How is Josh Allen being coached?

[ndirish1978]

If your QB is such a snowflake that he can't handle being yelled at when he plays terribly, you don't have a QB.

[nucci]

14 hours ago, Stallions said:

I didn’t like seeing Daboll ridiculing Josh on the bench after an interception this past Sunday.  Tapping his forehead as if to say “THINK”.   That made many NFL highlight shows.

 

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.  Tyree Jackson from UB studied with him before the ’19 draft.  Has this helped at all and did the Bills recommend this training?

 

It appears Josh is regressing with basic QB skills.  The NFL teams now have  had 2 years to scout his play.  I can see him ending the year with the same numbers as last season.  That’s not good enough.

 

 

Are you afraid he hurt his feelings?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

15 hours ago, Stallions said:

I didn’t like seeing Daboll ridiculing Josh on the bench after an interception this past Sunday.  Tapping his forehead as if to say “THINK”.   That made many NFL highlight shows.

 

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.  Tyree Jackson from UB studied with him before the ’19 draft.  Has this helped at all and did the Bills recommend this training?

 

It appears Josh is regressing with basic QB skills.  The NFL teams now have  had 2 years to scout his play.  I can see him ending the year with the same numbers as last season.  That’s not good enough.

 

 

 

If Daboll is on the sideline, likely Dorsey is up in the coaches booth.

 

As has been stated by many, if this ruins Allen, he was already ruined.  You see much worse every week, Marrone almost getting into a fight with Ramsey 2 weeks ago.  Belichick smashing Surface Pro's and screaming at players including Brady.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

He showed a lot of improvement the first 3 games, more decisive with his reads, very accurate, taking the short throws, etc.  Bu he has to break that habit of trying to make the long throw downfield when he's out scrambling.  He is throwing into coverage and it just doesn't work.  He did more throwaways the first 3 games, but reverted to some bad habits this past Sunday.  Young QBs have their ups and downs and Sunday was a down. 

 

It's EXACTLY that habit he keeps repeating!  Then after he gets stung a couple of times, he starts running recklessly --hero ball.

 

He only played hero ball a few times in the first three games -- and the Bills were able to overcome them.  In the first game, I think an INT on a downfield throw he never should have made was negated by a penalty.  The INT in the Giants game was another bad mistake.  I think he had a near INT against Cinci that might have been dropped or negated by a penalty.

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

If your QB is such a snowflake that he can't handle being yelled at when he plays terribly, you don't have a QB.

 

Allen is the furthest thing from a snowflake, and if you doubt that, you don't know him, his upbringing, nor his path to the Bills.  

[ndirish1978]

30 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Allen is the furthest thing from a snowflake, and if you doubt that, you don't know him, his upbringing, nor his path to the Bills.  

 

I'm responding to the people who are mad at Daboll. Josh loves him and would never complain that he got yelled at.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, ndirish1978 said:

 

I'm responding to the people who are mad at Daboll. Josh loves him and would never complain that he got yelled at.

 

Totally understand.  I didn't mean for my comment to be oriented towards you; more of an emphasis to your point.

[BigPappy]

17 hours ago, Stallions said:

I didn’t like seeing Daboll ridiculing Josh on the bench after an interception this past Sunday.  Tapping his forehead as if to say “THINK”.   That made many NFL highlight shows.

 

Where is Allen’s QB coach Ken Dorsey?  He supposedly helped Cam Newton with the Panthers. 

 

Josh has been working for 2 years in CA with Jordan Palmer’s private Company “QB Summit”.  They stress footwork and include ‘yoga on the beach’!!  Jordan Palmer completed 11 passes in the NFL career and is really a spiritual guru rather than a coach/trainer.  Tyree Jackson from UB studied with him before the ’19 draft.  Has this helped at all and did the Bills recommend this training?

 

It appears Josh is regressing with basic QB skills.  The NFL teams now have  had 2 years to scout his play.  I can see him ending the year with the same numbers as last season.  That’s not good enough.

 

 

It's not like he can walk him to the locker room for a one on one. They are in the middle of a game and Dabol needs his to focus and use his head. Josh is an adult, and a professional QB. I'm pretty sure he can take the criticism from one of his coaches. I could care less what other teams or fans see as far as perception goes. If putting a finger to his forehead and telling him to think is what it takes to get him to progress then they need to do it and the "poor Josh got scolded on the sideline" snowflake attitude it what is causing the game of football to regress into a flag football sport. Don't get me wrong, I am all for safety especially with the head injuries, but some of this add all these rules $h*t needs to stop.

