Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

On 9/30/2019 at 7:03 AM, Frez said:

No, the young man is going to go through some growing pains. Give him more time and let him develop.

That's the point, he's regressing.  Doesn't slide anymore on runs, doesn't plant his feet when he throws, and refuses to throw the ball away on broken plays.  All these things he's been coached up on time and again.

[2003Contenders]

Give me a break with all of this "regression" nonsense.

 

Love him or hate him, Bill B. has made a career out of making QBs -- young ones and veterans alike -- look foolish. The biggest problem by large is that Josh kept trying to play "hero ball". You can be sure that the Pats schemed to bate him into situations like those. Obviously, they were not too worried about Gore and the passing game, because the ageless Gore probably could have rushed for 150 or more if they kept feeding him the ball. Instead, the plan was to make the young QB very uncomfortable -- and they succeeded in a large way.

 

Josh needs to learn that sometimes, especially with the defense he has to back him up, a punt isn't the worst thing in the world. Dabol could also help with plays designed to get the ball out of his hand quicker. They seemed to figure this out a bit in the 2nd half.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

Give me a break with all of this "regression" nonsense.

 

Love him or hate him, Bill B. has made a career out of making QBs -- young ones and veterans alike -- look foolish. The biggest problem by large is that Josh kept trying to play "hero ball". You can be sure that the Pats schemed to bate him into situations like those. Obviously, they were not too worried about Gore and the passing game, because the ageless Gore probably could have rushed for 150 or more if they kept feeding him the ball. Instead, the plan was to make the young QB very uncomfortable -- and they succeeded in a large way.

 

Josh needs to learn that sometimes, especially with the defense he has to back him up, a punt isn't the worst thing in the world. Dabol could also help with plays designed to get the ball out of his hand quicker. They seemed to figure this out a bit in the 2nd half.

 

The problem is, this is not a reaction based on one game.  In 3 out of the 4 games this season he’s had some pretty bad moments.  It’s not like he’s been lights out all season and then he has a bad game against NE.  There has been several moments over the past 4 weeks that might be red flags

[BananaB]

Bills fans are hilarious. We’re 3-1, he’s doing enough to win games. Our only loss came to the best team in the league. He’s gonna have good games and bad games, good plays  and bad ones, but if we’re winning games who ***** cares?  

[RaoulDuke79]

Just now, BananaB said:

Bills fans are hilarious. We’re 3-1, he’s doing enough to win games. Our only loss came to the best team in the league. He’s gonna have good games and bad games, good plays  and bad ones, but if we’re winning games who ***** cares?  

But, but, but.........he's not Pat Mahomes. 

[BringBackOrton]

13 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The early thought on Wilson by many commentators and fans outside of Seattle was that he was a good passer on a team with a great running game and a great defense.  It wasn't until after the Seahawks Super Bowl teams were dismantled and Wilson was essentially their entire offense that a lot of so-called "experts" conceded he was a great passer.

 

I have been a Wilson fan since I saw him play his first game at Wisconsin, and I have followed his career ever since.  Needless to say, I was pretty PO that the Bills passed on him to trade up to take the useless WR TJ Graham.

Wilson’s rookie game vs Atlanta is what cemented him as a great passer. He was electric in that game, and it was easy to see.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said:

The problem is, this is not a reaction based on one game.  In 3 out of the 4 games this season he’s had some pretty bad moments.  It’s not like he’s been lights out all season and then he has a bad game against NE.  There has been several moments over the past 4 weeks that might be red flags

And there’s been green flags.  Why do you insist on accentuating the negative?

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

The problem is, this is not a reaction based on one game.  In 3 out of the 4 games this season he’s had some pretty bad moments.  It’s not like he’s been lights out all season and then he has a bad game against NE.  There has been several moments over the past 4 weeks that might be red flags

So you expected him to be "lights out" and because he hasn't been you're upset and pouty.

[Da webster guy]

He can and will curb the hero ball, but he might not have enough accuracy to hit the long throws.   

He's missed literally every deep pass this year so far, some with wide open dudes.  That might come with time, but it worries me more than anything else.    

He's so talented with elusiveness, pocket presence, character, competitiveness etc.  But the last box to check is reasonable accuracy, lets hope he can get his feet set and his throws on the mark more and more as the season rolls on.

[Luka]

Playing against who many considered the best defense in the NFL, scored the only touchdown against New England this year and looked to be driving for the win late in the 4th until he was taken out with a cheap shot. Dabol did him a disservice by not running the football more. Gore was running very well and they should've fed the Pats a lot of two and three tight end sets. With Knox and Sweeney, we could have easily set up some very nice play action seam routes. Dabol's play calling is absolutely terrible at times. That is holding Allen back more than anything at this point.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

9 minutes ago, Luka said:

Playing against who many considered the best defense in the NFL, scored the only touchdown against New England this year and looked to be driving for the win late in the 4th until he was taken out with a cheap shot. Dabol did him a disservice by not running the football more. Gore was running very well and they should've fed the Pats a lot of two and three tight end sets. With Knox and Sweeney, we could have easily set up some very nice play action seam routes. Dabol's play calling is absolutely terrible at times. That is holding Allen back more than anything at this point.

