Zay Jones traded to Raiders for 5th rounder

[JMF2006]

2 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

In between muggings and car jackings, perhaps Raider Nation will appreciate Jones’ contesting for balls with opposing defensive backs.

 

He can't even catch the ball when he is wide open :(

Edited October 8, 2019 by JMF2006

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Certainly, Zay showed he was incapable of being the WR they needed or wanted him to be.

 

 

 

We differ.  If my bullseye has a time component and I don't make the time component, partial credit at best.

 

Read my OP instead of the thread title...

[Irv]

One and a half years of community college graphic arts classes down the drain. 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Irv

[SoTier]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He didn't get cut

 

 

Sorry, off by 5 weeks counts as nailed, it does not.

 

At any rate, I've been strongly disappointed by Zay myself, but to my eyes he could play in the NFL - block and run routes and catch.   He wasn't a good WR, a #1 or #2 but he does belong on an NFL roster IMO.  

This is going to sound snarky but it's sincere: I hope I and the fans who are expressing the "good riddance" "street FA could play better" "PS guys could play better" "McKensie and Foster can play better" sentiments don't regret the move later this season if the injury bug bites our WR corps.

 

I like much of what I see from McDermott and Beane but I think their offensive side depth decisions aren't always on point.  RB would be an example this season so far.

 

This is my worry, too.  It appears to me, like releasing McCoy, that this is just another short-sighted move on the offensive side of the ball simply to save a relatively few dollars.  In the case of Jones, it's more like a case of saving pennies in terms of NFL salaries (Zay made about $ 1 million, Johnson makes about half of that).

 

I have never been a fan of Zay Jones but the Bills aren't that loaded with WR talent that Jones couldn't have a place on the depth chart.  Except from Beasley and Brown, the Bills WR corps is now made up of players who are suspect NFL talent.  Robert Foster is an UDFA in his 2nd season.  Isaiah McKenzie is an UDFA in his 3rd season.   Duke Williams is a refugee from the CFL via the PS in his first NFL season .  Andre Roberts is in his 10th NFL season but he's primarily a kick returner.   The Bills WR corps is simply not good enough for today's NFL, even if they had Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson under center.

 

IMO, Beane and McDermott treat the offense like the proverbial "red headed step child".   They don't cut/trade defensive starters just to save some $$$ but seem to hoard talent.  They got a first class QB prospect, but surrounded him with mediocre/poor talent, and then expect him to carry the team.  On defense, coaching and scheme can hide a lot of deficiencies, but lack of speed, size, vision, elusiveness, and/or pass catching ability by WRs and RBs can't be coached or schemed around so easily.

 

For Beane and McDermott, it's a win-win situation. 

• If Allen turns out to be a super talent, then the Bills make the playoffs and have some success and Beane and McDermott are hailed as "geniuses". 
• If Allen doesn't develop into a super talent immediately and the Bills don't even make the playoffs, Allen gets most of the blame, and Beane and McDermott are off the hook until Allen is labeled a "bust", which could take several more years (see Bortles, Winston, and Mariota).

If you think I'm just being "negative" in this view, consider that the Bills didn't even bother to hire a real QB coach for Allen last season.  David Culley, the Bills QB coach in 2018, hadn't actually coached QBs since the 1980s when he coached QBs for a year at the collegiate level.  If the Bills don't make the playoffs this season, Josh Allen might be part of the problem, but McDermott and Beane will bear far more responsibiliy for it.

 

1 minute ago, freddyjj said:

A no brainer for Raiders if they keep him for 2 years.  His contract expires at end of 2021 and if he signs elsewhere they could still get a comp pick for him in that draft.  That would possibly make up for what they gave up for him.  

 

What would be even worse is if Jones becomes a productive WR for the Raiders when he's not expected to be a #1 or #2.  I'm not expecting much from Jones, but Jerry Hughes was considered a bust on his original team.

