More on Delay

[Whiskey Dick]

On the state level the greens were gaining ground but the national Nader event did indeed hurt them.

And KRC - being a former presidential candidate - you should be above name-calling.  Calling dems "dims" probably cost you the election.

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Ralph will be doing one of his rally the people deals next thursday a few doors down from Ani DiFranco's church on Deleware. Punk poet Patti Smith will once more be at his side.

 

 

Bring extra patchouli.

[KRC]

Any gains for the Libertarians in your neck of the woods (I think you said you were from PA) in town, city, or state government? The Libertarians in these parts aren't very visable. Maybe I'm wrong but I seem to recall them missing the ballot in '00 or '04 in NY.

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Membership is continuing to grow on the state level and there is an increase in the number of elected officials on the state level. Counties vary. The county I live in is having trouble, but I am responsible for bringing it back (along with my state duties). Surrounding counties seem pretty active and membership is increasing. The last count I saw was 54 libertarians in office in PA (all levels). I do not have the breakdown handy, regarding state vs local office but I imagine it is on the state website.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I guess there was nothing to gain politically from pulling the plug on his own father. Tom DeLay is a joke of a politician, if not human being.

[Adam]

Kerry did do something about it...he told the American people that he had "a plan" to reverse the demonization of liberals. 

 

Really, Kerry isn't the cause of Democrats' inability to get their message across so much as symptomatic of it.  If the party had any real coherence to its platform, it would have chosen a viable candidate.  That it chose a total lame-ass like Kerry, who somehow managed to lose the election to a startlingly beatable incumbent, is evidence of the Democratic party's - and by extension, liberalism's, as Kerry's nomination was arguably more due to the far left than the party moderates - relatively pronounced lack of direction.

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I agree- Kerry had to satisfy both the moderates, and the agenda of the far left. This caused his messages to be mixed. It wasn't that Kerry was a bad candidate- he was running for a fractured group.

[Whiskey Dick]

I agree- Kerry had to satisfy both the moderates, and the agenda of the far left. This caused his messages to be mixed. It wasn't that Kerry was a bad candidate- he was running for a fractured group.

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Yes, that did play a part but just like Gore before him Kerry was brutalized by a right wing machine that knew no rules.

[beausox]

Liberterianism will always be a marginal ideology. It has theoretical appeal but honest reassessment by its adherents usually results in an equalization process; influx of accolytes offset by loss of those who see the light. It is unworkable because when its fundamental principles are extended it becomes a caricature of itself. Whether it is the right of an individual to abuse himself and prevent society the power to proscribe activity injurious to individuals. I have often believed that Liberterianism is swelled in its ranks by self-interested hedonists- behind every doobie is a Liberterian. In fact, Liberterianism had better be careful not to succeed in legalizing pot because that would be its effective undoing. Virtually 1/2 of the ranks of the anti- Vietnam war movement dissappeared the night of the lottery.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Yes, that did play a part but just like Gore before him Kerry was brutalized by a right wing machine that knew no rules.

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Yeah, tell that to Dan Rather.

 

The election was inherently nasty on both sides of the aisle. Screaming about left wing victimization by right wing smear tactics while ignoring the reverse simply masks the fact that Kerry was a piss-poor candidate, to such a degree that he couldn't beat another piss-poor candidate. And the simple fact that the Democratic Party put on their ticket a candidate who couldn't beat the most politicall vulnerable candidate in 25 years is in itself pretty clear evidence of how undirected and bereft of true leadership the Democratic Party is right now. Again. Still.

[Adam]

Yes, that did play a part but just like Gore before him Kerry was brutalized by a right wing machine that knew no rules.

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I'm not even going to go into which side of the argument is right or wrong, but all I can say is that he's fighting the majority- and there always will be a lot of obstacles. All you have to do is find a candidate who is worthy enough to overcome them.

 

You picked the wrong candidate 2 straight times- if you go w/a conservative democrat froma red state, you have a real good chance of persuading people in red states to see things more your way. It has to be a slow process, and you must be willing to make concessions.

[John Adams]

Liberterianism will always be a marginal ideology. It has theoretical appeal but honest reassessment by its adherents usually results in an equalization process; influx of accolytes offset by loss of those who see the light. It is unworkable because when its fundamental principles are extended it becomes a caricature of itself. Whether it is the right of an individual to abuse himself and prevent society the power to proscribe activity injurious to individuals. I have often believed that Liberterianism is swelled in its ranks by self-interested hedonists- behind every doobie is a Liberterian. In fact, Liberterianism had better be careful not to succeed in legalizing pot because that would be its effective undoing. Virtually 1/2 of the ranks of the anti- Vietnam war movement dissappeared the night of the lottery.

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Nice that you generalize Libertarians like you generalize protestants.

 

First, legalizing pot would be much ado about nothing. People who want pot already have it, and cause little trouble. People who don't want it, don't. It is preferable, from a societal perspective, to alchohol in every way, and yet booze is legal.

 

Second, while elgalizing drugs is something most Libertarians believe in, it is incorrectly perceived as the marquee issue. Most Libertarians think crazy things like restraining government growth is mch more important than legalizing pot.

 

Third, there may be "hedonists" in the Libertarian movement, but most are not. Most are responsible and thoughtful people who believe in freedom from government. I'm a Libertarian. I've never smoked pot. I have a house. Family. Etc. I go to a church. I am civically active. All the Libertarians I know are like me (well, maybe some have smoked but but who even cares about that?).

 

Fourth, it's hard to call the third largest party in the US "marginal," especially with the factions forming between the moral Republicans and the small gov't Republicans.

[beausox]

Nice that you generalize Libertarians like you generalize protestants.

 

First, legalizing pot would be much ado about nothing. People who want pot already have it, and cause little trouble. People who don't want it, don't. It is preferable, from a societal perspective, to alchohol in every way, and yet booze is legal.

 

Second, while elgalizing drugs is something most Libertarians believe in, it is incorrectly perceived as the marquee issue. Most Libertarians think crazy things like restraining government growth is mch more important than legalizing pot.

 

Third, there may be "hedonists" in the Libertarian movement, but most are not. Most are responsible and thoughtful people who believe in freedom from government. I'm a Libertarian. I've never smoked pot. I have a house. Family. Etc. I go to a church. I am civically active. All the Libertarians I know are like me (well, maybe some have smoked but but who even cares about that?).

 

Fourth, it's hard to call the third largest party in the US "marginal," especially with the factions forming between the moral Republicans and the small gov't Republicans.

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Factions! yousay, I would imagine that trying to co-ordinate Liberterians would be like herding cats.

[John Adams]

Factions! yousay, I would imagine that trying to co-ordinate Liberterians would be like herding cats.

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Yeah. We think for ourselves.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah. We think for ourselves.

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Well said.

[KRC]

Yeah. We think for ourselves.

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Novel concept.

[bobblehead]

Novel concept.

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That could play well in Peoria.