The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 43 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: Just another case of Cheats being Cheats. The picker moved back toward his own LOS and changed direction to get in his way. But the chickenshit refs had a perfect out. It was a good challenge by McD even though the NFL ratified the Cheats. Just another example showing how the NFL fixed this game so the Cheats would win. The Pats have run this for years, and run it well. The new TE isn’t quite as artful at running it as many other Pats have been. Peyton Manning’s teams also ran these pick plays beautifully for years. The Bills are finally getting there - you’ll see them as the year goes on. Don’t protest; get better at it yourself is the moral of this story. I hate the Pats for clear/outright cheating (the taping scandal, deflate gate, etc) but I gotta admit it: I have a grudging admiration for artful cheating within the rules. 1
Bray Wyatt Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I was okay with the challenge. I thought in real time it was a pick. Had there been any contact I think it would have been overturned... hard for McD to know there wasn't. I had more issue with the first challenge. You can't challenge forward progress so you are left charging the mm of a spot. You never win those. They do. In the actual wording of the rule. this is the only wording of the rule I can find, do you have another or a link?
Matt_In_NH Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I was okay with the challenge. I thought in real time it was a pick. Had there been any contact I think it would have been overturned... hard for McD to know there wasn't. I had more issue with the first challenge. You can't challenge forward progress so you are left charging the mm of a spot. You never win those. They do. In the actual wording of the rule. I dont think there was any chance of that getting overturned, even with minor contact there.
Jobot Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 I would love for both our defenders to just annihilate the two receivers next time this were to happen. That's probably the best way to stop this kinda BS
All_Pro_Bills Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 This is one of those "Gray" areas that this team has a knack for exploiting. They probably have a full-time guy on staff that reads and reviews the rule book assigned the task of finding things they can use and get away with because the rule book doesn't explicitly say you can or cannot do something. In this case faking interference or making the defender think he's going to get interfered with but not physically doing it. While this might seem like bush-league level "cheating" it highlights the extreme measures the Patriots are willing to take to get any edge.
Sandhill Mike Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Peyton Manning’s teams also ran these pick plays beautifully for years. I feel Manning's success with it against New England (in his later Colts years) is the reason the Patriots do it and do it so well now. If Emperor Hoodie sees something that will help his team, he adopts it. He's never seen a competitive advantage that he didn't like. Frankish Reich, you've got the right idea. If it's good enough for them, it's something you need to look at too. Break it down, find out how they use it, get it in your game plan. I think the Pats work with the refs (as allowed) not so much to learn how to play within the rules but to learn where the blind spots are. 1
SoCal Deek Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 Geeez people....It’s DESIGNED as a pick play! The only question is whether it was correctly executed. It was not. The pick WR did a horrible job of making it look like he was running a route. Therefore it should be called as a penalty.
BuffaloRebound Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Geeez people....It’s DESIGNED as a pick play! The only question is whether it was correctly executed. It was not. The pick WR did a horrible job of making it look like he was running a route. Therefore it should be called as a penalty. This. It was so blatantly a pick, I have no idea how it wasn’t flagged in real time. The guy wasn’t even pretending to run a route.
njbuff Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 I was mad in real time when it happened. If I can see wrongdoing with the naked eye, how can these officials not see what was happening? Take 3 points away from NE and the Bills probably win this game.
MJS Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 Seems like a smart play. Half the time you won't get a flag if you make contact, and if you don't make contact you'll probably never get a flag. So I'd do it a bunch and would hope your offensive coordinator is having our WR's do the same thing, from time to time. Most of it comes down to acting. If you can convince the refs that you are just trying to run a route, even if that's not your objective at all, then it's an effective play.
Freddie's Dead Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: The Pats have run this for years, and run it well. The new TE isn’t quite as artful at running it as many other Pats have been. Peyton Manning’s teams also ran these pick plays beautifully for years. The Bills are finally getting there - you’ll see them as the year goes on. Don’t protest; get better at it yourself is the moral of this story. I hate the Pats for clear/outright cheating (the taping scandal, deflate gate, etc) but I gotta admit it: I have a grudging admiration for artful cheating within the rules. Screw your grudging admiration. I'm sick and tired of the ball washing they get for cheating. I've had it and I'm calling it out.
row_33 Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 so do you feel better about a challenge and we get it shown 25 times for an endless review, and they still won't bother enforcing it?
The Frankish Reich Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, MJS said: Seems like a smart play. Half the time you won't get a flag if you make contact, and if you don't make contact you'll probably never get a flag. So I'd do it a bunch and would hope your offensive coordinator is having our WR's do the same thing, from time to time. Most of it comes down to acting. If you can convince the refs that you are just trying to run a route, even if that's not your objective at all, then it's an effective play. Agreed. The NFL likes offense! Barring significant contact and evidence of the play being designed as a pick, it simply isn’t called. Ever. So it’s cheating within the rules, like a good old fashioned take-out slide to break up a double play. I only take the Pats’ (partial) defense here because this is one of those “we’ve let them get into our heads” things that really isn’t anything that doesn’t go on with 31 other teams.
BuffaloRebound Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 It wasn’t a smart play. The Pats player had his eyes on Wallace the whole time and was lining him up like he was gonna block him. Refs blew the call.
MJS Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: Agreed. The NFL likes offense! Barring significant contact and evidence of the play being designed as a pick, it simply isn’t called. Ever. So it’s cheating within the rules, like a good old fashioned take-out slide to break up a double play. I only take the Pats’ (partial) defense here because this is one of those “we’ve let them get into our heads” things that really isn’t anything that doesn’t go on with 31 other teams. Another far more common example is offensive holding. Linemen hold on every single play pretty much. By definition its illegal, but if you keep your hands inside the defender's frame and allow them to disengage then you will not get called for it most of the time. You have to do it to survive in this league. You see the same thing with Seattle's legion of boom. They held a lot simply because they knew the refs wouldn't call it most of the time. Know what you can get away with and keeping doing it until you don't. So if I were Daboll I'd be trying to exploit as many things as I could on offense. It's the ref's job to call it. You don't win any awards for being a choir boy and designing everything to conform to the letter of the law. 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: It wasn’t a smart play. The Pats player had his eyes on Wallace the whole time and was lining him up like he was gonna block him. Refs blew the call. Looking at a player is not against the rules. Where his eyes were is irrelevant. Missed calls happen all the time. Tre White holds pretty regularly and often doesn't get called for it. Good for him. Keep trying to get away with it.
H2o Posted September 30, 2019 Author Posted September 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, njbuff said: I was mad in real time when it happened. If I can see wrongdoing with the naked eye, how can these officials not see what was happening? Take 3 points away from NE and the Bills probably win this game. The ref on the play
BuffaloRebound Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 You think Belichik coached him to blatantly try to pick Wallace like that? They haven’t won all those Super Bowls and Division titles because of ref incompetence. That was a dumb play by the Pats player.
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: They haven’t released the video, but I’m guessing that Kraft’s episode involved soft contact. Very soft. which meant she had to work harder...
peterpan Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, BuffaloBillies said: Here's a zoomed in screenshot. Not only stopped in his tracks, leaned in, and pushed that left leg out, but he's also looking RIGHT at him. *intent is 9/10 of the law Did he really not hit him? The few guys I watched with all thought so. Bills fans but also jets and bears fans all thought the leg made contact
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 It was a moving pick, the guy made no attempt to run a route and just kept moving towards the defender. The Pats get away with it because it puts the defender in a box, do I run over the guy and hope they call it or do I try to run around it? Moving pick, and the league seem to rely on contact being made.
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