Saint Doug Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 There’s a common thing amongst all these 1st round failures. The vast majority of these QBs were forced to start the year they were drafted. Apparently gone are the days where QBs are properly developed and mentored. These QBs pop their first year, then fizzle as they can’t reach the next level. Sure, some like Mahomes, if placed on a well-coached team, can do well. But, the reality these teams picked in the 1st round for a reason. Because they suck and are usually being coached by a first time HC. This is just the nature of the beast nowadays.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 25 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Hey Allen haters, here’s a thread that shows how most 1st round QBs in the last decade ended being busts! Take that you idiots! Yeah, I’m kinda confused of the point the OP was making. Kinda makes me feel worse. 1
dous21 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 this might be the dumbest thread I've ever seen on this forum you really thought you had something special with this?
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Saint Doug said: There’s a common thing amongst all these 1st round failures. The vast majority of these QBs were forced to start the year they were drafted. Apparently gone are the days where QBs are properly developed and mentored. These QBs pop their first year, then fizzle as they can’t reach the next level. Sure, some like Mahomes, if placed on a well-coached team, can do well. But, the reality these teams picked in the 1st round for a reason. Because they suck and are usually being coached by a first time HC. This is just the nature of the beast nowadays. The saying is more qbs are ruined than made. I know people hate him but Josh Rosen literally was given no chance to succeed. I have questions about the offensive talent around Allen but he has the huge benefit of having a great defense so he never really has to carry the team.
LabattBlue Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Where is the "history lesson"? Some 1st round QB's are good and some suck? Who would have guessed that?
Pokebball Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 8 hours ago, downunderbill said: I don't think many people think he's a finished product at all, far from it, but his career is 16 games old. The pessimists, or realists as you like to call your selves, are the same as the more optimistic members just at different ends of the spectrum. In the end it's just entertainment, the Bills are 4-1, and some choose to enjoy the game and the Bills. There isn't a poster that believes Josh is anywhere near a completed product. It's this kind of hyperbole that fires up folks. Good post!
ngbills Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Not sure how this list is supposed to help Allen. Saying there are a lot of busts and many that outplayed Allen thus far. Sounds more like this would help show he is more likely to bust.
Pokebball Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The saying is more qbs are ruined than made. I know people hate him but Josh Rosen literally was given no chance to succeed. I have questions about the offensive talent around Allen but he has the huge benefit of having a great defense so he never really has to carry the team. I'm not sure the Bill's defense is the factor in Josh's performance as much as you think it is. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Sundancer said: Goff yes. Mahomes threw for 373 yards and 3 TDs yesterday...and threw his first INT--in 20 minutes time of possession. He's averaging 350 yards/game, with 14 TDs and 1 INT. Every team wishes their QB was falling apart like that. 273 yds. Two hundred seventy three yards, not 373, Three hundred seventy three. There is a significant difference. Also note the fumble. It matters. It may have been a difference in the game. If you consider (as some coaches have said) that a sack can be functionally equivalent to a TO, the 8 sacks and 2 fumbles must be considered. You still have a point that other teams "wish their QB was falling apart like that". Mahomes is a very very talented young QB, no question. I think he may be coming to depend a little bit too much upon his ability to stick the throw no matter what - double coverage, off balance, underhand, sidearm, doesn't matter. Until it goes a step too far and it does. But that's just my opinion and time will tell. I haven't personally watched Goff to have a feeling as to whether or not he's falling apart. He's still putting up good passing numbers, his problem seems to be putting up far more INTs than the last 2 years. Is Gurley a factor - not having Gurley to dump off to, or as much of a run game to take the pressure off of him? My feeling about Goff has always been that he's a QB that can win in the right system with the right pieces around him. Which, by the way, remains to be seen about Mahomes - I know some here contend so, but until we see what he does without Andy Reed, Hill and Kelce the verdict will be out. 24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The saying is more qbs are ruined than made. I know people hate him but Josh Rosen literally was given no chance to succeed. I have questions about the offensive talent around Allen but he has the huge benefit of having a great defense so he never really has to carry the team. I don't think that's how Allen felt last season, and I don't think that's how he felt after the blocked punt for TD against the Pats. I mean, a great D is fine, but unless we're counting on the other team's ST miscues or defensive TDs, sooner or later the O has to put some points on the board
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: 273 yds. Two hundred seventy three yards, not 373, Three hundred seventy three. There is a significant difference. Also note the fumble. It matters. It may have been a difference in the game. If you consider (as some coaches have said) that a sack can be functionally equivalent to a TO, the 8 sacks and 2 fumbles must be considered. You still have a point that other teams "wish their QB was falling apart like that". Mahomes is a very very talented young QB, no question. I think he may be coming to depend a little bit too much upon his ability to stick the throw no matter what - double coverage, off balance, underhand, sidearm, doesn't matter. Until it goes a step too far and it does. But that's just my opinion and time will tell. I haven't personally watched Goff to have a feeling as to whether or not he's falling apart. He's still putting up good passing numbers, his problem seems to be putting up far more INTs than the last 2 years. Is Gurley a factor - not having Gurley to dump off to, or as much of a run game to take the pressure off of him? My feeling about Goff has always been that he's a QB that can win in the right system with the right pieces around him. Which, by the way, remains to be seen about Mahomes - I know some here contend so, but until we see what he does without Andy Reed, Hill and Kelce the verdict will be out. 273 yards would be Allen’s career high and it was against a good team in Houston. But it I guess he set the bar so high so expectations are out of wack.