 

Dabol got us 400 yards of offense against the best defense in the league.  On top of that, even a cursory review of the film reveals there were people running open all over the field.  Dabol did his job.  Allen needed to execute. He didn't, and that is ok because he should learn. But Dabol is not the problem. 

[SJDK]

On 9/30/2019 at 3:59 AM, WideRightRevenge said:

Let me be clear .. he played bad yesterday .. that said .. lost faith .. ABSOLUTELY NOT

 

There are way too many positives than negatives with Josh.

 

He has one glaring mental weakness ... he can't throw the ball away .. he tries to extend plays too far, takes hits he shouldn't  and then heaves a jump ball in play.

 

Though I'm not a fan of the new back footed throwing technique he showed yesterday repeatedly  .. last year (after mid year) he hung in the pocket more ... not seeing that this year.

 

That said ... net of a blocked punt (not Josh's fault) and to play as bad as he did and be that close .. the team is vastly improved and Josh is a part of that.

 

3-1 ... equates to 12-4 if same performance

 

 

Agree 100% we are going to win a lot more than we lose with Josh. That matters most. I have full confidence he will learn from these mistakes, I also have full confidence he will make more. The other thing I have full confidence in is that we are a very good TEAM with him and would not be without him. 
He is our franchise QB we have been waiting for. All the haters are going to eat crow when it’s all said and done.

[SJDK]

21 minutes ago, Luka said:

Playing against who many considered the best defense in the NFL, scored the only touchdown against New England this year and looked to be driving for the win late in the 4th until he was taken out with a cheap shot. Dabol did him a disservice by not running the football more. Gore was running very well and they should've fed the Pats a lot of two and three tight end sets. With Knox and Sweeney, we could have easily set up some very nice play action seam routes. Dabol's play calling is absolutely terrible at times. That is holding Allen back more than anything at this point.

This is key, most of us fans would agree. Though most of our loss goes on Allen, the offensive strategy could have been tweaked by Dabol. Definitely should have run more. Live and learn for a fledgling offense.

[Luka]

11 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Dabol got us 400 yards of offense against the best defense in the league.  On top of that, even a cursory review of the film reveals there were people running open all over the field.  Dabol did his job.  Allen needed to execute. He didn't, and that is ok because he should learn. But Dabol is not the problem. 

 

I disagree. Yards aren't what we're looking for, we're looking for points. Allen was blitzed on 50% of his drop backs, that defense could've been easily exploited for more rushing yards. Dabol made almost no adjustments.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

I disagree. Yards aren't what we're looking for, we're looking for points. Allen was blitzed on 50% of his drop backs, that defense could've been easily exploited for more rushing yards. Dabol made almost no adjustments.

 

You have to get yards to get points.  You are also missing that guys were open, even before the blitz arrived. 

 

Dabol made adjustments, i.e. throwing the ball to Yeldon.  And it worked. 

 

We had drives stall, but the problem wasn't play call.  

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

I disagree. Yards aren't what we're looking for, we're looking for points. Allen was blitzed on 50% of his drop backs, that defense could've been easily exploited for more rushing yards. Dabol made almost no adjustments.

Or Allen could have taken the “ blitz beaters “ that Daboll’s scheme made available to him. He didn’t. As an aside, it wasn’t 50% blitz rate btw. It was in the 40s. But even with your exaggeration aside, Dabolls use of Yeldon in the second half was an adjustment that was made. The Pats weren’t going to sit idly by while the Bills ran the ball for an entire half. Many plays were left on the field by the Bills offense. Yards mean they were moving the ball effectively. Their mistakes kept the points off the board. 

[BigDingus]

All I've been doing since the moment he was drafted is try to find evidence that everyone was wrong about him & he's not the QB I saw in college.

I've hoped & prayed our coaching staff could pull off a miracle & turn him into a player worthy of passing on Patrick Mahomes & Deshaun Watson in order to stock up on picks for the following year, but he doesn't ever seem to learn from his mistakes.

He still has yet to put together one great game, still has yet to play 4 straight quarters of good football this season, is one of the worst deep ball passers in the league (which was the one thing he was supposed to be good at), and hasn't played well against any good team he's faced. 

Last season when we were coming off the Bye, I posted a thread pointing out that we were about to go on a stretch against the weakest strength of schedule out of anyone in the entire league, so don't get too excited when we inevitably beat some of those teams. We went 3-3...people acted like barely beating the 3-8 Jaguars (by 3 points), 5-9 Lions (by 1 point) and blowing out the 7-8 Dolphins meant he's arrived! 

