Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[transplantbillsfan]

Oh

 

My 

 

God!!!

 

31 pages of nonsense!!!

 

The reality is that Josh Allen had one utterly atrocious game and 3 games where he showed a lot of promise

 

Week 1 against a Jets team WITH Darnold and very hyped in the offseason and Allen and the offense essentially moved the ball up and down the field at will. The problem was turnovers, obviously. But at least half--if not all--turnovers were not on Allen, mostly or entirely. Yet, he led the team back in the 4th quarter down 13 on the road to win. And he was accurate all game.

 

Solid.

 

Week 2 against the Giants on the road again Allen was fantastic in the 1st half. Threw for like 220 yards in the 1st half alone. Threw and ran for a TD. 3rd Quarter clearly the entire offense just took their foot off the gas, which is something I absolutely loathe but you almost have to expect it from any defensive coach not named Bellicheck. And again, he was accurate.

 

Really good.

 

Week 3 looked like it was going to be a carbon copy of week 2 with the Bills jumping out to a 2 score lead and Allen throwing for nearly 200 yards in the 1st half. Then the 3rd quarter happened with some accuracy and decision making problems for Allen and next thing ya know the Bengals came back. I will argue over and over that's why you NEVER change your offensive gameplan unless you're forced to, and the ONLY time that happens is if you're multiple scores behind in the game. Yet, Allen still led a 4th Quarter Game Winning Drive. Not quite as accurate in this game as the previous 2, but still accurate enough.

 

Solid.

 

Sunday against the Pats was just utterly atrocious. Allen was awful. It was his worst game in the NFL for sure. Not Peterman awful, but awful nonetheless. Yet he still had his moments. The deep shot to Knox who made a fantastic catch on the drive to end the half where we missed the FG. The 1st drive of the 2nd half. Allen still had his good moments in the game, too. And when he was knocked out of the game, he had the team in Pats territory down just 1 score and FINALLY looked like he was at least capable of moving the offense down the field.

 

Pump the brakes already on the idiotic calls that he sucks. If he sits out this Sunday because of his concussion, I'm fine with it because he has the bye to recover and I do like Barkley as a backup.

 

But make absolutely no mistake about this, even if Barkley starts and lights up the Titans like he did the Jets last year, Allen will still be the starter when he's healthy, just like last year.

 

And rightfully so.

Edited October 2, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Oh

 

My 

 

God!!!

 

 31 pages of nonsense!!!

 

The reality is that Josh Allen had one utterly atrocious game and 3 games where he showed a lot of promise

 

Week 1 against a Jets team WITH Darnold and very hyped in the offseason and Allen and the offense essentially moved the ball up and down the field at will. The problem was turnovers, obviously. But at least half--if not all--turnovers were not on Allen, mostly or entirely. Yet, he led the team back in the 4th quarter down 13 on the road to win. And he was accurate all game.

 

Solid.

 

Week 2 against the Giants on the road again Allen was fantastic in the 1st half. Threw for like 220 yards in the 1st half alone. Threw and ran for a TD. 3rd Quarter clearly the entire offense just took their foot off the gas, which is something I absolutely loathe but you almost have to expect it from any defensive coach not named Bellicheck. And again, he was accurate.

 

Really good.

 

Week 3 looked like it was going to be a carbon copy of week 2 with the Bills jumping out to a 2 score lead and Allen throwing for nearly 200 yards in the 1st half. Then the 3rd quarter happened with some accuracy and decision making problems for Allen and next thing ya know the Bengals came back. I will argue over and over that's why you NEVER change your offensive gameplan unless you're forced to, and the ONLY time that happens is if you're multiple scores behind in the game. Yet, Allen still led a 4th Quarter Game Winning Drive. Not quite as accurate in this game as the previous 2, but still accurate enough.

 

Solid.

 

Sunday against the Pats was just utterly atrocious. Allen was awful. It was his worst game in the NFL for sure. Not Peterman awful, but awful nonetheless. Yet he still had his moments. The deep shot to Knox who made a fantastic catch on the drive to end the half where we missed the FG. The 1st drive of the 2nd half. Allen still had his good moments in the game, too. And when he was knocked out of the game, he had the team in Pats territory down just 1 score and FINALLY looked like he was at least capable of moving the offense down the field.

 

Pump the brakes already on the idiotic calls that he sucks. If he sits out this Sunday because of his concussion, I'm fine with it because he has the bye to recover and I do like Barkley as a backup.

 

But make absolutely no mistake about this, even if Barkley starts and lights up the Titans like he did the Jets last year, Allen will still be the starter when he's healthy, just like last year.

 

And rightfully so.

 

Yep, it started silly, and it continues thanks to the diligent efforts of the OP......who is relentless. Silly, but relentless. 

