Poyer / Hyde Article from ESPN

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

52 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Very sweet return last week.

Geeze I Completely missed it. 

 

But I feel I  know u @3rdand12.... if u say it happened I better better hit up the nfl rewind app and enjoy.

 

yeah I do Sunday ticket and rewind... here Bills- take my money 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Chicharito]

7 hours ago, NC Book said:

I remember when Poyer was signed, he was dismissed by A LOT of people here because "he wasn't good enough to make the lowly Browns roster". 

I’m not going to lie I was one of them. But I was more like who is this guy we just signed to this contract? Typical bills overpaying scrub talent. Boy was I wrong. I bet not many other members will admit to this.

[LSHMEAB]

9 hours ago, MR8 said:

Fantastic read, I love these two guys.  Poyer is in line for a MASSIVE pay upgrade in a few years, but we've gotta enjoy this rid while we can.  Not sure they can keep him Hyde, and White long term. 

They can most likely keep all 3. Poyer and Hyde will be a little older and safeties don't generally get huge contracts. White will get paid, but we can probably afford to keep him if we choose to do so. I'm not so sure that would be a great investment considering McDermott's ability to pluck guys off the street at the corner position. But we've got a few years to sort that out.

 

The Bills are in terrific cap shape. Not singling you out, but I feel like the teardown has lead some to overestimate the importance/danger of cap space. The good teams are pretty much never under the cap by a great deal. The circumstances would change if Allen becomes a franchise QB, but that would be a great problem to have. 

 

I also think people look at Baltimore with Flacco and extrapolate that paying the QB is going to somehow ruin a team. Baltimore's real problem was that Flacco wasn't a great QB. Good, definitely not great. They overpaid and PAID for that. If Allen is the real deal and earns that contract, good. Look at Seattle. They paid Wilson, shuffled the roster a bit, and are in great shape.

 

But all of these issues are so far down the road that I'm not concerned with it.

Edited October 12, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Geeze I Completely missed it. 

 

But I feel I  know u @3rdand12.... if u say it happened I better better hit up the nfl rewind app and enjoy.

 

yeah I do Sunday ticket and rewind... here Bills- take my money 

uh oh

 no one ever checks me .
Let me know if my senility is as bad as i think it might be.

 More fun though is to watch 97. The Dline set up those sacks for him and he did not disappoint !
 

Hyde and Poyer are Batman and Robin back there.

 please never break up that dynamic duo McBeanes : )

20 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

I’m not going to lie I was one of them. But I was more like who is this guy we just signed to this contract? Typical bills overpaying scrub talent. Boy was I wrong. I bet not many other members will admit to this.

general skepticism was still prevalent for us all back then 

Those who have let it go are better for it.

: )

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

They are amazing together and honestly my favorite safety tandem the bills have had for me anyways 

[Saxum]

9 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I find it hard to believe that Whaley had no part in this. He was amazing with Pro-personnel and had a lot of solid finds. IMHO Bills fans generally try to find a way to downplay anything Whaley touched. I think he did a really good job for a guy that never got to pick his coach and was constantly having to cater to a new scheme. The lack of QB killed him, but we have had good defenses multiple times. 

 

Hyde was on Whaley's list as was Christian Kirksey; saw a tweet from Kirksey about he and buddy may be going on a trip to Buffalo. 

Shortly afterwards Kirksey got a 4 year contract extension.  That was probably a good thing for Buffalo.

Poyer wasn't and it was an Browns' insider who pointed to Poyer's potential. 

Ironic since Kirksey and Poyer were both playing for Browns.

[RocCityRoller]

good insight, good share, thanks

[IgotBILLStopay]

9 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I find it hard to believe that Whaley had no part in this. He was amazing with Pro-personnel and had a lot of solid finds. IMHO Bills fans generally try to find a way to downplay anything Whaley touched. I think he did a really good job for a guy that never got to pick his coach and was constantly having to cater to a new scheme. The lack of QB killed him, but we have had good defenses multiple times. 

Oh, I am not a Whaley basher at all. Far from it. Just recently, on another thread, I was saying that maybe Whaley's Lawson pick wasnt too bad.

 

Hyde, Poyer, Tre were all pre-Beane additions to our roster and mentally, I had been giving both Whaley and McD joint credit for those additions. From OP's article, the Hyde find appears to be solely a  result of McD's "scouting" and the Poyer addition was due to Babich / McD. Thus, my own priors about who deserves credit for the roster additions were updated. Hence the post.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

They can most likely keep all 3. Poyer and Hyde will be a little older and safeties don't generally get huge contracts. White will get paid, but we can probably afford to keep him if we choose to do so. I'm not so sure that would be a great investment considering McDermott's ability to pluck guys off the street at the corner position. But we've got a few years to sort that out.

 

The bolded is an interesting thought, and runs contrary to what many on this board feel.  Tre is a very good corner, though I think I would stop short of elite.  Don't get me wrong, he makes some great defensive plays in a position that is difficult to play, but he gets beat very badly other times.  Levi Wallace might be the better corner at this point.  That could change, but right now I'd take Levi over Tre.  Like you said, fortunately there are a few years, and the rest of this season, to sort that out and see how good Tre really is.

 

I'm not sure I'd want to break the bank re-signing any CB; the money is better spent on the front seven.  I would want McD and Beane to do all they can to keep Poyer and Hyde; that is critical for maintaining a well run defensive backfield.  I'd place priority on the safeties over the CBs, thought I'm just a fan and could be very wrong in my take.

[IgotBILLStopay]

10 hours ago, Jobot said:

 

Agree overall record is solid.  But no way can you state with certainty that the Sammy option was a 'miss'.  Regardless Watkins wouldnt be on the team if we picked up his 1-year option.  And hes hurt again this year.

