Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think the Pat's defense caused Allen to lose  his mechanics and throw ducks all over the field. The first two passes of the game he didn't set his feet right and missed easy short completions. His 2nd pick of the game should have been a TD. He badly underthrown a wide open Zay Jones. There was that pass where the broadcast showed John Brown wide open over the middle. I don't mind that Allen threw to Beasley there - he was the first progression and he was in single coverage with a step on his defender. The problem is Allen, again, overthrew the pass. He was off all day long.

 

What happened to checking the ball down? I don't remember Allen doing that once yesterday. The Pats begged him to run backwards every time they crashed the pocket and he obliged every time. There's so much from this game he did wrong.

Granted, he came out hyped up. He did that against the Jets too, and he missed open deep throws.  He definitely lost his mechanics there.  He was also rattled within minutes of the game beginning. Again, the Pats have done that to every QB they have faced.  Heck, they did it in the superbowl too. Against us, they crashed the line so quickly JA couldn't get the ball out quick enough. I don't know if they had the check down covered or if JA just didn't make the right call, but that is what BB does to rookies. He makes them do things wrong. Things that it looks like they have figured out.  Scheme and talent matters, and their D has a ton.  This is not the end all, be all. If you really dived in to what the Pats do, this was the expected result. 

[Speedy Beebe]

All qbs have bad games. But this turnover thing is really getting annoying with Allen.

[K-Apps]

45 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

I never thought he'd succeed.

 

Have seen enough promising signs from him to think I might be wrong, but his decision making is a major problem at this point. He makes mistakes you're taught not to make in high school. His situational awareness as a QB is pretty awful. 

 

Biggest reason why I didn’t like the pick of him and why I was never sold on him. I don’t think those traits can be easily fixed and corrected. You either have that awareness and smarts like Brady or you don’t. The fact that Barkley cold was making quick reads and getting the receivers the ball is a big concern about how Allen’s hold on the offense. Beane and McDermott are going have further improve the O-Line and get a true #1 WR either by trade or draft. I don’t think Allen can carry this offense into the playoffs unless he improves that aspect of his game.

[TallskiWallski83]

I have my doubts about Allen.

-Has incredible arm strength but has yet to connect on a deep ball this season. 

-Poor ball security

-Inconsistent accuracy on the easy throws.

-Does not protect himself 100% of the time as a runner

 

 

However the things that make me believe:

-incredible intangibles: extremely competitive and great leadership. He really can rally the troops

-he can make throws on the field only a few guys in the league can make (Mahomes, Stafford, Rodgers)

-incredible athleticism

-ingenuity when the play breaks down

 

 

Honestly this Patriots game exposed all the flaws Allen has as a QB. It's what Belichick does. The blue print  to beating Josh Allen in 2019 has been made and every team will copy it until he demonstrates he can overcome these weakness's.

 

It's hard to trust that Allen will ever become a true franchise QB. He has yet to really put together a complete 4 quarters of football ( aside from meaningless dolphins game from last year). It's discouraging when you see guys like Mahomes and Minshew just excel right away when they're thrust into action. Right now Allen is more like Mitch Trubisky than he is more like Carson Wentz and that is concerning 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

Wow, after having a terrible game against the greatest defensive mind in football some fans want to move on from Allen.  Absolutely bizzare IMO.

 

*  First, Allen had a bad game.  There are a lot of things he needs to correct when playing against an ELITE NFL defense.  But why would any knowledgeable football fan be surprised by this?  My heart convinced me otherwise but my head kept thinking that Allen was going to have a very bad game against the Pats and he did. 

 

*  Allen DID NOT lose the game.  Had the Bills won it would have been in spite of Allen but did Teddy Bridgewater "win" the game for NO last night?  Sometimes in the NFL your QB has a bad game yet you win 12 - 10 like NO did last night.  None of Allen's 3 INT's put the Pats in immediate scoring position nor did they negate a promising Bills scoring drive.  The blocked punt for a TD was the killer.  How many times a year do you see that in the NFL? 

 

*  IMO Dabold put to much on Allen.  In a way this is a good sign as it meant that in practice and after watching film from the first 3 games the Bills felt Allen could handle it.  That he didn't is disappointing but hardly surprising given the opponent.   If Allen was the bust some are claiming here Dabold & McDermitt WOULD NOT have put the offense on Allens shoulders against the Pats.  You would have seen a much more conservative game plan. 