John from Riverside Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: 273 yards would be Allen’s career high and it was against a good team in Houston. But it I guess he set the bar so high so expectations are out of wack. I think you also have to look at team concept... When you have what might be the best defense in the league you dont NEED to throw for 300 yards a game.JA DOES need to cut down on the turnovers but 250 yards, some TDs, a solid running game, is MORE then enough to win with a defense this good. As shown by the 4-1 record
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: I think you also have to look at team concept... When you have what might be the best defense in the league you dont NEED to throw for 300 yards a game.JA DOES need to cut down on the turnovers but 250 yards, some TDs, a solid running game, is MORE then enough to win with a defense this good. As shown by the 4-1 record I generally agree. However, it would be great to see a monster game once against a good team from Allen. This feels a little Mark sanchez like. And that’s fine because I love a playoff run but it makes me nervous long term.
MR8 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) Nothing in the OP resembles a scientific comparison to say why any of these QBs are good or bad, it's just a list of names with arbitrary commentary on them. Maybe take some time if you're going to claim a 10 year comparison, you get high and mighty telling us you're going to "Give a Lesson" then give us nothing... may you should and I don't know... COMPARE THESE GUYS! Pull the stats from their first years as starters, compare them to the stats from their second years as starters, then third? Show progression of which failed and which succeeded? This thread is the equivalent of a Nathan Peterman pass... it's an attempt that easily gets picked off and taken the other way due to bad execution. Edited October 14, 2019 by MR8 1
John from Riverside Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: I generally agree. However, it would be great to see a monster game once against a good team from Allen. This feels a little Mark sanchez like. And that’s fine because I love a playoff run but it makes me nervous long term. Josh Allen was a VERY raw prospect coming into the league....he is better this year along with a better team around him.....I expect him to be even better NEXT year. I dont feel he is Sanchez like at all......who ***** the bed at the worst times...Josh Allen is his BEST at the key times in a game.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Josh Allen was a VERY raw prospect coming into the league....he is better this year along with a better team around him.....I expect him to be even better NEXT year. I dont feel he is Sanchez like at all......who ***** the bed at the worst times...Josh Allen is his BEST at the key times in a game. I mean we know how Sanchez turned out but he went 5th overall and had similar numbers to Allen. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm I think Philly will be a nice test for him. They are struggling a bit but still have a bunch of talent.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Real McCoy said: This is great. Where did you get it? If he had a Bills logo on his shirt it would be perfect. 1 1
John from Riverside Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean we know how Sanchez turned out but he went 5th overall and had similar numbers to Allen. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm I think Philly will be a nice test for him. They are struggling a bit but still have a bunch of talent. The Titans were not a good test for him? That is a VERY solid defense
ngbills Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Josh Allen was a VERY raw prospect coming into the league....he is better this year along with a better team around him.....I expect him to be even better NEXT year. I dont feel he is Sanchez like at all......who ***** the bed at the worst times...Josh Allen is his BEST at the key times in a game. I feel like the "he is raw" is a cop out. We see guys all the time come out of nowhere with a huge game. Just look at Kyle Allen who in his first game threw for more yards and TD's in a game than our Allen has. Allen has yet to do that. He has had chances but he has trouble playing a complete game thus far. That does not mean he wont. But no excuses, he just hasnt done it yet. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The Titans were not a good test for him? That is a VERY solid defense We scored 14 points. 1 minute ago, ngbills said: I feel like the "he is raw" is a cop out. We see guys all the time come out of nowhere with a huge game. Just look at Kyle Allen who in his first game threw for more yards and TD's in a game than our Allen has. Allen has yet to do that. He has had chances but he has trouble playing a complete game thus far. That does not mean he wont. But no excuses, he just hasnt done it yet. Yup and that’s kinda my point. I forgot the undrafted guy last year from SF who would have monster games last year. Why can’t the highest drafted guy in Bills history? and I get it. We’re winning. I just want to see a complete game from our potential franchise qb. 1
John from Riverside Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, ngbills said: I feel like the "he is raw" is a cop out. We see guys all the time come out of nowhere with a huge game. Just look at Kyle Allen who in his first game threw for more yards and TD's in a game than our Allen has. Allen has yet to do that. He has had chances but he has trouble playing a complete game thus far. That does not mean he wont. But no excuses, he just hasnt done it yet. QBs mature at different progressions...... And if you cannot see the improvements in his game even from year 1 I dont know what to tell you....its there and verifiable both statistically and visably
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