[transplantbillsfan]

Without reading 18 pages, are the posters like @JoPar_v2 @LSHMEAB & @LOVEMESOMEBILLS hiding right now or are they owning up to Zay not being the "established NFL WR" some on here believe he was?

 

I can't believe we got a 5th for him!

 

Even if it's for 2021. Great job Beane!

Edited October 8, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

13 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Zay’s value couldn’t have been worse. Happy we at least got something for him.

 

Yeah that's why I'm happy we got a 5th, even if it's in 2021.

 

Really wish we traded him before the season when his value was at its peak.

 

I guess Beane just really liked the kid and wanted to give him another shot.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Without reading 18 pages, are the posters like @JoPar_v2 @LSHMEAB & @LOVEMESOMEBILLS hiding right now or are they owning up to Zay not being the "established NFL WR" some on here believe he was?

 

I can't believe we got a 5th for him!

 

Even if it's for 2021. Great job Beane!

Eh, I think @LSHMEAB one of the more astute posters on this board. Hapless, too, who rightly points out that Jones is an NFL wr, just not a #2 or even maybe a #3. I'm disappointed he didn't work out and I agree with SoTier, who otherwise I consider too much in the habitual darksider crowd, that evaluation on the offensive side is still a question mark with this regime. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Without reading 18 pages, are the posters like @JoPar_v2 @LSHMEAB & @LOVEMESOMEBILLS hiding right now or are they owning up to Zay not being the "established NFL WR" some on here believe he was?

 

I can't believe we got a 5th for him!

 

Even if it's for 2021. Great job Beane!

real cool calling folks out.

 

fare well on your next journey zay.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Same here.... Zay defied logic. He looked the part athleticism etc to be a good #2. Just melted into a puddle of goo at every turn. 

 

Oh oh well on we go. Good to have a wr with a number in the 80’s 

 

His deep ball tracking was honestly my biggest issue with him.  He was solid on the deep crossers - his hands improved from year 1 - he just couldn't get on the same page as Allen on deep passes and they want foster there on gamedays i think.

[SCBills]

I'm fully prepared for him to take the #2 role with the Raiders and have some 6 catch, 80 yards and a TD games, but it just wasn't going to work here.

[Nihilarian]

Zay Jones had a 38.9 catch percentage so far this season, which means he caught less the half the passes thrown his way. You can't waste so many offensive opportunities. 

 

So, go ahead and blame Josh Allen and his accuracy issues...until you see that Duke Williams had 4 passes thrown his way and caught all four. One for a TD!

 

Jones was productive last season with 102 targets, 56 receptions for a 54.9 percentage, 7 TDs. While being Allen's main target. Still, his alligator arms and inability to fight for a contested ball is what caused the fan scorn. 

 

Someone mentioned that Jones had 158 receptions for 1746 yards in his senior year at East Carolina which is pretty spectacular. So I can understand why the Bills drafted him with a second round pick.  Sometimes those gaudy stats simply don't translate to the NFL. Perry Tuttle anyone?

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This is my worry, too.  It appears to me, like releasing McCoy, that this is just another short-sighted move on the offensive side of the ball simply to save a relatively few dollars.  In the case of Jones, it's more like a case of saving pennies in terms of NFL salaries (Zay made about $ 1 million, Johnson makes about half of that).

 

I have never been a fan of Zay Jones but the Bills aren't that loaded with WR talent that Jones couldn't have a place on the depth chart.  Except from Beasley and Brown, the Bills WR corps is now made up of players who are suspect NFL talent.  Robert Foster is an UDFA in his 2nd season.  Isaiah McKenzie is an UDFA in his 3rd season.   Duke Williams is a refugee from the CFL via the PS in his first NFL season .  Andre Roberts is in his 10th NFL season but he's primarily a kick returner.   The Bills WR corps is simply not good enough for today's NFL, even if they had Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson under center.