 

*  I'm not making excuses here but how many NFL teams have a worse set of RB's then the Bills?  Sure Gore had a great game yesterday and has had a HOF career but how much of his 100 yards was a result of the Pats simply not caring about the run?  And did Yeldon even get a carry?  Yes Singleterry has had a promising start to his career but he's missed 2 games & counting.  IMO we fielded a bottom 5 RB dual yesterday.  Watch an NFL game, ANY NFL game and tell me I'm wrong.

 

*  I like Brown & Beasley and they're definitely a step up from last years top WR's. But the Bills still lack a go to stud that can catch those 50/50 balls.  And while a lot of people on here are talking about Allen missing "open" receivers, I kept seeing replays showing how NONE of our WR's were getting separation.  Sure Allen missed some open WR's but that was mostly on long throws down field.  But the fact remains there just weren't many guys getting open underneath.

 

*  Knox is a promising rookie TE and needs to see the field more and be a target more.  Going forward, BOTH Knox & Singleterry must be inserted as mainstays in the offensive game plan.  They are two of our most dangerous skill players who actually have game breaking ability.  Yesterday I saw pass plays that had Smith going 20 yards downfield with NO hope of getting open and I saw empty backfield, 4 receiver spread sets with DeMarco & Gore as two of the spread guys on one side.  Do you want to guess which side of the field the safeties cheated to when they saw that? 

 

*  As others have said Allen gets at least 3 full seasons to prove whether he's the guy or not.  In addition, the Bills need to continue to upgrade the talent around him on offense.  They did a nice job adding players that moved us from being a bottom 3 offense last season to being in the middle of the pack this season.  But if you're going to get a true read on whether Allen is the guy or not then you need to surround him with offense talent that is at least in the top 3rd of the league.  You don't need to get him KC or LA Rams talent but you need to improve the O-line and add play makers.

 

*  If we don't do this then Allen will flame out and the Bills will be on another 20 year odyssey of non-playoff, mediocre football looking for the right QB.  That's why we want Allen to succeed.  If he doesn't we risk another wasted decade. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Allow me to remind Bills fans that in his 6 years as an NFL offensive coordinator for four different teams Brian Daboll has never fielded better than 23rd. in passing yards!

 

2009 Cleveland (5-11) Points for  29, Yards for 32. Passing yards that season 32nd

2010 Cleveland  (5-11). PF 31, YF 29. Passing yards that season 29th

2011 Miami (6-10). PF 20, YF 22. Passing yards that season 23rd

2012 Kansas (2-12) PF 32, YF 24. Passing yards that season 32nd

2018 Buffalo (6-10) PF 30, YF 30. Passing yards that season 31st.

 

2019 Buffalo (3-0) PF 17, YF 8. Passing yards in the first three games 19th

 

The Buffalo Bills just played the NE Patriots with the #1 defense in points allowed, #1 in yards allowed. The Bills scored the very first TD against that defense this season.  The 2018 SB winners with pro bowl, all pro ex Bills CB Stephon Gilmore!

 

So what does Brian Daboll call in that first series against that defense ...Pass, incomplete,  Pass, incomplete, 5 yard penalty (no play), Run, Run, Penalty (center ineligible downfield?) Penalty TE Lee Smith. 1st and 20 at Buffalo 30, Daboll calls for a deep middle pass to John Brown INT! 

 

Line playing poorly, penalties, and with Gore the Bills should should have come out running. Bills Blocked punt for 7 pts... Missed FG. Turnover on downs. Out coached on offense! 

 

Go ahead and list the QBs Daboll has worked with in all those stints as well.. then see if your argument holds water.

 

I'm not big on Daboll, but you cant deny he's never had a real qb to work with.

[One Buffalo]

Way to early to lose faith in Allen, especially after all the good we have seen.  Yeah he stunk yesterday.  But so has every other young QB that plays the Patriots.  When was the last time a young QB looked good against the Patriots?  Allen did come out of halftime looking better and he very well could have pulled out the win if he had stayed in the game.  

 

There is so much to look forward to with Allen in this team.  Chances are he sits next week which means he will return against the Dolphins with a great game to start out with.

 

 

[Mrbojanglezs]

The biggest thing I am worried about is how he has seemed to lose the best part of his game...the long ball... He has to be like 0 for 8 on throws over 30 yards, and all of them have been over thrown.(me guessing on the stats, not verified). 

 

Josh Allen needs to be a big play guy,  if he connects on one of two of those deep plays then you forget more about the 3 picks. 

 

Thats the most concerning part of his game to me right now, did they focus so much on the short game in training camp that they caused him to lose all the touch on the long passes?