 

I’m am the most recent guilty party. We should let this die. 

[reddogblitz]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

He had a bad game no question.  Could have done a lot more to win it.  But basic math tells you if the punt isn’t blocked the score was 10-9.

 

How do you know they wouldn't have returned the punt for a TD?

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

Look at all the positive yards grandpa Gore was getting. Not sure if he could have taken more touches, but when we do have the RB depth there is no reason not to run the ball if it is an effective strategy to move the chains.

 

The problem is there was no running back depth. They could have run a couple more times but I don't know how effective Gore would be once you got him upwards of 20 touches. Any play where you run Yeldon is a concession of the down. 

[Nihilarian]

7 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

So fire Daboll?

 

The most TD passes any QB had thrown under HC Andy Reid was 28 prior to Mahomes arrival. That was like a 20 year stretch. Andy Reid has a really solid offensive mind, but it seems like he retroactively became a "QB whisperer" and offensive genius when that kid from TT showed up.

 

I never said to fire the guy. What I did say (earlier in this thread) and am hoping for is that McD talks to Daboll and asks him to find a way to run the ball more. Kinda like the Patriots do when Brady is having a bad day...like he had on Sunday. 

Although, I think a big reason as to why Brady had a such a bad day is that they lost their starting center, left tackle and their line is in disarray. This is also the reason I think they didn't run the ball well against the Bills defense too.

 

NE might have a very complex playbook but with them its all about moving the chains time after time until they get into the red zone to score. They pass so well and so often because they have the GOAT at QB. The Bills have a very raw, close to being a rookie at QB (only started 15 games so far) Besides, that complex Patriots defense confuses even the best QB's. Look what they did to Goff in the SB.

 

 

As far as Buffalo running the ball. The Bills do currently have better overall talent on that line then they did when they led the league in rushing just a few short years ago. (2015-2016}

 

Its not all about TD passes as when Reid arrived in KC he traded for QB Alex Smith (who was on the outs in SF). Buffalo wanted him too and the Chiefs offered more for him.

 

Anyway, when Reid got to KC they went from a 2-14 mess in 2012 to 11-5 in 2013 his first season. Smith threw for 3340, 24 TDs, 8 INTs, and they also ran the ball for 2056 yards with 17 TDs. If you read through an earlier post in this thread I made mention of the array of talent that Mahomes has on that Chiefs team. Besides, Alex Smith is a game manager type QB and not an "air raid" gunslinger. Reid saw the talent from college, drafted it, let it sit and learn for a season while developing that talent and now he has it. 

 

Reid has always been an offensive genius in my view. As an NFL HC in his 21 seasons he has only had three losing seasons. He drafted and developed Donovan McNabb. Built that Eagles team into a SB team. Took QB Alex Smith who the 49ers had given up on and immediately went to the playoffs with him in KC. (BTW that 13-3 SF team wasn't because of Smith, it was because of a great defense)

 

[ALF]

I place more blame on pass protection . Place another OT at the TE position.   OL needs more time to gel , they are ok at run blocking.

 

Brady also was under pressure but got rid of the ball avoiding ints. Even intentional grounding is better then a turnover 

Edited October 2, 2019 by ALF

[Phil The Thrill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I agree- I am waiting for a reciever he trusts in all versions of the passing game like Fitzpatrick had Stevie- but with talent.

What worries me about this is, Favre seemed to elevate his WR’s.  Antonio Freeman were 3rd round draft picks. Mark Chmura was a 6th round draft pick. Donald Driver was a 6th round pick.

 

Favre never really had a highly ranked #1 WR to throw to, but he did make his receivers stars.  Allen has yet to do this.  

52 minutes ago, ALF said:

I place more blame on pass protection . Place another OT at the TE position.   OL needs more time to gel , they are ok at run blocking.

 

Brady also was under pressure but got rid of the ball avoiding ints. Even intentional grounding is better then a turnover 

I don’t think that is entirely correct.  Yes the line could have done a better job in protecting, but if you look at the game again, you’ll see Allen choose to leave the pocket when he didn’t have to.   Several of the sacks came from Allen trying to do too much.  
 

He held onto the ball, rather than trying to take what the defense gave him. 
 

So while the line could have been better, had Allen made quicker, smarter decisions, you wouldn’t have noticed so much pressure

[Phil The Thrill]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Oh

 

My 

 

God!!!

 

31 pages of nonsense!!!

 

The reality is that Josh Allen had one utterly atrocious game and 3 games where he showed a lot of promise

 

Week 1 against a Jets team WITH Darnold and very hyped in the offseason and Allen and the offense essentially moved the ball up and down the field at will. The problem was turnovers, obviously. But at least half--if not all--turnovers were not on Allen, mostly or entirely. Yet, he led the team back in the 4th quarter down 13 on the road to win. And he was accurate all game.