In that stretch we also lost to the 3-9 Jets at home (though we had just blown them out 3 weeks earlier on the road with Barkley), the 5-6 Dolphins and of course the Patriots (forgiven on that). 

Fast forward to 2019 and it takes the currently 0-4 Jets kicker to miss an XP & a FG, the defense to hold the Jets to 0 points off 4 Josh Allen turnovers, and a comeback, 1 point win to convince people he's good. We follow that up with a good 1st half against the currently 2-2 Giants (0-2 with Eli), then disappear again until later in the 4th quarter after allowing them back in the game. Then we fight tooth & nail to hang on for dear life against the 0-4 Bengals, barely escaping with the win after once again disappearing for a half, eventually putting together a game-winning drive capped off by a Frank Gore TD to squeak by. 

But then we play our first good team, the defense shows up to dominate, and Allen looks like he always has, making the same mistakes over & over until eventually getting injured. We were still in a position that we could've won, but had we had any half way competent game manager at the position, we'd almost certainly have won. 

So here I sit, trying to envision a future in which Josh Allen is still a part of this team in 2 years, and turns himself into just an average starting QB yet still finding it incredibly difficult. I want him to succeed more than anything, but sadly I think it'll eventually cost McDermott, a very good coach, his job. Their futures are tied together, and if Allen keeps playing like this, McDermott likely won't get a chance to try again for another QB. I'll enjoy the wins we get the rest of the season, even if they are against lousy opponents, but until I see him either A) put together a complete good 4 quarters several times or B) not completely nose dive against quality competition, I have little hope he'll ever become the franchise guy.

[billsfan1959]

10 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

All I've been doing since the moment he was drafted is try to find evidence that everyone was wrong about him & he's not the QB I saw in college  to prove myself right.

 

There, fixed it for you.

Edited October 3, 2019 by billsfan1959

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

10 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

All I've been doing since the moment he was drafted is try to find evidence that everyone was wrong about him & he's not the QB I saw in college.

I've hoped & prayed our coaching staff could pull off a miracle & turn him into a player worthy of passing on Patrick Mahomes & Deshaun Watson in order to stock up on picks for the following year, but he doesn't ever seem to learn from his mistakes.

He still has yet to put together one great game, still has yet to play 4 straight quarters of good football this season, is one of the worst deep ball passers in the league (which was the one thing he was supposed to be good at), and hasn't played well against any good team he's faced. 

Last season when we were coming off the Bye, I posted a thread pointing out that we were about to go on a stretch against the weakest strength of schedule out of anyone in the entire league, so don't get too excited when we inevitably beat some of those teams. We went 3-3...people acted like barely beating the 3-8 Jaguars (by 3 points), 5-9 Lions (by 1 point) and blowing out the 7-8 Dolphins meant he's arrived! 

In that stretch we also lost to the 3-9 Jets at home (though we had just blown them out 3 weeks earlier on the road with Barkley), the 5-6 Dolphins and of course the Patriots (forgiven on that). 

Fast forward to 2019 and it takes the currently 0-4 Jets kicker to miss an XP & a FG, the defense to hold the Jets to 0 points off 4 Josh Allen turnovers, and a comeback, 1 point win to convince people he's good. We follow that up with a good 1st half against the currently 2-2 Giants (0-2 with Eli), then disappear again until later in the 4th quarter after allowing them back in the game. Then we fight tooth & nail to hang on for dear life against the 0-4 Bengals, barely escaping with the win after once again disappearing for a half, eventually putting together a game-winning drive capped off by a Frank Gore TD to squeak by. 

But then we play our first good team, the defense shows up to dominate, and Allen looks like he always has, making the same mistakes over & over until eventually getting injured. We were still in a position that we could've won, but had we had any half way competent game manager at the position, we'd almost certainly have won. 

So here I sit, trying to envision a future in which Josh Allen is still a part of this team in 2 years, and turns himself into just an average starting QB yet still finding it incredibly difficult. I want him to succeed more than anything, but sadly I think it'll eventually cost McDermott, a very good coach, his job. Their futures are tied together, and if Allen keeps playing like this, McDermott likely won't get a chance to try again for another QB. I'll enjoy the wins we get the rest of the season, even if they are against lousy opponents, but until I see him either A) put together a complete good 4 quarters several times or B) not completely nose dive against quality competition, I have little hope he'll ever become the franchise guy.

 

That is about as nit picky as it gets.  The poster above is right, you are the classic example of looking for evidence you are right.  The fact that Allen is already night and day a different passer from when he was in College is evidence enough. Sure, he may not end up being good enough, but to say he is the same guy from college is just absurd. 

[Bangarang]

24 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That is about as nit picky as it gets.  The poster above is right, you are the classic example of looking for evidence you are right.  The fact that Allen is already night and day a different passer from when he was in College is evidence enough. Sure, he may not end up being good enough, but to say he is the same guy from college is just absurd. 

 

Serious question, how is his passing night and day different from when he was in college?