We kinda diminished Sammy's trade value by not picking up the option. The option was 1 year for 11 million  and he ended up signing a 3 yr 48 million deal. I am not unhappy with the Sammy trade - I think we got fair value given he was bound for a year less. That being said, a small part of me would have liked to have seen  Sammy instead of a hobbled Matthews on that team. We made the playoffs with the latter 2 plus Kelvin Benjamin who was acquired for a 3rd rounder. 

 

McD and Beane always had a dismantle the previous team and stockpile picks to land a franchise QB plan. However, they themselves were surprised by how competitive the 2017 team turned out to be (hence the mid season trade for KB). I think Beane has been on record saying McD spoiled all his plans by making the playoffs - necessitating the use of all that draft capital to move up for Allen and Edmunds.

[Saxum]

57 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Hyde and Poyer are Batman and Robin back there.

 please never break up that dynamic duo McBeanes : )

general skepticism was still prevalent for us all back then 

Those who have let it go are better for it.

: )

 

I am a Green Bay fan as well (no gear yet) and was an advocate of Mr. Hyde.  He had a lot of experience and played every game but 1.

 

In 2018 Jordan Poyer signed a 4 year, $13,000,000 contract with the Buffalo Bills, including a $3,500,000 signing bonus, $7,400,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $3,250,000.

In 2018 Micah Hyde signed a 5 year, $30,500,000 contract with the Buffalo Bills, including a $8,000,000 signing bonus, $14,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $6,100,000.

 

I'd like the Bills to add 2 years to Poyer's contract and 1 year to Hyde's contract telling them they think the dynamic duo need to stay together.

I

[folz]

I remember watching the playoffs that year, and Hyde was all over the field making plays. I so wanted the Bills to go after him. He was my number 1 FA target. I, of course, had no idea who Poyer was when he came, but I did find it interesting, at the time, that Poyer and Hyde shared a best friend (as was reported just after they were signed). I assume that was Kirksey. So, I had a feeling the chemistry between them was going to be good right away.

 

Well, both have exceeded even my very optimistic opinions about them when they arrived. They have been the lynchpin to this defense for three seasons and they are both great leaders on and off the field, a big part of turning this culture around.

 

 

And not that I care much about ESPN these days, but what a breath of fresh air Marcel Louis Jacques is as the AFC East reporter after Rodak and Grahm.

[BigDingus]

17 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

That article makes clear it was McD and not Whaley calling the shots. He gets credit for getting the most out of his defense but IMO doesn’t get enough credit for picking the defensive players to fit his system. Hyde, Porter, Tre, Wallace, Tremaine, Milano, Phillipses etc. have all worked out swimmingly. 

 

Yes the Zay pick and not picking up Sammy’s option were small misses - but overall the record of unearthing diamonds in the rough has been fantastic.

 

Then he also gets the criticism for not being able to evaluate QB talent, electing to pass on Mahomes & Watson, and thinking Nathan Peterman was a capable enough QB to not only draft, but to name as the starter heading into the season. He also traded away a 3rd round pick for Kelvin Benjamin, but glad he at least tried with that one.

But yes, defensively he's been great. Offensively, not so much.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

20 hours ago, Jobot said:

 

Agree overall record is solid.  But no way can you state with certainty that the Sammy option was a 'miss'.  Regardless Watkins wouldnt be on the team if we picked up his 1-year option.  And hes hurt again this year.

 

I think they traded Sammy because they were trying to build up the team with mostly "their" guys and change the culture. He would have cost a lot, which would have handcuffed the team a bit in what they can do to build up the team, and they didn't have a real QB anyways, so why bother? The injuries were concerning, and his comments towards Bills fans didn't help.

[Buddo]

Good article. Thanks to the OP.

 

No two ways about it, Hyde and Poyer are a terrific tandem, and glad we are to have them

 

I also like Limeaid's idea of extensions that keep their contracts timelines together. Poyer definitely deserves some more $.

[JESSEFEFFER]

There may be some good reasons why this would be true but it seems Marcel Louis-Jacque has made more of a presence locally than Mike Rodak ever did.  It seems MLJ has been a guest on practically every radio and podcast at least once and was seeking advice about which seats might be the best to target for the Sabres/Panthers last night.  He seems much warmer to the fans and the team.

 

Hyde and Poyer seem to fit the general pattern.  Beane and McDermott do seem to favor players that have been rejected by others much as we as fans do.

[Logic]

The NFL community's complete inability/refusal to give Hyde and Poyer the credit they deserve essentially constitutes criminal negligence at this point. It's ridiculous.

Best safety duo in the game.

And you know what else? I'm not even sure that Hyde is better than Poyer. 

[Magox]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

The NFL community's complete inability/refusal to give Hyde and Poyer the credit they deserve essentially constitutes criminal negligence at this point. It's ridiculous.

Best safety duo in the game.

And you know what else? I'm not even sure that Hyde is better than Poyer. 

Poyer is good, no doubt.  Hyde is better.

[Logic]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

Poyer is good, no doubt.  Hyde is better.

I know there's more to the story than statistics, but Poyer has more interceptions AND tackles than Hyde the past three seasons. Also, Hyde is more often the traditional center field deep field protector, whereas Poyer often has to play in the box a lot. He plays a crucial role in stopping the run AND leads the Bills in interceptions the past three seasons.

It's a great debate to be able to have, though: Which of our two elite safeties is superior. A long way from the days of Donte Whitner and Ko "I'm worth millions!" Simpson.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Logic

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

Poyer is good, no doubt.  Hyde is better.

does it really need to be defined as such ?

 They are complimentary players. Playing different roles for the most part.

 I bet they would agree with me

: )