Why the Zay Hate?

[TwistofFate]

13 hours ago, John in Jax said:

Recorded the game on DVR....just went back and watched the 4th down "drop" you reference above. Listen, I'm not saying Zay Jones is a great receiver, but to call that a drop is ridiculous. It was way too high, and he had a CB draped all over him.

 

What was really pathetic about that play was the design though. We had 2 WRs stacked on the left side, and both of them appeared to run in the same direction, so they were easily covered. It really gave Barkley no option as to where to go. And the back stayed in to block. Terrible looking play design.

It hit him in the hands....its a drop. 

 

Its not ridiculous to call a drop a drop.   He's an NFL professional reciever.  It's drop after drop after drop with him. 

 

Stop making excuses for his poor ass performance. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

It hit him in the hands....its a drop. 

 

Its not ridiculous to call a drop a drop.   He's an NFL professional reciever.  It's drop after drop after drop with him. 

 

Stop making excuses for his poor ass performance. 

 

It was a similar throw to when Duke came down with it and bulldozed the CB who was draped all over him into the end zone.

[starrymessenger]

He's a #3 or #4 WR it would appear. Doesn't separate well (though he has occasionally been open and missed by Allen), is pretty useless competing for balls in a crowd, doesn't react to break up picks or pursue the DB (low energy Zay) and - this is the killer - has very suspect hands. Sure some of Allen's throws give him little or no chance. On the other hand he dropped a low throw that hit him in the hands on Sunday. A NFL starting calibre WR should make that play.  If this sort of thing were an outlier you would just drive on. The problem is that it's pretty typical for Zay. I have not been on the Duke bandwagon, but I think it's about time for a change.

[wppete]

Is Zay still on this team?!?!?! Time to trade or release him. 

[Gordio]

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

[Irv]

Frankly, I think you are all overreacting.  The kid's gearing up to go down to Nashville and turn the season around.  Quit worrying. 

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

16 hours ago, Gordio said:

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

That could very well be an issue of trust.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

 

There's quite a few times where Zay has his man beat and Josh is nowhere catchable with the pass.  It's really bizarre because he doesn't have this issue with Brown, Beasley or Knox. 

 

Unfortunately for Zay, he can't control the fact Allen is wildly inaccurate when throwing to him in particular.. what he can control is making difficult catches and fighting to break up interceptions, of which he never seems to do.

 

It's just a very odd situation right now.  Zay gets open though.  That's on tape for all to see.

[MikeSpeed]

I have been somewhat defending Zay since the Panthers game in his first year. But I did witness Sunday him not helping his QB on the 2 INT. Granted better throws could have been made, but it looked very much like he didn't know how to switch to become a defender on those plays. It's frustrating that he is in year 3 and doesn't appear to have that little extra, for lack of a better term, "effort" in his game. He just seems like he's on the precipitous of being good, but just can't take that next step. Sadly I think he may never or he may just take too long for us to wait for him.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

There's quite a few times where Zay has his man beat and Josh is nowhere catchable with the pass.  It's really bizarre because he doesn't have this issue with Brown, Beasley or Knox. 

 

Unfortunately for Zay, he can't control the fact Allen is wildly inaccurate when throwing to him in particular.. what he can control is making difficult catches and fighting to break up interceptions, of which he never seems to do.

 

It's just a very odd situation right now.  Zay gets open though.  That's on tape for all to see.

 

Much more grounded than the hes the worst player to ever don and NFL jersey flaming pitchfork crew. 

 

Josh and Zay dont click- reason doesn’t matter. For that reason itself its good to start looking around for an upgrade. 

 

Look at that jets jets game last year with Barkley. That day ZJ was the best wr on the field. 

 

So yeah Beane go get something better at wr#3, 4 or even better than Cole or Smoke.... but it need to be actually better. Not just the next JAG in line. 

5 minutes ago, MikeSpeed said:

I have been somewhat defending Zay since the Panthers game in his first year. But I did witness Sunday him not helping his QB on the 2 INT. Granted better throws could have been made, but it looked very much like he didn't know how to switch to become a defender on those plays. It's frustrating that he is in year 3 and doesn't appear to have that little extra, for lack of a better term, "effort" in his game. He just seems like he's on the precipitous of being good, but just can't take that next step. Sadly I think he may never or he may just take too long for us to wait for him.

This .... thanks for a rational take

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Incomplete pass 

with the "fumble "

Not an INT 

 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

My friend who went to the game said he focused on Zay Jones quite a bit Sunday & said he was open a lot & Allen didn't get it to him.  Not sure how true that is but can't blame the guy if Allen can't get it to him when open.  

Sure they can. 

[toto8]

1st of all that was not an interception. He didn't fully controlled the ball, not even when he landed out of bounds just a little after.

 

The Zay hate is real. look at this below and make a decision after. The guy was open a lot and JA didn't look his way. Also on the interception everyone is mentioning Knox is running a route behind Zay and some think he was the target not Zay.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by toto8

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

He speed is average and his hands are bad.  He runs lazy routes and is rarely open.  Watch him live in the stadium and you see he really sucks away from the ball. He has no compete, he is not smart, and he does not work hard.   He can’t play special teams either.  

 

This is his third season and he still has no football sense.  On the 3rd interception he really needed to play DB and knock the ball down.  In a post game interview he said something like this “I knew I could not catch it, I thought it might be for someone behind me so I let it go”.  

 

We have Foster and Duke Williams, let’s try one of them.  

well i guess that is that then.

 he's and idiot.
all the compliment you paid him ring true. Sorry Zay Jones. you suck cuz you do not play with 110% and that is what success is made from when most everyone else is playing 100% +

no wonder Josh does not trust him.