 

IMO, Beane and McDermott treat the offense like the proverbial "red headed step child".   They don't cut/trade defensive starters just to save some $$$ but seem to hoard talent.  They got a first class QB prospect, but surrounded him with mediocre/poor talent, and then expect him to carry the team.  On defense, coaching and scheme can hide a lot of deficiencies, but lack of speed, size, vision, elusiveness, and/or pass catching ability by WRs and RBs can't be coached or schemed around so easily.

 

For Beane and McDermott, it's a win-win situation. 

• If Allen turns out to be a super talent, then the Bills make the playoffs and have some success and Beane and McDermott are hailed as "geniuses". 
• If Allen doesn't develop into a super talent immediately and the Bills don't even make the playoffs, Allen gets most of the blame, and Beane and McDermott are off the hook until Allen is labeled a "bust", which could take several more years (see Bortles, Winston, and Mariota).

If you think I'm just being "negative" in this view, consider that the Bills didn't even bother to hire a real QB coach for Allen last season.  David Culley, the Bills QB coach in 2018, hadn't actually coached QBs since the 1980s when he coached QBs for a year at the collegiate level.  If the Bills don't make the playoffs this season, Josh Allen might be part of the problem, but McDermott and Beane will bear far more responsibiliy for it.

 

 

What would be even worse is if Jones becomes a productive WR for the Raiders when he's not expected to be a #1 or #2.  I'm not expecting much from Jones, but Jerry Hughes was considered a bust on his original team.

 

Jerry Hughes played behind two All Pros in Freeney and Mathis....

Zay has had opportunity after opportunity.....

Edited October 8, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Zay Jones had a 38.9 catch percentage so far this season, which means he caught less the half the passes thrown his way. You can't waste so many offensive opportunities. 

 

So, go ahead and blame Josh Allen and his accuracy issues...until you see that Duke Williams had 4 passes thrown his way and caught all four. One for a TD!

 

Jones was productive last season with 102 targets, 56 receptions for a 54.9 percentage, 7 TDs. While being Allen's main target. Still, his alligator arms and inability to fight for a contested ball is what caused the fan scorn. 

 

Someone mentioned that Jones had 158 receptions for 1746 yards in his senior year at East Carolina which is pretty spectacular. So I can understand why the Bills drafted him with a second round pick.  Sometimes those gaudy stats simply don't translate to the NFL. Perry Tuttle anyone?

 

Yup.  Zay might be decent in Oakland, but he's not as good as Duke seems to be, at least as good as he seems to be in our system. 

 

With Foster hopefully getting healthy and Duke taking his spot, we did the right thing by moving him.

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I'm fully prepared for him to take the #2 role with the Raiders and have some 6 catch, 80 yards and a TD games, but it just wasn't going to work here.

 

this could happen, and if it does I fully expect there to be a large contingent of "beane doesn't know what he's doing with WR's" posters on this board. That being said, sometimes players just don't work one place and they do the next. It's usually as much on the player as it is on the team. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I was willing to give him time as he’s had a lot of different QBs since he came here but this season I began to think that any throw to him was just a wasted down. 

 

Yeah, I was coming towards that viewpoint myself. 

 

I started to write a post a couple days ago about how maybe Zay just wasn't the right fit for this bit-of-a-wild-man QB and the offense Daboll wants to run.  I got into it and started writing: We all know the guy can't play deep.  As someone said, he is not fleet of foot, he does not get separation, he does not track the ball and adjust.  Watching Brown and Beasley I have to say, he can't really be relied upon make those contested catch over the middle.  He struggles to release, he struggles to stay on his route against physical coverage, he doesn't have an extra gear for a ball thrown out in front of him.  And, there have been too many instances where he has a catch and just can't haul it in - lacks focus.

 

So then I got to, just where would he be a great fit?  Maybe for a mature, very experienced and precise QB and an offense that runs lots of screens?

 

He works hard, he knows and can run the route tree, he blocks willingly, he just seems to lack that fire in his belly, maybe what the players call "the dawg in him".  He just doesn't make it happen.

