Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[K-9]

Not losing faith at all. Weird question. QBing is often about how you respond to adversity and his second half was a big improvement over his first. It’s a shame a cheap shot didn’t allow him the opportunity to continue his fourth quarter trends of this season. It would have been nice to see if Allen could have completely negated his bad first half. 

 

And Bill Belichick has made far better QBs than Allen look bad for decades now so I have to consider that as well. It’s interesting that fans have to make it more about Allen sucking  than BB’s defensive wizardry. That Pats*** defense is incredible and there’s no shame in struggling against it because every team has their last five games going back to the SB. And I’m not convinced Daboll put our offense in the best position to succeed, either. But that’s another thread topic entirely.

[Buddy Hix]

I really have no idea what to think of Allen in terms of his ability to become a franchise QB. I was encouraged after his last six games last season but this year has been a mixed bag for sure. I've heard that accuracy can't be taught, whereas, ball security can be taught...yet Allen has improved his accuracy while treating the football like a hot potato. 

[DuckyBoys]

He was not ready on Sunday mentally.  Pressed from the get go and it showed in the terrible decisions he made  Its not easy to watch but he was a raw prospect and I think his ceiling is worth at least investing two seasons of starts.  We would have won with mediocre mistake free qb play yesterday. It is what it is.  Coaching staff has a tough job. 

[Aussie Joe]

Haven’t given up on Allen by any means, but I have concerns about some decision made yesterday and in other games this year..

 

He looked a bit mentally overwhelmed in that first half yesterday..

[Ramza86]

I was worked up yesterday because you can just see how panicked he played. 

 

He was 100% rattled and just took any one on one he saw. 

 

Credit to Billy B again....I dont remember seeing any WRs getting separation. Josh was looking around for targets a lot. 

[Jobot]

In the heat of the moment, during the game, I was livid at Josh Allen and wanted him to be benched.  The OP is absolutely correct in that his play at qb was putrid today, specifically in the 1st half.

 

Today, I see this game as another calibration of Allen's development.  I think he still needs to learn that he doesn't need to be a hero on EVERY SINGLE PLAY.  3 wins in a row where he was able to skate through some stretches of poor play clearly gave him some inflated understanding it means playing against NFL caliber players.

[BuffaloFan68]

I am losing faith with the fans for being so hard on Josh.  Josh reminds me a lot of Jim Kelly, throw 3 picks on the first half & then light it up in the 2nd half.  Go back & watch Jimbo’s first 2 years & keep in mind that the defenses weren’t anywhere near to the level of what Josh faced yesterday. Zay Jones & some of the other players didn’t help much either yesterday.  1/11th & defenders rushing unaccounted for wasn’t Josh’s fault either = team effort.  We’re still growing & will be fine, keep the faith.

Let’s Go Buffalo!!!!! We got this. 

[hemma]

Rams lost at home to Tampa.  Pretty sure they'll cut Mr. 3 Interception Goff. 

If Beane was worth a hill of his name, he'd cut Allen and pick up Goff.

 

Or maybe people could just take a little nap, then pet their dog & have some hot chocolate with marshmallows.

[SoTier]

20 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

Now look what happened in the 2nd half, Allen went 6-6 while scoring a TD on a defense that hadn't allowed an offensive TD this season previously!

 

If Allen doesn't get injured my take is he takes the team to a comeback win! 

 

It truly is embarrassing how quickly some Bills fans jump off the bandwagon and complain endlessly about a young QB with not even a full season under his belt.

 

The Bills offense just went against the very best defense in the NFL, the SB champs who beat the Chiefs in last years AFC Champ game. 

 

You look at what Allen did in the 2nd half after the TD drive before he was injured: 5 attempts, 2 completions, 1 INT in 3 possessions, 2 of which were 3 and outs.

 

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have not lost faith in the kid.  He got a lesson yesterday from the best HC and best DC that has ever coached in the NFL.  That said, while I anticipate young QBs will make mistakes, I think it is a legitimate criticism of Allen that he has to stop making the same mistake over and over.  He cannot keep throwing late downfield into coverage, hoping to make a big paly happen.  The first pick he has to see the safety, the other two you just cannot make those throws into the into of coverage the Pats had. 

 

The first 4 games, you can see how much potential the kid has.  You don't lead your team from behind in three games like he did to win (and may have yesterday if he hadn't gotten hurt) and not have what it takes.  But he has to play smarter.

 

A lesson are only successful if the student learns from it, and Allen doesn't seem to do that.   He didn't play any "smarter" yesterday than he did last season before he got hurt. 

