Thurman#1 Posted October 18, 2019 Posted October 18, 2019 On 10/5/2019 at 5:45 AM, LeGOATski said: I'm not too concerned about the deep stuff right now, since teams know that's a threat and they're focusing on it. Daboll put more emphasis on the short game this year, as necessary. Once they establish success with short passing and the run game, they should have higher-percentage opportunities in the deep game later. Opportunities haven't been the problem, as that Cover One video shows. Yikes. Hopefully they can improve things.
Pirate Angel Posted October 18, 2019 Posted October 18, 2019 Jets, titans, and ,Patriots all have good safeties which may be a reason 1
Juice_32 Posted October 18, 2019 Posted October 18, 2019 12 hours ago, whorlnut said: Stay with me here... I really believe some of Josh Allen’s deep ball inaccuracy can be blamed on not getting enough arc under the ball. He just doesn’t “drop the ball in the bucket” so to speak. I think his arm is almost TOO strong. He has the ability to fire the ball on a straight line more than just about any other QB in the league, while most qbs have to get more air, or touch, under the ball to throw deep. By throwing on a line, the ball usually arrives in the defender’s face mask assuming our guy has him beat. This is also why he often overthrows. It became clear to me this past Sunday when I saw Darnold drop one in Robby Anderson’s arms from near the end zone. Darnold has to throw that bal with nearly all he had and had perfect arc under the ball to drop it right on Anderson. Allen would have fires a missile with ease and likely have overthrown his guy. Either that or the defender would have made a play due to the lack of touch. I think a lot of this can be corrected. Much has been made about Allen’s quick learning this offseason with short to intermediate throws. I expect this off-season to refine the other area Allen struggles with and you will see a complete qb in 2020. I completely agree. I’ve been saying this since his first preseason game. He’s got to get a little more air under the deep ones.
Brand J Posted October 18, 2019 Posted October 18, 2019 Would Josh be allowed to hire collegiate athletes? If I was him, in the off-season I’d hire about 10 guys with varying speeds (anywhere from 4.3 to 4.6) and have them run go route after go route. He’d work “in the pocket” on movement and launching those passes downfield, accurately hitting his targets. I said before he was misfiring on the long ball in his pro day workout. At the very least he should be hitting those passes against air.
whorlnut Posted October 18, 2019 Posted October 18, 2019 5 hours ago, bills11 said: His ball trajectory issues are part mechanics part mental part feel/chemistry..there have been QBs with stronger arms or fairly equivalent like elway and young favre who knew how to throw the deep ball with touch and arc..it's an ongoing process when favre started in gb in practice he'd throw everything as a bullet pass.. Josh just has to learn to trust and get a consistent feel for his deep ball ..through his first 2 years every deep ball has had wildly different arc and velocity from great touch on the throw to Foster last year vs the jags and a great throw to Foster in the Vikings game that was dropped to not enough air on the ball missing John brown deep Excellent post and I completely agree.
Guest Posted October 18, 2019 Posted October 18, 2019 Second year QB. Things eventually slow down, and that little pause to look before he throws goes away. He makes his decision faster, and has a shorter pass to make with a more open receiver. That's how accuracy goes up. No mechanics, more just confidence to remove a lot of mental bad habits.
Real McClappy Posted October 19, 2019 Posted October 19, 2019 Just turn into this Josh! Please...... 1 2
WideNine Posted October 19, 2019 Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) On 10/18/2019 at 12:44 AM, bills11 said: His ball trajectory issues are part mechanics part mental part feel/chemistry..there have been QBs with stronger arms or fairly equivalent like elway and young favre who knew how to throw the deep ball with touch and arc..it's an ongoing process when favre started in gb in practice he'd throw everything as a bullet pass.. Josh just has to learn to trust and get a consistent feel for his deep ball ..through his first 2 years every deep ball has had wildly different arc and velocity from great touch on the throw to Foster last year vs the jags and a great throw to Foster in the Vikings game that was dropped to not enough air on the ball missing John brown deep Folks that tested Josh prior to the draft came to the same conclusion. His release was over 70 mph, and when tested on intermediate and longer throws that required dropping passes onto spot, the passes he was "feathering" into that area were still traveling on a rope at 50 mph. His arm is literally almost too strong for his own good, but his accuracy was not an issue. It was how hard he threw the ball, it was that lack of throwing to a spot with touch and anticipation because he never had to because he could wait till he visually confirmed a receiver coming open and rifle the ball there. Allen has some amazing abilities, but he has a lot of new muscle memory that he has to develop to play consistently and at a higher level in this league. There are things that the Bills can capitalize on with that arm, and that is that Allen can throw that deep out like no one else in the league as most other QBs just do not have enough velocity to get a pass there without it ending in a INT. Daboll can work a lot more of those deep outs and come back routes and have success. They have to find receivers who can catch hard passes with their hands, and Allen has to get better. You can tell that Allen is thinking about his touch on his shorter routes and they have been better. That lob to Lee Smith would likely have been a bullet bouncing off Smith's hands last year. The longer balls, I don't want him to force it as a lot of teams are keeping safeties deep, but he has had some long shots to Knox that were right on the money. Some is Allen, some have been that this is a young team with young team growing pains, and some have been good defensive plays. Edited October 20, 2019 by WideNine 2
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 20, 2019 Posted October 20, 2019 I'm sure he's hoping to get balls deep on Sunday 1
CDogg20 Posted October 20, 2019 Posted October 20, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 5:24 PM, london_bills said: On every one of those deep balls there's an underneath route open. Is that you Trent? 1
london_bills Posted October 20, 2019 Posted October 20, 2019 7 hours ago, CDogg20 said: Is that you Trent? Yes. I'm back in California now. Remember if josh doesn't connect on the deep ball, he should go underneath.