 

24 minutes ago, SoTier said:

This is my worry, too.  It appears to me, like releasing McCoy, that this is just another short-sighted move on the offensive side of the ball simply to save a relatively few dollars.  In the case of Jones, it's more like a case of saving pennies in terms of NFL salaries (Zay made about $ 1 million, Johnson makes about half of that).

 

I don't think, with Jones, it's a case of saving pennies at all.  I think they wanted something from Zay (playing with more competitiveness or fire perhaps) and they wanted something from Duke (learning the offense and route tree better).  They got the latter, they didn't get the former, so Good-bye Zay.

 

I think it would have made sense to leave him on the roster as a backup, but maybe they plan to make a move.  And maybe there was some stuff behind the scenes - certainly Zay's Dad has tweeted Big Attitude about Allen as a QB, and maybe that reflects something Zay is quiet about, but feels and it shows a bit.

 

But yeah, I am concerned that Beane and McDermott still don't give the offense its propers.  But it may be that it's just lagging a year behind.  Last year we had a good D but not enough depth.  This year built depth and added starters to the O.  Maybe next year more depth.

 

Quote

For Beane and McDermott, it's a win-win situation. 

• If Allen turns out to be a super talent, then the Bills make the playoffs and have some success and Beane and McDermott are hailed as "geniuses". 
• If Allen doesn't develop into a super talent immediately and the Bills don't even make the playoffs, Allen gets most of the blame, and Beane and McDermott are off the hook until Allen is labeled a "bust", which could take several more years (see Bortles, Winston, and Mariota).

If you think I'm just being "negative" in this view, consider that the Bills didn't even bother to hire a real QB coach for Allen last season.  David Culley, the Bills QB coach in 2018, hadn't actually coached QBs since the 1980s when he coached QBs for a year at the collegiate level.  If the Bills don't make the playoffs this season, Josh Allen might be part of the problem, but McDermott and Beane will bear far more responsibiliy for it.

 

I think Daboll believed he would have time to coach Josh Allen more than he actually did at the NFL level.  Josh mentioned something about the difference this year where Daboll didn't have to sit in the QB room.  There's tape out there of Daboll working heavily with the QBs at 'bama.

 

I also think McDermott asked Daboll to come in and try to work with many of the coaches already in place - Castillo, Culley, etc.  After Daboll got the O to show improvement through the season and could make a case for what he needed to take another step, he built cred with McDermott and got to bring in his own guys.  We had a lot of churn in the offensive assistants this off season.

 

But there still are some real head-scratchers in the whole offensive picture, I won't rehash here.

[CardinalScotts]

13 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Didn't we use 6 second round draft picks to move up and get Zay?  Flipping for a future 5th rounder is pretty disappointing.

landing Duke covered this bad pick with interest. If your critical on one hand you have  to praise the other side

[ndirish1978]

Zay was so utterly replaceable that Duke Williams allowed us to make this move by simply catching the balls that were thrown to him in a single game.

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This is my worry, too.  It appears to me, like releasing McCoy, that this is just another short-sighted move on the offensive side of the ball simply to save a relatively few dollars.  In the case of Jones, it's more like a case of saving pennies in terms of NFL salaries (Zay made about $ 1 million, Johnson makes about half of that).

 

I have never been a fan of Zay Jones but the Bills aren't that loaded with WR talent that Jones couldn't have a place on the depth chart.  Except from Beasley and Brown, the Bills WR corps is now made up of players who are suspect NFL talent.  Robert Foster is an UDFA in his 2nd season.  Isaiah McKenzie is an UDFA in his 3rd season.   Duke Williams is a refugee from the CFL via the PS in his first NFL season .  Andre Roberts is in his 10th NFL season but he's primarily a kick returner.   The Bills WR corps is simply not good enough for today's NFL, even if they had Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson under center.

 

Half the NFL is made up of UDFA and late round picks.  In fact, nearly 30% is made up of UDFA players alone.

 

Going into his senior season, Duke was considered the top NFL WR prospect before off field stuff would get him kicked off the team.  Had he come out after us junior year he was expected to have been a first or second round pick that year.

