RG tapping center to start play? (Timing of snap)

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

29 minutes ago, NC Book said:

I remember when the line used to hold hands when it was too loud to hear. As soon as your inside hand moved, you can move also. 

Good lord!  How many hands does the centre have?!  ?

[Boca BIlls]

13 hours ago, timekills17 said:

While watching the All-22 I noticed when JA lined up in shotgun that the RG would check the line for set, and would tap the center just before the snap.

You can see some good examples of this in the 1st and 3rd quarters of the all-22 footage because the camera is to the Bills back in those quarters. For example< watch the Bills' first offensive series starting around the 4 minute mark of the all-22 footage.

The RG signaling the center that the line is set isn't that unusual; what interested me was the timing of the snap did not seem to vary after the tap for the entire game.

I'll have to watch this and see if they're trying to set the opponent's d-line up at some point by delaying the snap to pull an encroachment/Offside. I assume this was their version of the silent snap to combat crowd noise (not that crowd noise was a problem this week.) It was a little concerning that the entire game, probably 70% in shotgun, the timing was tap, half-second delay, snap. If I were a left side d-line/LB I'd key off that at least once.

All teams do it.

[MAJBobby]

13 hours ago, timekills17 said:

 

Yes - I wrote that in my OP.

That wasn't the question I posed; it was reference the lack of changing the timing the entire game.

but it is same all over the NFL. Footlift, clapping etc. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

13 hours ago, TroutDog said:

That’s how they tell the center to snap when it’s too loud. It’s happened for years. 

 

 

And it is annoying, Trout.

 

How many times do we have to tell our 40,000 Bills road fans, "Don't cheer when we have the ball!"?

 

They better fix this before the Miami road game or this is going to be a problem.

[CuddyDark]

Isn't this because some C can't look between their legs for the snap?

[Saint Doug]

14 hours ago, TroutDog said:

That’s how they tell the center to snap when it’s too loud. It’s happened for years. 

 

True. I just went through the Pats film library and they have a whole section devoted to this. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

40 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

 

True. I just went through the Pats film library and they have a whole section devoted to this. 

Clip #1:  Kraft putting ??? in ?.

Clip #2:  ? arrives at NFL Referees Association HQ.

Clip #3:  ??? ▶️▶️▶️  NFLRA HQ.

Clip #4:  Scoreboard:  NE:              42

                                       Opponent.    3

[The Dean]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

but it is same all over the NFL. Footlift, clapping etc. 

 

I think you are missing the point of his question. Mostly not about the touching, clapping, footlift, but about the TIMING. Snapping 1 (or 2) seconds after the tap, on every play, is the main issue here. Going on the same snap count all game. 

 

At least I think that's the OP's major point.  And yes, it would serve them well to vary the timing throughout the game to keep the defense honest. Of course, you risk more offensive movement penalties as well.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, The Dean said:

 

I think you are missing the point of his question. Mostly not about the touching, clapping, footlift, but about the TIMING. Snapping 1 (or 2) seconds after the tap, on every play, is the main issue here. Going on the same snap count all game. 

 

At least I think that's the OP's major point.  And yes, it would serve them well to vary the timing throughout the game to keep the defense honest. Of course, you risk more offensive movement penalties as well.

 

But most of the the time the Clap or the leg lift means ready for the ball there is not really a snap count.  The tap is telling the center the QB is ready for the snap.  In the huddle it is called on the Ball or on movement.  So there really is no snap count.  just the QB telling the center they are ready for the snap.

[auburnbillsbacker]

18 hours ago, timekills17 said:

While watching the All-22 I noticed when JA lined up in shotgun that the RG would check the line for set, and would tap the center just before the snap.

You can see some good examples of this in the 1st and 3rd quarters of the all-22 footage because the camera is to the Bills back in those quarters. For example< watch the Bills' first offensive series starting around the 4 minute mark of the all-22 footage.

The RG signaling the center that the line is set isn't that unusual; what interested me was the timing of the snap did not seem to vary after the tap for the entire game.

I'll have to watch this and see if they're trying to set the opponent's d-line up at some point by delaying the snap to pull an encroachment/Offside. I assume this was their version of the silent snap to combat crowd noise (not that crowd noise was a problem this week.) It was a little concerning that the entire game, probably 70% in shotgun, the timing was tap, half-second delay, snap. If I were a left side d-line/LB I'd key off that at least once.