Edited September 30, 2019 by Mrbojanglezs

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, K-Apps said:

 

Biggest reason why I didn’t like the pick of him and why I was never sold on him. I don’t think those traits can be easily fixed and corrected. You either have that awareness and smarts like Brady or you don’t. The fact that Barkley cold was making quick reads and getting the receivers the ball is a big concern about how Allen’s hold on the offense. Beane and McDermott are going have further improve the O-Line and get a true #1 WR either by trade or draft. I don’t think Allen can carry this offense into the playoffs unless he improves that aspect of his game.

 

With a week to game plan the Bills can win a couple of games with Barkley but let's not get fooled by what Barkley did yesterday as some sort of indicator of Allen's ability to handle the offense.

 

Barkley is a check down guy which is actually what you want in your back-up.  And when going against a prevent defense like NE played on that last drive, guys like Barkley are going to get completions and look "sharp".  But notice how that all came to an end when the Bills got to the Pat's 40 yard line.

 

And on drives before that Barkley did not throw the ball well.  Twice he missed open receivers with throws into the turf.  And he was lucky not to have lost a fumble and thrown a 2nd INT - in just 3 possessions.

 

I'm more interested in how Allen was able to lead the Bills on a TD drive at the start of the 3rd where he was 6 - 6 for 69 yards. That was a great drive and the first offensive TD the Pats had given up since last years AFC championship game.  That's the drive we need to look at when assessing Allen's ability to handle the offense.  Barkley's quick reads and getting the ball to receivers was the result of throwing against a prevent D on that last drive.

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Mrbojanglezs said:

The biggest thing I am worried about is how he has seemed to lose the best part of his game...the long ball... He has to be like 0 for 8 on throws over 30 yards, and all of them have been over thrown.

 

Josh Allen needs to be a big play buy,  if he connects on one of two of those deep plays then you forget more about the 3 picks. 

 

Thats the most concerning part of his game to me right now, did they focus so much on the short game in training camp that they caused him to lose all the touch on the long passes?

 

I believe it can be fixed because he showed last year that he could hit those throws.  Remember the perfect deep throw that was dropped against the Vikings or the deep throw that was lost in the sun against the Pats.  Or the deep TD passes against Jacksonville, Detroit & Miami.  And he did complete nice long balls against the Jets for the winning TD and against the Giants to Beasley.

 

Yesterday he was slightly under throwing the long balls in contrast to his overthrowing those passes in the first 3 games.   This seems like an artillery guy range finding.  I suspect that at some point he's going to nail the range and start hitting those throws.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

I think he is the quarterback of an exceptionally good football team, but I wouldnt say I ever went over to the side of having faith in him.   Running aside, he is putting up numbers very close to guys like Blake Bortles, Deshone Kizer, and Geno Smith- sense a trend here.  I am not sure Josh is ever going to be a good starter in the NFL.   I think the Bills spent a first round pick on a more athletic Derek Anderson.

 

Everytime he rolls to his right everyone knows whats coming.   I hope I am wrong, but he may be the worst starting quarterback in the league right now.

[MDH]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Hell no.      If he finishes the game we probably win.  

 

All these sky are falling at 3-1 posts are pretty lame 

 

Without one of the best defenses in the league Allen doesn't have the chance to win some of these games at the end. The Jets is a loss and probably the Bengals too. So if the Bills had an average D and the Bills were sitting at 1-3 would people blame Allen for poor ball security that costs the team wins?

 

Allen does seem to have the "clutch gene" but he has got to have better ball security (both running and throwing) or he's not for long in this league. The defense won't always be able to bail him out and give him a shot at the end. 

[K-Apps]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

With a week to game plan the Bills can win a couple of games with Barkley but let's not get fooled by what Barkley did yesterday as some sort of indicator of Allen's ability to handle the offense.

 

Barkley is a check down guy which is actually what you want in your back-up.  And when going against a prevent defense like NE played on that last drive, guys like Barkley are going to get completions and look "sharp".  But notice how that all came to an end when the Bills got to the Pat's 40 yard line.

 

And on drives before that Barkley did not throw the ball well.  Twice he missed open receivers with throws into the turf.  And he was lucky not to have lost a fumble and thrown a 2nd INT - in just 3 possessions.