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, toto8 said:

1st of all that was not an interception. He didn't fully controlled the ball, not even when he landed out of bounds just a little after.

 

The Zay hate is real. look at this below and make a decision after. The guy was open a lot and JA didn't look his way. Also on the interception everyone is mentioning Knox is running a route behind Zay and some think he was the target not Zay.

 

 

thanks for posting. quinn also has a long thread looking at Zay’s targets from all 4 games from just a couple hours ago. Unfortunately most have made up their minds about the guy and just dismiss this analysis and go on claiming he’s the worst player in the history of the Bills and other such nonsense.

[ctk232]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

There's quite a few times where Zay has his man beat and Josh is nowhere catchable with the pass.  It's really bizarre because he doesn't have this issue with Brown, Beasley or Knox. 

 

Unfortunately for Zay, he can't control the fact Allen is wildly inaccurate when throwing to him in particular.. what he can control is making difficult catches and fighting to break up interceptions, of which he never seems to do.

 

It's just a very odd situation right now.  Zay gets open though.  That's on tape for all to see.

^this is expanded on in the Athletic's All-22 article from today, too. Though I think Joe B nailed it in his summary - Zay is a "role player" not an "impact player."

 

Some interesting points to his credit are that he's the best run blocking receiver on the team by far, and he's apparently getting greater separation than Smoke on average (2.7 vs. 2.3). Allen has missed several underneath crossing routes/mesh concepts that could go for 15-20 yard gains, several with Zay running the route with clean separation and daylight ahead. While I agree I don't think Allen has done him any favors, he isn't going to be this massively impactful receiver for us tearing up stat charts. I've always been in the boat that if Zay is evaluated in the context of his draft pick, he won't live up to the hype - but the reason he's on the roster now is his utility in the run game, knowledge of the offense, and improved route running on an overall basis. This is all value added, but not enough for people who only see the targets he gets.

Edited October 2, 2019 by ctk232

[Rob's House]

On 9/30/2019 at 10:01 AM, Rad Likes The Bills said:

Dude stop it. Zay Jones isn’t in the same stratosphere as RWoods.  He just put up 1.2k yards last year. And they are truly night and day different players. Woods makes all tough contested catches over the middle. Runs all the routes. Catches the deep ball. Extremely good downfield blocker(look at all shady’s big runs from 15/16 who was leading the way) He was the perfect #2. 

 

 

 

Somewhat OT, but worth noting: Most of the fan base thought Woods was a JAG when he was here.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:33 AM, Virgil said:

Can someone please tell me what Zay did, or didn’t do, yesterday to call for the hate?  I see people saying cut him immediately.  
 

I can’t remember a play with him where I thought he was the reason we sucked.  The guy isn’t even out there that much.  
 

Overall, he hasn’t lived up to his draft status and physical traits, but I don’t see how yesterday was the deal breaker.  
 

What am I missing?

 

He's a jag and doesn't fight for the ball.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 9/30/2019 at 2:37 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t hate the guy.  He belongs on a nfl roster.  But when you trade up for a guy in the 2nd and pass on JuJu and Cooper Kupp, it looks terrible to see how unproductive Zay is.  He has no elite skills.  He is a dime a dozen NFL receiver who was drafted by us because his college coach was on the Bills. 

 

Pretty much, This.  People hate on Zay because they look at the guys drafted after him and say WTF man?

 

Remember when he was drafted.  McDermott was said to be making the picks off Whaley’s draft board, but he didn’t fully trust Whaley’s talent evaluation.  He had his new WR coach lobbying hard for his guy Zay (a coach who did not work out as an NFL coach and was gone after one season) and he bought it.  He also may have had input behind the scenes from Beane, his GM in waiting.  So we got Zay, who is a legit NFL WR as a #3 guy, but has not produced at the level you expect from a high 2nd round pick which is one of your top men.  But it’s not Zay’s fault the Bills over-drafted him and that they’ve had suckage at WR coach his first two seasons.

 

WR talent is the one place where I still feel Beane and his crew have suspect talent evaluation.  I feel it led to the team under-valuing Robert Woods and not making enough push to keep him, and to abominations such as trading for Kelvin Benjamin, signing a pack of aging never-quite-were’s, and plonking down $3.5M for Corey Coleman.  Beasley and Brown seem to be “all that”, but no question we suffered badly at WR last year and we don’t quite have enough this year.

 

But for God’s sake Daboll quit drawing up plays where Zay Jones goes deep.  Someone else said it, he is not agile, he is not fleet of foot, and he is not able to adjust and contest for the ball when he’s giving every ATP molecule he has in his body just to get upfield.

 

5 hours ago, Rob's House said:

Somewhat OT, but worth noting: Most of the fan base thought Woods was a JAG when he was here.

 

This.

 

And also to the point, the Bills talent e v a l and decision makers thought so too.  I am concerned about our ability to ID and develop WR talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Irv said:

Frankly, I think you are all overreacting.  The kid's gearing up to go down to Nashville and turn the season around.  Quit worrying. 

 

 

 

Dude, I’ve lost count of the times you’ve posted a mash-up with alligators or sticks of butter or what have you on Zay’s hands, but it’s become what I expect from you in a discussion of Zay or even a non-discussion of Zay where you bring it in.  It’s tired.  It no longer has the humor of novelty.  Let it go.

 

 

On 10/1/2019 at 5:47 AM, Chandler#81 said:

10 targets, 2 catches. What is it you see good about him?

 

To be fair, Chand, in the games where I’ve broken it down most of the “targets” attributed to him have been in no way balls any NFL WR could haul in - throw-away balls or tipped or what have you.  I’d be interested in this game if you look throw by throw, how many of those were actually catchable balls?