more which was a Bills staple in the early 90’s was the direct snap to the RB. No reason that play can’t be just as effective in today’s game.