Edited October 2, 2019 by BigPappy

[Formerly Allan in MD]

17 hours ago, Stallions said:

It appears Josh is regressing with basic QB skills.  The NFL teams now have  had 2 years to scout his play.  I can see him ending the year with the same numbers as last season.  That’s not good enough.

He is regressing.  For example, he doesn't even slide anymore on runs, which he finally started doing late last year.  Then there's the lousy footwork and the insistence on making something out of nothing and not throwing the ball away when things break down.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Formerly Allan in MD

[Whitey13]

This post just sounds like someone who has never played a sport before. 

 

If you aren't doing your job on the field/court/ice rink then you are either going to get chewed out or benched. If you can't handle that than maybe you aren't in the right profession. 

[3rdand12]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:26 PM, Stallions said:

Do that stuff in the coaches room.  Now an impression has been made that Josh doesn't think well in a game!  

 he didn't. play straight up with the Kid.

do you have children ?

[3rdand12]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:12 AM, Gray Beard said:

I don’t blame Daboll for being mad and showing it.  He’s helpless on the sidelines, just watching the putrid execution of his plays and boneheaded mistakes. 

 

He could have yelled at the O line for bad play as well.  I hope somebody was. JA was getting pressure much too soon and too often. Of course JA holds onto the ball too long, which is another indication of him not using his head. 

 

People are saying that the game plan was awful, and people are also saying that JA was ignoring the short passes in favor of long passes. Which is it? JA also has opportunities to change the play with audibles. Maybe the execution was the problem, not the plan. 

 

I’m not trying to be so negative on JA, I have faith that he will eventually become very good.  I’m just trying to put Daboll’s anger, frustration, and temper in perspective. 

Bill gave him the beans. it is what he does to young QBs and it worked on Allen. Kid got frustrated not being able to read the defense.
happens to the best of em. let him learn from it and get after it next game against the jedi mind f'n master.

On 10/2/2019 at 11:53 AM, BillnutinHouston said:

Anyone passing judgement on Daboll's methods is doing so without the benefit of any insight into the strength of their overall relationship, and without an understanding of Daboll's assessment of Allen's readiness for hard coaching.

 

In other words, to put it less delicately, your judgement is ill-informed and meaningless.

gentle aren't we when playing armchair psycho analyst

well done !

Edited October 4, 2019 by 3rdand12

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:26 PM, Stallions said:

Do that stuff in the coaches room.  Now an impression has been made that Josh doesn't think well in a game!  

 

Um, anyone who saw the throw knew Josh wasn't thinking well at that point in that game.

 

Tying threads together, go have a look-see at the Athletic article linked in Trout Dog's "too Favre-like" thread.  It has some great insights into what it's like to coach a young gunslinger with a strong arm who believes, correctly perhaps, that he can do stuff other QB can't (but takes it too far sometimes). 

 

I think Marriucci's approach is the more constructive one: "Tell me what you saw there, walk me through it".  Hopefully Daboll and Dorsey are doing this also, but one can't blame a coach for showing frustration when a guy keeps making some of the same mistakes.
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:41 PM, Big C said:

 

I remember before the Jets game they showed a video of Josh giving a hype up speech to the team and YardsPerPass on twitter said he was worried that 17 was a little too amped up. Then we got that awful first half performance. Might have been some truth to that and the same would be true of this last game. Gotta be cool under pressure. 

 

Except that initially in the Jets game, Josh was on point- firing completion after completion.  5 successive completions before he was pressured and threw it away, then pressured the next play and tried to stiff-arm the guy instead of putting both hands on the ball and tucking, so he fumbled.  Not awful in the "can't make anything work" sense, just careless.  Next drive, decent read and pass to Beasley bounces off his thigh for the INT/pick 6, again, not awful - kind of a freak play.  Next drive, again, bunch of completions and successful runs.  2nd fumble was a botched snap.

 

That isn't anything like what I saw starting the Pats game.  In the Jets game 1st half, Josh was successfully making the reads and the throws, just interspersed with some carelessness and some bad luck.  It didn't look like he was playing overhyped or anything.

 

At the start of the Pats game, I felt the Pats D was successfully disguising and confusing what they were doing, and as a result Allen wasn't getting stuff to work at all.  Yes, the dumb throws and mistakes are 100% on Allen but as someone else said, more than one person can be at fault or make mistakes - I felt Daboll didn't call a very good game initially.  He put the offense and Allen in the position of the D knowing whether it was a pass or a run play, then having to react to all the presnap movement on D instead of forcing the D to adjust to them and creating uncertainty for the D.

