Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 12, 2005 Posted April 12, 2005 Neither have I but I'm blessed with an imagination. So predictable. 302710[/snapback] That you're imagining the taste of a skunk's ass doesn't do you a whole lot of credit either.
AKC Posted April 12, 2005 Author Posted April 12, 2005 That you're imagining the taste of a skunk's ass doesn't do you a whole lot of credit either. 302734[/snapback] While your preference would of course be ostrich ass.
Alaska Darin Posted April 12, 2005 Posted April 12, 2005 That you're imagining the taste of a skunk's ass doesn't do you a whole lot of credit either. 302734[/snapback] Impressing this group has always been high on my list of things to accomplish before my dirt nap. </sarcasm>
chicot Posted April 12, 2005 Posted April 12, 2005 While you were deep in your your cave: The Iraqi's held a vote. Required reading for any species hibernating during the winter of '04/'05 And let me be the first to welcome you back the real world, as it appears I must be. 302659[/snapback] Huh? And that's it. End of debate. Point proved. The fact that the Iraqis held an election justifys everything? Problem is that that has nothing whatsoever to do with his point that the pre-war debate was based on faulty information (those fabled WMDs, since you seem to have forgotten). Still, I suppose changing the subject is always a good tactic if you are struggling for a reply.
AKC Posted April 12, 2005 Author Posted April 12, 2005 Huh? And that's it. End of debate. Point proved. 302906[/snapback] As a matter of fact, based upon your statement: "Yes, we had public discussion on the war. It is becoming clear that it was a farce (finally for some), rigged with faulty information." Clearly even liberal icons are calling your conclusions naive. So yes, That's it. End of debate. Point proved. You've fallen somewhere to the left of Daffy Duck and your last gasps of WMDs! WMDs! doesn't even get the LA and NY Times excited any more. Wake up or drown, it's still within your reach to join the majority of Americans in respecting the great things about our awesome United States, including our willingness to defend ourselves. Au Revoir!
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 12, 2005 Posted April 12, 2005 As a matter of fact, based upon your statement: "Yes, we had public discussion on the war. It is becoming clear that it was a farce (finally for some), rigged with faulty information." Clearly even liberal icons are calling your conclusions naive. So yes, That's it. End of debate. Point proved. You've fallen somewhere to the left of Daffy Duck and your last gasps of WMDs! WMDs! doesn't even get the LA and NY Times excited any more. Wake up or drown, it's still within your reach to join the majority of Americans in respecting the great things about our awesome United States, including our willingness to defend ourselves. Au Revoir! 303010[/snapback] Woe, easy there. Give it a little more time for things to play out... Especially, fiscally.
AKC Posted April 13, 2005 Author Posted April 13, 2005 Woe, easy there. Give it a little more time for things to play out... Especially, fiscally. 303014[/snapback] You like to ignore history- while war is a financially expensive short term venture the development of new war technologies makes the long term fiscal prospects bright indeed. Consider who will compete with us for the necessary weapons of the near future- there is no competitor for the new systems being developed for our campaign in the Middle East, therefore we'll be not just the vendor of choice but the sole vendor in almost every category. I did not seek to look at war through the prism of future profit but your inane suggestion invited a clarification of the actuality we expect in the aftermath. While war is hardly an investment, there are historical financial rewards that are exponentially increased when only one major weapons system developer is the primary combatant.
Campy Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 You like to ignore history- while war is a financially expensive short term venture the development of new war technologies makes the long term fiscal prospects bright indeed. 303138[/snapback] Throughout history haven't wars tended to provide a short-term boost to the economy as the military-industrial complex gears up to feed the war machine?
GG Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 Throughout history haven't wars tended to provide a short-term boost to the economy as the military-industrial complex gears up to feed the war machine? 303159[/snapback] Just thinking off the top of the head, and not having any statistical backing, my guess would be, a lot of wars were started following a severe economic downcycles where the the pre-war build up of the military machine led to economic expansion, which led to more war-time spending after war was declared. But in the smoothed economic cycle, wars are not economic boom periods.
