Buffalo Boy Posted October 1, 2019 Author Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Yeah they shouldn’t have put any of those guys in the HoF. I’d rather have a single SB victory
Bangarang Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Nathan Peterman can still go on to be great. It's very very very very unlikely, but not out of the question. Sometimes people improve an awful lot unpredictably. My point was more about the comparison and maybe it was a poor analogy to make. Quote And while I think you're a great poster, I think you're off the mark here (not about Peterman but about what BillsBoy is saying). He's not saying that this proves that Allen will make it. He's simply pointing out the fact that many QBs who became terrific stunk it up for a while in the league first. And that Allen might be one of them but it's too early to know. Not all great QBs take the same path on their way to greatness. Some start off great and others improve over time. I think the OP is selling hope and trying to talk people off the ledge. It’s not an easy job to do after a tough loss to the Pats but someone has to do it. Maybe I’m just jaded from all the years of seeing people compare the stats of great QBs to guys like EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor.
Buffalo Boy Posted October 1, 2019 Author Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: Maybe I’m just jaded from all the years of seeing people compare the stats of great QBs to guys like EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor. AMEN
CincyBillsFan Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Yes I see your point. Allen is much more likely to win a Super Bowl than Patrick Mahomes because all those touchdowns only matter to idiots who play video games. Good take. can’t win a super bowl if you don’t get there. That was NOT my point. But Marino went to only one and Mahomes has a way to go before he sniffs Marino's career stats. It takes more then gaudy stats to get to a Super Bowl and win one.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) I am interested in the long haul. Allen is going to be good. He just needs time. He is our QB for the next 3 years at least, probably 4. So all of you better get use to that. I think and hope Allen is here for the next 15 years. Every game is a learning experience. I personally think Allen will be our Rodgers. He will win us a Super Bowl. Edited October 1, 2019 by atlbillsfan1975 2
Thurman#1 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: My point was more about the comparison and maybe it was a poor analogy to make. Not all great QBs take the same path on their way to greatness. Some start off great and others improve over time. I think the OP is selling hope and trying to talk people off the ledge. It’s not an easy job to do after a tough loss to the Pats but someone has to do it. Maybe I’m just jaded from all the years of seeing people compare the stats of great QBs to guys like EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor. Very true that they don't all take the same path to greatness. No argument there. And I really hear you about the people who were all over Manuel and Tyrod Taylor and all the others through those horrible years. It looked to me like he wasn't so much selling hope as saying we need to wait and see. But maybe you're right.
Big Blitz Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 49. Number of INTs thrown in Andy Dalton's first 3 seasons. 1. Number of times Marcus Marriota has thrown for more than 20 TDs in a season. 26. 58. Number of INTs thrown by Jameis Winston in his first 4 seasons. He's at 63 now with 5 on this season. But hey he has some occasional big stat games! 30. As in million per.....Would the thought of having to pay Dak that excite you? 80. Number of sacks Kyler Murray is on pace to take. Along with 16 TDs and 16 INTs. Edited October 1, 2019 by Big Blitz 1
Ol Dirty B Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 This thread reminds me way too much of the stuff that happened with EJ. There were always threads about how he compared to Kelly, Manning, Aikman, or whoever his rookie season. These comparisons are worthless.
Mango Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 It’s not even about being in a different style of play. Sure you can name 5-10 QB’s with shotty rookie year stats, that ended up in the HoF. But for every one of those, there are another 30 JP Losmans, Trent Edwards, Brian Brohms, etc. Sure there is a chance it turns out well. But the odds of a QB being “the guy” after turning the ball over 22 times (18 INT, 13 fumbles, 4 fumbles lost) in 16 games, is low. 1 1
LABILLBACKER Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 Aside from Josh trying to play too much deep hero ball. It was Brian Daboll's responsibility to identify how BB was going to attack Josh. The OP is right, Daboll dropped the ball with his play calling in the 1st half. Everything should've been short to intermediate. He had to know BB was bringing 5-6 all day long. Its hard to believe he even coached with Belichick at all? 1
Mango Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Aside from Josh trying to play too much deep hero ball. It was Brian Daboll's responsibility to identify how BB was going to attack Josh. The OP is right, Daboll dropped the ball with his play calling in the 1st half. Everything should've been short to intermediate. He had to know BB was bringing 5-6 all day long. Its hard to believe he even coached with Belichick at all? I mean, BB also ran single high or cover 0 all day as well. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: This babble doesn’t mean squat either, though. The Bills HC and brass will ultimately decide if Allen is their guy , or they will get someone else. Crusading on a message board won’t do a damn thing in this regard. Fans won’t have any part in the decision really. It’s as pointless as stats of other QBs current or past. Doesn’t have a thing to do with Josh Allen or the Bills. You know the old Godwin's Law? There should be another law for sports forums: "The longer a thread goes on, the more likely some participant in that thread will say that the discussion is pointless because fans don't run teams." Yes. We know we don't run the Bills. Maybe we should just all get back to work. This is wonderful advice. Thank you. 1