fergie's ire Posted October 20, 2019 Posted October 20, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 3:44 AM, bills11 said: His ball trajectory issues are part mechanics part mental part feel/chemistry..there have been QBs with stronger arms or fairly equivalent like elway and young favre who knew how to throw the deep ball with touch and arc..it's an ongoing process when favre started in gb in practice he'd throw everything as a bullet pass.. Josh just has to learn to trust and get a consistent feel for his deep ball ..through his first 2 years every deep ball has had wildly different arc and velocity from great touch on the throw to Foster last year vs the jags and a great throw to Foster in the Vikings game that was dropped to not enough air on the ball missing John brown deep Even the long pass to Foster against the Jags was really thrown on the line. It was not the type of deep pass that drops into the arms of a receiver with a defender on his back. Even last year, he did not hit those consistently. But it seemed to me he was even worse at the same type of throw at intermediate distance (receiver...or often tight end...20 yards down field, dropping it over the defender near the sideline). It was striking to me when we played Barkley, who would make that throw, that Josh just didn't seem to have that ability....yet. However, I HAVE seen him make that throw several times this year, both in pre and regular season. But yeah....needs to start practicing that deep throw.
YoloinOhio Posted October 21, 2019 Author Posted October 21, 2019 Week 8 is approaching ... maybe Foster gets unpacked week 8 every year? No one else is working on those
DJB Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 I do think if we established more of a deep threat it would help the underneath routes. Not sure why MacKenzie isn't being sent deep more often. That said difference from this year and last year is our record. We've been winning games so going for the deep ball more often is less likely when you have the lead. Last year we were behind and chasing so going deep would seem to be a play to go for more often
Not at the table Karlos Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) On 10/4/2019 at 4:45 PM, LeGOATski said: I'm not too concerned about the deep stuff right now, since teams know that's a threat and they're focusing on it. Daboll put more emphasis on the short game this year, as necessary. Once they establish success with short passing and the run game, they should have higher-percentage opportunities in the deep game later. Is it really a threat when he’s completed 2 of 31 with only 10 being on target? He may have a big arm but chances are that deep ball isn’t going to be anywhere near the WR. Its not the defense focusing on it its allen can’t throw it where anyone can come down with it. The receivers are getting open but the ball flies 20 yards over their head. He seems to struggle when the receivers are running vertically at full speed. He throws it as hard as he can on a frozen rope and there’s no chance to run under it. When the receivers are running more horizontally he seems to be more accurate. The foster deep ball vs jags and lions last year foster was running across the field and he threw it to a good spot Edited October 21, 2019 by Not at the table Karlos
LeGOATski Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: How is it a threat when he’s completed 2 of 31 with only 10 being on target? He may have a big arm but chances are that deep ball isn’t going to be anywhere near the WR. Its not the defense focusing on it its allen can’t throw it where anyone can come down with it. The receivers are getting open but the ball flies 20 yards over their head. The threat comes from the WRs. The Bills have Brown, Roberts, Foster, and sometimes McKenzie. The defense has to respect their ability to get behind them and separate. Simply taking the shot is what keeps the defense in check. As long as the Bills don't abandon it, they'll be alright. Daboll indicated that he'll keep calling those deep shots regardless, which only makes sense.
bills11 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 20 hours ago, fergie's ire said: Even the long pass to Foster against the Jags was really thrown on the line. It was not the type of deep pass that drops into the arms of a receiver with a defender on his back. Even last year, he did not hit those consistently. But it seemed to me he was even worse at the same type of throw at intermediate distance (receiver...or often tight end...20 yards down field, dropping it over the defender near the sideline). It was striking to me when we played Barkley, who would make that throw, that Josh just didn't seem to have that ability....yet. However, I HAVE seen him make that throw several times this year, both in pre and regular season. But yeah....needs to start practicing that deep throw. Yep and he did it again earlier..there's something very odd about his mechanics..On the deep ball he missed for a wide open TD to Roberts he drops the ball much lower then his usual throwing motion then throws this wobbly bullet with no arc . Daboll needs to have him after practice just practice putting air under the ball with the qb coach over and over till it becomes natural ..he's shown the ability to throw with touch everywhere except deep
K-Apps Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 I know it’s Cian, but man Josh Allen needs to put touch on his deep ball:
Buffalo716 Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, K-Apps said: I know it’s Cian, but man Josh Allen needs to put touch on his deep ball: 21% isn't far off from the league average of 35% when you take into account we don't throw downfield often 1-3 more completions and he's probably over 30% Edited October 23, 2019 by Buffalo716 1
Pokebball Posted October 23, 2019 Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) If you're moving the ball with the running and short passing game, the deep ball needs to be tossed a couple three times a game to keep the defense honest. My expectation is that the offense moves the chains, not so much how they do it. Edited October 23, 2019 by Pokebball
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