AKC Posted April 13, 2005 Author Posted April 13, 2005 Throughout history haven't wars tended to provide a short-term boost to the economy as the military-industrial complex gears up to feed the war machine? 303159[/snapback] Savings Bonds, living on next to nothing, the entertainment buck went nearly exclusively to the family radio you all sat around and listened to at night, saving rubber bands and tin foil and hoping you might just get a chicken for Sunday dinner? I can't believe anyone who lived through WWII would consider the economic situation in the U.S. during the war to be something to throw a party over. Now AFTER WWII things got real cozy as we moved towards our current stature as the #1 arms dealer in the world. Whether that's something to be proud of is up for debate, but considering the alternatives I can at minimum find it acceptable.
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 Savings Bonds, living on next to nothing, the entertainment buck went nearly exclusively to the family radio you all sat around and listened to at night, saving rubber bands and tin foil and hoping you might just get a chicken for Sunday dinner? I can't believe anyone who lived through WWII would consider the economic situation in the U.S. during the war to be something to throw a party over. Now AFTER WWII things got real cozy as we moved towards our current stature as the #1 arms dealer in the world. Whether that's something to be proud of is up for debate, but considering the alternatives I can at minimum find it acceptable. 303228[/snapback] Is Buffalo and WNY truly the exception? Then again Buffalo is not the norm. People tend to look at things where they base their roots. Historically, Buffalo faired pretty well during the war years. Was it the governmental control? What happened during times of peace?
Campy Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 Savings Bonds, living on next to nothing, the entertainment buck went nearly exclusively to the family radio you all sat around and listened to at night, saving rubber bands and tin foil and hoping you might just get a chicken for Sunday dinner? I can't believe anyone who lived through WWII would consider the economic situation in the U.S. during the war to be something to throw a party over. Now AFTER WWII things got real cozy as we moved towards our current stature as the #1 arms dealer in the world. Whether that's something to be proud of is up for debate, but considering the alternatives I can at minimum find it acceptable. 303228[/snapback] I didn't ask if the domestic life of WWII was similar to the Roaring 20's. But the economy did get a boost. In fact, our arms sales received a nice bump as we sent copious amounts of munitions and vessels to England under the Lease-Loan program (we couldn't sell them because of the legislated prohibition on arms exports following WWI). Wars do provide a kick to our economy. Bodies are needed to fight, bodies are needed in the factories to replace those that go to fight and unemployment drops. The implements of war are required to be manufactured in greater quantities, and that proves to be a boon for defense suppliers and ancillary manufacturers like rubber for tread and tires, shells for cannon and rifles, steel for armored vehicles, etc... And BTW, the US had been a major supplier of arms and munitions since the turn of the century, not just since WWII. Hell, we sold to both sides for a good part of WWI.
AKC Posted April 13, 2005 Author Posted April 13, 2005 Is Buffalo and WNY truly the exception? Then again Buffalo is not the norm. People tend to look at things where they base their roots. Historically, Buffalo faired pretty well during the war years. Was it the governmental control? What happened during times of peace? 303237[/snapback] I don't know- unless Buffalo kids would consider staying home tonight and listening to Dr. Demento with their dad and mom "whooping it up", I'm under the impression that there's no comparison between the economic times of today versus WWII; then again I was to dirt farmers in Wellsville. What the hell would I know about good times?
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 Buffalo boomed with war industry. Aviation center? Mass influx of workers to the region. You couldn't hire or fire with out governement approval. Wasn't there a employment "Czar" appointed federally during that time?... Her name escapes me? This "socialist" boom in Buffalo would also cause its demise during peace time? To some extent, the region is still suffering from this federal oversight? ????
GG Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 Buffalo boomed with war industry. Aviation center? Mass influx of workers to the region. You couldn't hire or fire with out governement approval. Wasn't there a employment "Czar" appointed federally during that time?... Her name escapes me? This "socialist" boom in Buffalo would also cause its demise during peace time? To some extent, the region is still suffering from this federal oversight? ???? 303249[/snapback] I see you're finally coming around.