 

18 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Allen was bad yesterday.  I haven't rewatched any of the game, but just from the broadcast it seemed pretty clear that he was having a hard time understanding the defense and was holding onto the ball too long as a result.  That doesn't concern me in the slightest -- this sort of thing happens when a young QB goes up against a Belichick defense.  He'll improve with experience in this area.

 

I am getting concerned about two things though.  The first is that he keeps making the same ugly interceptions over and over by rolling to his right and throwing back across his body.  He knows that he shouldn't do this because he says so after games, but he keeps doing it anyway.  I don't pretend to know whether this is a maturity issue, a coaching issue, or what, but it's undeniably a problem.  The second cause for concern is the way he mopes on the sideline after making a mistake and the way he seems to be rattled when he comes back onto the field.  Again, maybe it's just the immaturity of a young player, but they guy needs to grow some thicker skin.

 

These are things that I've observed over the first four games of the season.  No reason to overreact to one bad game against New England, but the decision-making needs to improve.

 

After the second or third INT in the first half, there was a shot on TV of Daboll yelling at Allen and pointing to his head with a gesture that surely said "THINK!!!!".

 

16 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

When we drafted Allen he was considered a raw but super talented player who needed time to mature and grow as a player. No one considered him a finished product. 

 

He’s on the exact trajectory I expected and hoped for. He has a long way to go but I’m enjoying he hell out of the ride. 

 

 

 

So, name all the "project QBs" -- "raw but super talented" -- drafted in the first round since 2001 who have gone on to become great NFL QBs.  I can't think of even one.  All the "project QBs" who have developed into good/great NFL QBs were either drafted outside the first round (Jacoby Brissett, Dak Prescott) or were UDFAs (Tony Romo). 

 

Here are the first round QBs since 2001 so you don't miss some first round "project QB" who actually developed into a good/great QB.

2001 - Michael Vick

2002 - David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey

2003 - Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman

2004 - Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Lossman

2005 - Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers

2006 - Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler

2007 - JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn

2008 - Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco

2009 - Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman

2010 - Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow

2011 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder

2012 - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

2013 - EJ Manuel

2014 - Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater

2015 - Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota

2016 - Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch

2017 - Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson

2018 - Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson

 

[aristocrat]

Brady looked as bad as Josh yesterday.  The td drive showed me the flash of greatness that Josh can pull off so we need more of that. Josh is making throws that I was told before the draft that he would never be able to make.  He's growing and learning and for at least some time he can be a guy that can get us wins but obviously he has got to stop the int's.  The frustrating part is that it seems the int's are all the same throw on the same side of the field right?

[wiseman3]

If you lose faith after 1 bad game, then you probably didn't have faith to begin with. Josh had improved in almost every way before this game. Its the NFL, bad games happen. Do you think Patriots fans have lost faith in Brady after his awful performance? Nope. And to say he was the sole reason we lost is dumb. We just forgetting about the blocked punt? We win the game if that doesn't happen

[SectionC3]

Not in the least.  We lost the game because he was atrocious in the first half.  And we couldn’t come back to win it because he got hurt.  

 

 

 

 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

Oh jeez.  Really?  I'm not going to bother reading through all the other replies.  OP, stop being ridiculous.  He's a very, very raw QB and he's 3-1 for Pete's sake.  What the F do you want?  4-0 and 100 points a game?  He got eaten alive by BB and that crazy Pats D.  Totally expected.  His receivers were not getting any separation not even Brown.  What the F do you expect to happen?  Look what BB did to McVay's high-flying Rams offense in the SB. 

 

And you're ready to give up on him?  If you've lost faith than you are.  Unbelievable.  I suggest you take a step back and get some freaking perspective right now.  Everyone's expectations for him and the offense are way to high this season.  It's all hinging on Allen and his progress.  Well you know what?  He has a long way to go.  Being 3-1 right now is proof of some major progress.  He got walloped today against the greatest defensive mind in the history of the game.  Why is that a surprise? 

 

JA is going to need a few seasons before he really has the experience to start making judgments like this.  It's just unbelievable what some of your expectations are.  Do you have any idea how little experience he has coming into the pros compared the Mayfield, Darnold, and those guys who went to big schools in big conferences?  It's night and day.   He's a big project and that will take some time.  At least we finally have this to look forward to after 2+ decades of total crap QB's.  Sit back and enjoy the ride. 