 

 

[DuckyBoys]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except that initially in the Jets game, Josh was on point- firing completion after completion.  5 successive completions before he was pressured and threw it away, then pressured the next play and tried to stiff-arm the guy instead of putting both hands on the ball and tucking, so he fumbled.  Not awful in the "can't make anything work" sense, just careless.  Next drive, decent read and pass to Beasley bounces off his thigh for the INT/pick 6, again, not awful - kind of a freak play.  Next drive, again, bunch of completions and successful runs.  2nd fumble was a botched snap.

 

That isn't anything like what I saw starting the Pats game.  In the Jets game 1st half, Josh was successfully making the reads and the throws, just interspersed with some carelessness and some bad luck.  It didn't look like he was playing overhyped or anything.

 

At the start of the Pats game, I felt the Pats D was successfully disguising and confusing what they were doing, and as a result Allen wasn't getting stuff to work at all.  Yes, the dumb throws and mistakes are 100% on Allen but as someone else said, more than one person can be at fault or make mistakes - I felt Daboll didn't call a very good game initially.  He put the offense and Allen in the position of the D knowing whether it was a pass or a run play, then having to react to all the presnap movement on D instead of forcing the D to adjust to them and creating uncertainty for the D.

 

 

Jets game was more bad circumstance than anything else.  Against the Patriots they baited him into throws downfield and he was not mature enough to take the easy throws underneath until a deep shot was really there.  Imagine you are 23 years old and a entire city plus their fanbase is desperate to finally beat the Patriots.  He really wants to please the fans and be the man.  Kid was pressing early  and after the initial mistake he wanted it all back in one throw he though he could make.  Its going to get better, right now he just lacks the patience to allow things to go right after things go south

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:57 AM, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

This is how I see it as well.  He got a new haircut for the game and all.  I truly think he overhyped himself and really wanted to deliver a win so badly that he instinctively went back to bad habits and tried to will his way through it instead of letting the game come to him.  You could tell early in the game he appeared nervous and was pressing too hard.  In a way, Belchick and the hype was in his head before the first snap.  He will learn from this (hopefully) and coaching will continue to do their part to help him.  

 

I didn't know about the haircut.  Where did you hear that?

 

One thing that's been clear about Allen is that he's accustomed to having to carry the team.  He carried his JuCo team.  His last year there certainly, he carried his Wyo team after a lot of good players left. 

 

So after the Pats TD off the botched punt, I think he went back to feeling as though the team was on his shoulders and he really started pressing. 

 

The good news is that our D seems good enough this year and our rush game, that he really shouldn't have to.    Hopefully that will start to soak in.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

They mentioned it in the pregame by one of the sideline reporters.  

[stosh64]

Each coach has their own demeanor dealing with players, some hardass and some empathetic.  Neither is right or wrong, it all comes down to results.

Josh is a man playing a mans sport, if he can't handle how his coach talks to him he is in the wrong sport and won't last long. (I know Josh will handle the kick in the ass like a man and be just fine, no safe space required.)

 

My doubts come in to play when it comes to Daboll and his ability to coach Josh up to his potential.  I had high hopes week 1 when he let Josh go no huddle, but then it stopped dead.  IMO Josh plays better in an up tempo attack mode, with a sense of urgency.  We don't see that from Daboll, infact we ALWAYS wait until the play clock is gone.  His play calling as been highly suspect as far as I am concerned.  I would love to see Josh get some freedom at the LOS at times.

I hope I am wrong about Daboll being a detriment to our young QB.

[Jerome007]

22 minutes ago, stosh64 said:

We don't see that from Daboll, infact we ALWAYS wait until the play clock is gone. 

Probably has to do with keeping #12 on the bench and off the field... but the way the Bills D was playing, it might have been giving him too much respect. And Bellichick clearly intimidated them and had them flustered, from Allen to McD. Bills kind of beat themselves, which is both bad and encouraging in a way! One thing is sure: Bill are same level as the Pats*. The latter are just coached better through all the little details, but they are probably the best coaching staff and have been doing it for years of stability. So I wish the whiners would stop already 

 

 

[Peter]

I don't think I have an issue with what happened on the sideline as far as I can tell.

 

In any event, this should not come as much of a surprise considering we all read (or at least some of us read) that Daboll was. bit of a prick in Cleveland:

 

Daboll in Cleveland