Campy Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 I don't know- unless Buffalo kids would consider staying home tonight and listening to Dr. Demento with their dad and mom "whooping it up", I'm under the impression that there's no comparison between the economic times of today versus WWII; then again I was to dirt farmers in Wellsville. What the hell would I know about good times? 303244[/snapback] Wellsville - so THAT'S whats wrong with you!! Just kidding- I grew up in LeRoy and we used to play Wellsville in B-ball. Truth be told, the biggest difference my mother noted as a youngster were the blackout curtains and a knock on the door from a CD officer if any light was showing out of your house. They had rations of course, but they still went to the theater to see plays, musicals, movies, and the BPO. Her dad served in WWI, so he wasn't going to fight WWII, and life for them was as normal as it could be given that we were fighting a war there was no gaurantee we'd win. But day-to-day for her wasn't painful in the least.
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 I don't know- unless Buffalo kids would consider staying home tonight and listening to Dr. Demento with their dad and mom "whooping it up", I'm under the impression that there's no comparison between the economic times of today versus WWII; then again I was to dirt farmers in Wellsville. What the hell would I know about good times? 303244[/snapback] Good times in relation to jobs were plentiful... Well paying industry. Quite a contrast to today. Ya, today's standards blow things away. 1946 was the first nail in its coffin: During the war Buffalo had become the center of the aircraft industry, the Seattle of its day, with millions of dollars in federal contracts. and thousands of its workers involved in the production of planes, engines, and their component parts. Buffalo prospered as long as the war continued and the government bought its planes. The end of the war signaled disaster. In 1943 there were over 40,000 people working at Curtiss-Wright. By September 1945 the number had been reduced to 5,500 and the ripple was felt throughout the whole economy. By Christmas, 1946 there were over 80,000 people, close to fifteen percent of the area work force, without work. Then, in early 1946, Curtiss-Wright announced that it was closing down almost all of its Buffalo operations. They were moving to Columbus, Ohio. They claimed they had nothing against Buffalo itself. It was simply a matter of space; they didn't need so much of it any more.
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 I see you're finally coming around. 303250[/snapback] I have always been there. It doesn't mean one still can't act collectively when needed?
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 What will today's "quiet patriotism" get you? A pink slip later down the line? There are reasons for being jaded. Not to cry "poor mouth". A lot of private industry spawned off the military industry after the war years. This is a credit to the individual businesses that made it work. 1959 rolls and around and Buffalo gets officially "bypassed." The downward spiral continues. So much more goes into the root causes of one area's demise. Throw the fun stuff out there like unions, lazy workers, etc... Buffalo was conditioned and prospered economically, practiced its patriotism. </end rant/end tangent>
chicot Posted April 13, 2005 Posted April 13, 2005 As a matter of fact, based upon your statement: "Yes, we had public discussion on the war. It is becoming clear that it was a farce (finally for some), rigged with faulty information." Clearly even liberal icons are calling your conclusions naive. So yes, That's it. End of debate. Point proved. You've fallen somewhere to the left of Daffy Duck and your last gasps of WMDs! WMDs! doesn't even get the LA and NY Times excited any more. Wake up or drown, it's still within your reach to join the majority of Americans in respecting the great things about our awesome United States, including our willingness to defend ourselves. Au Revoir! 303010[/snapback] That statement was Exiled's, not mine. I was not aware of where Daffy Duck stood on the Iraq war issue but I'll take your word that his views are as you have stated (Do you know what Bugs Bunny has to say on the issue?). I'm not too bothered about what "liberal icons" are saying about my conclusions, I like to make up my own mind. In any event, whatever the views of these liberal icons of which you speak, it seems that most Americans have moved in the opposite direction. Is it not the case that a majority of Americans now regard the Iraq war as a mistake? BTW I'm not an American. I live in the UK and would describe myself as Anglo-Iraqi (English mother, Iraqi father).
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