Shhhh.  No leaks.  

[LeGOATski]

12 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

It's an exception to the false start rule, which allows the guard to move in order to signal the center.

I don't think it is. False starts are determined by the feet/legs after the OL is settled. The G is still not allowed to move their feet when tapping.

[Freddie's Dead]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I don't think it is. False starts are determined by the feet/legs after the OL is settled. The G is still not allowed to move their feet when tapping.

 

I've seen false starts called on arm and head movements.

 

Item 3. Player Under Center. It is legal for a player who has taken a position under or behind the center to go in motion, whether he has placed his hands under center, on his knees, or on the body of the center. However, it is a False Start, if the action is quick and abrupt. If the player fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the ball being snapped, it is Illegal Motion.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Freddie's Dead

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I've seen false starts called on arm and head movements.

I can't remember the last time I've seen that. OL are moving their arms and heads all the time while communicating before the snap. That's not a false start.

 

False start is when they move or flinch the feet/legs.

3 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Clip #1:  Kraft putting ??? in ?.

Clip #2:  ? arrives at NFL Referees Association HQ.

Clip #3:  ??? ▶️▶️▶️  NFLRA HQ.

Clip #4:  Scoreboard:  NE:              42

                                       Opponent.    3

The true silent count

[Freddie's Dead]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

I can't remember the last time I've seen that. OL are moving their arms and heads all the time while communicating before the snap. That's not a false start.

 

I updated my post earlier with the rule that says a lineman behind the center can put hands on the center.  Our difference here may be in 2- or 3-point stance.  I think we're actually in violent agreement.

[WideNine]

22 hours ago, timekills17 said:

 

Yes - I wrote that in my OP.

That wasn't the question I posed; it was reference the lack of changing the timing the entire game.

 

I've brought this up before too. One way to slow that pass rush is to vary the snap count more than they do.

 

A long READY hut-hut almost every play allows defenses to jump the count.

 

They did the same thing last year assumed our line was so bad it had to be predictable to limit the pre-snap penalties.

Edited October 9, 2019 by WideNine

[LeGOATski]

14 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I've seen false starts called on arm and head movements.

 

Item 3. Player Under Center. It is legal for a player who has taken a position under or behind the center to go in motion, whether he has placed his hands under center, on his knees, or on the body of the center. However, it is a False Start, if the action is quick and abrupt. If the player fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the ball being snapped, it is Illegal Motion.

That is talking about players under center. Not OLmen

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

That is talking about players under center. Not OLmen

 

Then I got nothing, it's not covered in the rules.  Looks like an unwritten rule that permits this movement by a guard not to be called a false start.

[Cripple Creek]

18 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Isn’t this what you would call a “tell”?  
 

Time the tap to snap and get a jump. 

Sure, unless it's changed up. Defenses would be extremely vulnerable on "critical" plays.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

4 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

And it is annoying, Trout.

 

How many times do we have to tell our 40,000 Bills road fans, "Don't cheer when we have the ball!"?

 

They better fix this before the Miami road game or this is going to be a problem.

It doesn’t matter in Miami they have a 10,000,000$ sound system that pipes in crowd noise. 

 

Miami was the most annoying stadium I have ever gone too. That 1st down chant is so damn lame”Thats another Miami Dolphins 1st down”. Most of the area around the stadium looks like a demilitarized zone, every house has bars on the windows and doors. 

 

It smells like dead fish in a 20 mile radius of the stadium. 

 

The Dolphins should get fined for piping in that much fake crowd noise.

[The Dean]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

But most of the the time the Clap or the leg lift means ready for the ball there is not really a snap count.  The tap is telling the center the QB is ready for the snap.  In the huddle it is called on the Ball or on movement.  So there really is no snap count.  just the QB telling the center they are ready for the snap.

 

 

Gotcha. But some teams vary how long they actually snap the ball after the "signal". In other words, they don't always snap it 1 second after the tap, for example. They vary the timing after the "all set" signal. Now I'm not sure how they go about that, but it seems some teams keep the D off balance a bit more. Just my observation.