 

You know what?  All you whiners ready to jump ship this early on go ahead and keep doing what you're doing.  What we say isn't going to change it anyway.  I'm gonna enjoy the experience because if he does develop over the next few seasons, he's going to be something really, really special.  But you go ahead and give up on him now.  Whatever floats your boat.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Distorted One

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Maybe I’ve lost faith in his helmet 

 

no no I wanted to see him back in the game. I belive he could have won it. 

[ghostwriter]

I predicted that he’d be a superstar, but after yesterday I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried.

[Trogdor]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloFan68 said:

I am losing faith with the fans for being so hard on Josh.  Josh reminds me a lot of Jim Kelly, throw 3 picks on the first half & then light it up in the 2nd half.  Go back & watch Jimbo’s first 2 years & keep in mind that the defenses weren’t anywhere near to the level of what Josh faced yesterday. Zay Jones & some of the other players didn’t help much either yesterday.  1/11th & defenders rushing unaccounted for wasn’t Josh’s fault either = team effort.  We’re still growing & will be fine, keep the faith.

Let’s Go Buffalo!!!!! We got this. 

A big difference is that he never looks good against quality opponents. He was just as bad with consistency for 3/4 of the Jets game until Mosely got hurt. The end of last year to the start of this year was a cupcake schedule, and I'm still waiting for that win over a good team. Missing blitzers presnap is his fault, a missed block isn't, but he is bad presnap. They need to find a way to help him in that area. They have to keep a TE in to help Ford if they put him at RT or do something to help. 

[jrober38]

I never thought he'd succeed.

 

Have seen enough promising signs from him to think I might be wrong, but his decision making is a major problem at this point. He makes mistakes you're taught not to make in high school. His situational awareness as a QB is pretty awful. 

[Juice_32]

9 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You look at what Allen did in the 2nd half after the TD drive before he was injured: 5 attempts, 2 completions, 1 INT in 3 possessions, 2 of which were 3 and outs.

 

 

A lesson are only successful if the student learns from it, and Allen doesn't seem to do that.   He didn't play any "smarter" yesterday than he did last season before he got hurt. 

 

 

After the second or third INT in the first half, there was a shot on TV of Daboll yelling at Allen and pointing to his head with a gesture that surely said "THINK!!!!".

 

 

So, name all the "project QBs" -- "raw but super talented" -- drafted in the first round since 2001 who have gone on to become great NFL QBs.  I can't think of even one.  All the "project QBs" who have developed into good/great NFL QBs were either drafted outside the first round (Jacoby Brissett, Dak Prescott) or were UDFAs (Tony Romo). 

 

Here are the first round QBs since 2001 so you don't miss some first round "project QB" who actually developed into a good/great QB.

2001 - Michael Vick

2002 - David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey

2003 - Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman

2004 - Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Lossman

2005 - Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers

2006 - Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler

2007 - JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn

2008 - Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco

2009 - Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman

2010 - Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow

2011 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder

2012 - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden

2013 - EJ Manuel

2014 - Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater

2015 - Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota

2016 - Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch

2017 - Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson

2018 - Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson

 

 

Project is your word, not mine. Project QB's are taken in the late rounds. Raw but talented? How about Mahomes? Show me the scouting report that called him a finished product...I'll wait.

[dje85]

Hard to put this game just on Allen. Yes he made some putrid decisions and many times tried to do too much but it should be a learning process. 

 

But the wrs didn't get much if any seperation most of the game. The line didn't block and the untimely holding calls most the game didn't help either. Hard to get a rhythm when penaltes push you back a ton (more early in the game with Lee Smith). 

 

Give him another true number one wr put Lee Smith on the bench, and let the line gel by having a true rt not this rotation monstrosity. If he still doesn't start improving after that then yup I'll be worried.

 

I am ready to move on from Lee Smith the guy was just bad. And Boroquez is on a short leash with me. Not due to the blocked punt that was on the line not blocking the gunner. But the terrible 20 yard punt I believe was the next drive? You have one job man. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dje85

[Pirate Angel]

He just needs to take a sack, throw, it away, or throw it in the dirt instead of gambling and throwing picks. Also Everytime we pass he is in shotgun formation, now that does help a young QB see the field but it also telegraphs that your passing. 

         Recall all the reverse and flips to TEs and Wrs that were effective against Cinci...runs out of the shotgun against a team that was in pass defense.

       Now belicheck with much better safety's bring players closer to the line and retreat into pass protection which allows for more speed closer to the line nullyfying those types of plays. The first pick Josh locked on to John brown assuming he had him 1 on 1 and didn't see the safety playing deep.