 

Doesn't matter how you get to the NFL, once you’re here your path to get here or draft status is 100% irrelevant.  

 

So puzzling you want to dismiss all our receivers for being UDFA players.  Especially since our worst WR was our highest drafted one in Zay.  And last year our worst WR was a former first round pick.

 

Draft position is irrelevant, it’s what you do on the field.

 

That being said, I’m sure Beane is still going to add to the WR room either via trade for one of the rumored guys available or this offseason.  Point is, all the guys on our team have been offering more than Zay was, so this was the right move for this team right now

 

Quote

IMO, Beane and McDermott treat the offense like the proverbial "red headed step child".   They don't cut/trade defensive starters just to save some $$$ but seem to hoard talent.  They got a first class QB prospect, but surrounded him with mediocre/poor talent, and then expect him to carry the team.  On defense, coaching and scheme can hide a lot of deficiencies, but lack of speed, size, vision, elusiveness, and/or pass catching ability by WRs and RBs can't be coached or schemed around so easily.

 

Huh?  We signed a gazillion offensive players this offseason and also drafted 3 offensive players in the first 4 rounds.  Not to mention in Beane’s first draft he did everything he needed to do to draft the QB he coveted.  So I am puzzled you think this.

 

Quote

 

For Beane and McDermott, it's a win-win situation. 

• If Allen turns out to be a super talent, then the Bills make the playoffs and have some success and Beane and McDermott are hailed as "geniuses". 
• If Allen doesn't develop into a super talent immediately and the Bills don't even make the playoffs, Allen gets most of the blame, and Beane and McDermott are off the hook until Allen is labeled a "bust", which could take several more years (see Bortles, Winston, and Mariota).

If you think I'm just being "negative" in this view, consider that the Bills didn't even bother to hire a real QB coach for Allen last season.  David Culley, the Bills QB coach in 2018, hadn't actually coached QBs since the 1980s when he coached QBs for a year at the collegiate level.  If the Bills don't make the playoffs this season, Josh Allen might be part of the problem, but McDermott and Beane will bear far more responsibiliy for it.

 

I do think this is a bit of being negative.  It over looks all the things they have done to try and help Josh this year develop and have the tools to succeed.

 

And we are 4-1 and should be 5-0

 

Quote

 

 

What would be even worse is if Jones becomes a productive WR for the Raiders when he's not expected to be a #1 or #2.  I'm not expecting much from Jones, but Jerry Hughes was considered a bust on his original team.

 

Not worried about this.  And if he does, good for him, but it doesn’t matter, because he wasn’t productive here and wasn’t getting any better here.  Sometimes a change of scenery can help a player, and if it does, then great for Zay.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

real cool calling folks out.

 

fare well on your next journey zay.

 

So sensitive!

 

Fact of the matter is that some posters thought Zay should have never been on the team at all this year. @Alphadawg7 being the first on board probably.

 

I wish no I'll will on Zay, I just don't think he belongs on a football field until he gets his head straight, which might be never.

 

From the time in the preseason that he couldn't reel in that pass from Allen by the EZ before getting hit, which coincided with the rise of Duuuuuuuke, a number of us wanted Zay off the team in large part so Duke could be on. 

 

Zay just sucks right now and has for his career. Yes, expectations were high for him, so that factors in, but I can't remember a Wr we've had that I whoop out of near shock so loud when he actually catches the football. And sadly that's not hyperbole.

 

Happy trails Zay, I hope you turn your career around, but I'm happy I never have to type your name in on my tablet and get "Zay" automatically changed to "Say" again!

[C.Biscuit97]

42 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

He can't even catch the ball when he is wide open :(

I was not a Zay fan but the one skill he had that was really good were his hands. I believe confidence affected him.  He had some drops, won’t get that many opportunities, and probably over thought everything. I’m more than fine with him leaving but with a dink and dinker like Carr, I can see him making some plays.  But he will never be anything special.