Gordio Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 12 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: I can’t say I was completely surprised by Josh Allen’s day yesterday. He looked like a young QB, in over his head, who was often unable to process what he was seeing. When we drafted him we knew he was a project which needed a lot of fundamental development. Yesterday we saw that on full display. I also am not surprised by the level of dismay and panic on this board. Many on here want him to be a finished product before he’s played one full season of NFL games. It got me thinking of some other QBs I’ve watched in the past who had to fight through some rough seasons as they learned on the job. The first one I thought of was Drew Brees. His second season ‘02 : 17 TD 16 Ints. 8-8 His third season. ‘03: 11 TD 15 Ints. 2-9 He balled out the next season but got the knee injury. Rivers was already behind him so he was scooped up by the Saints. Troy Aikman is next. His second season ‘90: 11 TD 18 Ints 7-8 His third season. ‘91: 11 TD 10 Ints 7-5 Then there was Brett Favre His second season ‘92: 18 TD 13 Ints 8-5 His third season. ‘93: 19 TD 24 Ints 9-7 Farve to me is an easy comparison because they both throw stupid passes that drive everyone crazy from poor platforms. Finally, our own Beloved Jimbo First NFL season was ‘86. I’m including the first season because he had balled out crazy talk time in the USFL and I feel like you couldn’t really call him a Rookie with that much “ Pro” experience. His first season ‘86: 22 TD 17 Ints 4-12 His third season ‘88: 15 TD 17 Ints 12-4 I didn’t include the 87 scab season. I get that these aren’t apples to apples comparisons on certain levels. I think the point is still valid though. I believe any of us would take the QBs these guys became with some rough starts.? Josh is still a rough around the edges QB who hasn’t become comfortable with proper mechanics. He also still can’t read defenses quickly. Sometimes he can but not on a regular basis as was explicitly on display in the first half yesterday. I’m not giving him a pass but I do believe Daboll’s first half of the game was called poorly in terms of Josh. He needed to just get the ball out quickly, over and over. I’m ASSUMING that some of those plays were longer developing without an outlet. The line was not giving him the time to stand back there and he clearly couldn’t pull the trigger. Add the blitzing he was facing and he was toast. Part of that was also on the receivers not getting open. Many of us were worried about this receiving Corp going into the season and it looks like it was warranted. Brown, Beasely and Knox are the only ones I like. Andre Roberts should be getting more time. I have to believe he should be able to run a deep route better than Zay with a greater expectation of catching the ball. It’s a long season and we are in good position at the quarter mark. We lost a close game to a perennial SB contender. This hurt but wasn’t a surprise. This team needs more talent in key positions and like the aforementioned QBs who blossomed, Josh needs more time, practice, proper coaching and all important game experience. Now is not the time to even BEGIN to think of pulling the plug. Well done sir. That is really surprising about Kelly's stats in 88. Although, I stated in another thread that this game reminded me of a game in 88 when the Bills were undefeated & went into Chicago & the Bears defense made Kelly look horrible. The defense will carry us to 10 wins this year, Allen just needs to learn from his mistakes & move forward & keep improving.
MrSarcasm Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 I'm curious how much time the Bill's (Fanbase) or any team for that matter would/will give Jalen Hurts or Trevor Lawrence when they are drafted? 12 games? Maybe 16 games? Just thinking. ?
Buffalo Boy Posted October 1, 2019 Author Posted October 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, Gordio said: Well done sir. That is really surprising about Kelly's stats in 88. Although, I stated in another thread that this game reminded me of a game in 88 when the Bills were undefeated & went into Chicago & the Bears defense made Kelly look horrible. The defense will carry us to 10 wins this year, Allen just needs to learn from his mistakes & move forward & keep improving. That was the 4 th or fifth game of the season. I remember that day well. I went hunting with my buddy that morning and was excited to come back and watch the game..... oooof
Gordio Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said: That was the 4 th or fifth game of the season. I remember that day well. I went hunting with my buddy that morning and was excited to come back and watch the game..... oooof Your are correct. That was the game where they had it first and goal & Ronnie Harmon ran back about 30 yards trying to make something out of nothing. They didn't even get a FG out of that drive. 1
Rob's House Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 This is starting to feel like EJ 2.0. Now I really hope Josh makes it. If not I don't think I could take another off-season of sycophantic fanboys in denial clinging desperately to false hope and angrily lashing out at any suggestion their Golden boy may not be the guy. I just can't bear to watch that again.
Buffalo Boy Posted October 1, 2019 Author Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob's House said: This is starting to feel like EJ 2.0. Now I really hope Josh makes it. If not I don't think I could take another off-season of sycophantic fanboys in denial clinging desperately to false hope and angrily lashing out at any suggestion their Golden boy may not be the guy. I just can't bear to watch that again. Against the Pats in the regular season , P.Manning had 43 TDS and 26 picks including four 3 interception games. In the playoffs he was 6TDs to 6 Ints with a four interception game included. I don’t think it’s being a Fanboy to suggest it isn’t surprising that JA was lost playing against the Pats in his 15 NFL game or that we should take it with a grain of salt, 2
Rob's House Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: Against the Pats in the regular season , P.Manning had 43 TDS and 26 picks including four 3 interception games. In the playoffs he was 6TDs to 6 Ints with a four interception game included. I don’t think it’s being a Fanboy to suggest it isn’t surprising that JA was lost playing against the Pats in his 15 NFL game or that we should take it with a grain of salt, I agree with you. I just get a flash of that PTSD feeling when I see the posts trying to equate QB stats from today to those of decades past in an effort to prop up a player. 1
BringBackOrton Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rob's House said: I agree with you. I just get a flash of that PTSD feeling when I see the posts trying to equate QB stats from today to those of decades past in an effort to prop up a player. The correlation between a young QB being compared to Troy Aikman, and a young QB flaming out of the league is approximately 0.99.
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