 

I'm more interested in how Allen was able to lead the Bills on a TD drive at the start of the 3rd where he was 6 - 6 for 69 yards. That was a great drive and the first offensive TD the Pats had given up since last years AFC championship game.  That's the drive we need to look at when assessing Allen's ability to handle the offense.  Barkley's quick reads and getting the ball to receivers was the result of throwing against a prevent D on that last drive.

 

 

 

 

To me, Barkley understood what the Pats were doing and was decisive in his reads. He’s a limited QB, we all know that. Allen was holding the ball too long trying to hit this long pass plays that weren’t there unless he made the perfect throw. Part of Allen’s struggles was the fact the O-Line wasn’t good, but that being that, getting the ball out and hitting the underneath stuff was what the Bills offense. There was a 3rd down play with Brown was wide open for the 1st on a slant I believe and Allen instead overthrew Beasley on a our route. Plays like that are why I’m very skeptical on Allen’s ability on making smart reads quickly. That could improve over time, but setting your feet before you throw not mistake he should be making at this point.

[PJBrown7]

Nope....yes that was a bad game. It happens.  I still felt that we would win it though until he got knocked out. That’s what he brings to the table and we haven’t had that in a long time. Not to mention he’s only started about one season worth of games and is still learning.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Wsam4031 said:

Hes in his second year! lets let him keep developing and not keep judging him like hes a 10 year vet.

 

 

I definitely agree. No reason to give up on Allen or demand change.. He needs to show another year of improvement... He does that by playing the game

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

No but I am losing faith in the OC developing a game plan that helps the young QB develop and the OL that is getting killed

Or is it the young qb fails to pull the trigger on open wrs with protection from his line instead holding on to the ball too long leading to pressure and throwing the ball off his back foot for an easy pick?

 

There were times the WRs didn’t get open and josh had protection. He ran around and took horrible sacks instead of throwing it away or running for a few yards. A couple times taking us out of field goal range. 

 

Josh’s terrible decision making was the problem yesterday. He holds on to the ball way too long. There are a lot of plays where if he threw the ball as soon as he hit the top of his drop he had receivers that were open. But he waited and coverage caught up.

 

Happens a lot with Allen. Balls should be delivered already, he second guesses the throw and it’s too late. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Not at the table Karlos

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, K-Apps said:

 

To me, Barkley understood what the Pats were doing and was decisive in his reads. He’s a limited QB, we all know that. Allen was holding the ball too long trying to hit this long pass plays that weren’t there unless he made the perfect throw. Part of Allen’s struggles was the fact the O-Line wasn’t good, but that being that, getting the ball out and hitting the underneath stuff was what the Bills offense. There was a 3rd down play with Brown was wide open for the 1st on a slant I believe and Allen instead overthrew Beasley on a our route. Plays like that are why I’m very skeptical on Allen’s ability on making smart reads quickly. That could improve over time, but setting your feet before you throw not mistake he should be making at this point.

 

Your right that Allen missed the easier throw for the 1st down on that play and he needs to learn from that.  But I just didn't see the Pats giving Allen the things they were willing to concede to Barkley in the prevent.

 

We're probably all over thinking this.  The Pats have one of the top 3 if not the top pass defense in the NFL.  EVERY player in their secondary is a stud.  On top of that it's likely that Belichick is taking a direct hand in formulating the Pats defensive game plan and making the game day defensive play calls.  We can hate Belichick all we want but he is the best defensive mind in the history of the NFL.

 

Against this we have an offense with a very young and inexperienced QB; a mixed bag on the O-line and at the skill positions and a solid but not great offensive coordinator.  The Pats simply confused Allen and the O and the result was a bad offensive performance.  It's nothing more then that.

 

 

 

[iinii]

4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Nope. If the hero ball is going on in week 15 I’ll be concerned for next season. 

You may as well get ready, that is part of his game and may never change.

Edited September 30, 2019 by iinii

[JAMIEBUF12]

Def not losing faith.I feel Josh and the team are still jelling and learning what works and what does not work.Obviously the coaches will show Josh that defenses are going to try to force you to roll right and bait you into a mistake.Knowing that like last year not being good at the short game Josh will grow or turn that part of his game into a strength...

on a side note I know Sam Darnold only played one game , but how is Baker Mayfield,Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson all doing in their second year??? I’d say Josh is right on par with the rest of the year two quarterbacks.GO BILLS!

[Freak-O]

He's the comeback king. The Pats saved their win when they knocked him out. Being down one TD with a couple of minutes left is what Allen does best. It's almost like he doesn't know how to win unless he's behind. Like a fighter who doesn't get going until he gets punched in the face.

 

I like Allen a lot!