 

Solid.

 

Week 2 against the Giants on the road again Allen was fantastic in the 1st half. Threw for like 220 yards in the 1st half alone. Threw and ran for a TD. 3rd Quarter clearly the entire offense just took their foot off the gas, which is something I absolutely loathe but you almost have to expect it from any defensive coach not named Bellicheck. And again, he was accurate.

 

Really good.

 

Week 3 looked like it was going to be a carbon copy of week 2 with the Bills jumping out to a 2 score lead and Allen throwing for nearly 200 yards in the 1st half. Then the 3rd quarter happened with some accuracy and decision making problems for Allen and next thing ya know the Bengals came back. I will argue over and over that's why you NEVER change your offensive gameplan unless you're forced to, and the ONLY time that happens is if you're multiple scores behind in the game. Yet, Allen still led a 4th Quarter Game Winning Drive. Not quite as accurate in this game as the previous 2, but still accurate enough.

 

Solid.

 

Sunday against the Pats was just utterly atrocious. Allen was awful. It was his worst game in the NFL for sure. Not Peterman awful, but awful nonetheless. Yet he still had his moments. The deep shot to Knox who made a fantastic catch on the drive to end the half where we missed the FG. The 1st drive of the 2nd half. Allen still had his good moments in the game, too. And when he was knocked out of the game, he had the team in Pats territory down just 1 score and FINALLY looked like he was at least capable of moving the offense down the field.

 

Pump the brakes already on the idiotic calls that he sucks. If he sits out this Sunday because of his concussion, I'm fine with it because he has the bye to recover and I do like Barkley as a backup.

 

But make absolutely no mistake about this, even if Barkley starts and lights up the Titans like he did the Jets last year, Allen will still be the starter when he's healthy, just like last year.

 

And rightfully so.

Let me make this crystal clear - If you actually read my comments - I never NEVER said he “sucks.”  I did say he was horrible against NE, which you also said.

 

I’d also disagree with your take that his performance against Cincinnati and the Jets was “solid.”  He was very good in the 4th quarter but you can argue, based on the total yardage, that his earlier turnovers prevented the Bills from putting the game away sooner.  
 

My point...again...:was that we’ve seen very good moments and some very bad moments over the first 3 games.  The game against New England, sans the one scoring drive, was largely negative.  We saw Josh revert back to the old bad habits from college.  
 

So I asked, based on that bad performance, if you were concerned about the future.   Personally, I think this might be a red flag, but we will have to let the season unfold to see what happens.  

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Phil The Thrill

[london_bills]

7 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

There’s a difference between being biased and being honest with what you are seeing - even when it’s not what the result you want.  Many Bills fans seem to have an issue with the latter.  
 

There are all kinds of excuses and bogus rationalizations (like you saying the blocked punt was the difference) for Josh’s performance but the bottom line is - he stunk.  He hurt the team very badly and had it not been for excellent defense, his mistakes could have sunk the team.  Everyone who watches the game said it.  I just read Joe Buscaglia’s All 22 report and Josh got a D+.....a D+! 
 

The jury is still very much out on Allen.  While his game winning drives given us hope, performances like Cincinnati and New England make you second guess whether he’ll actually fix his game.  That’s the whole point of this thread.

I think a point that should be made - which I've alluded to, is that the defence is protecting Allen.

 

Because the defense has played so well Allen's INTs and FUMBLES haven't been highlighted as much as they WOULD have been if the defence had folded and we were blown out. It would have been highlighted that Allen lost us the game there.

 

Could argue that it's good for his 'development' for Allen to fail before he succeeds but the defence has allowed him to take his risks. I'm OK with Allen's risks as long as he gets better.. HOWEVER im not convinced he's going to get the point where WE WANT after seeing him regress like that.

Edited October 2, 2019 by london_bills

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I don’t think that is entirely correct.  Yes the line could have done a better job in protecting, but if you look at the game again, you’ll see Allen choose to leave the pocket when he didn’t have to.   Several of the sacks came from Allen trying to do too much.  
 

He held onto the ball, rather than trying to take what the defense gave him. 
 

So while the line could have been better, had Allen made quicker, smarter decisions, you wouldn’t have noticed so much pressure

 

Agree. There were two sacks that were absolutely not on Allen that were just protection break downs or failure to pick up the blitz. The others were on him holding the ball too long.

[ALF]

PFF has Ford and Morse graded below average  fwiw

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Let me make this crystal clear - If you actually read my comments - I never NEVER said he “sucks.”  I did say he was horrible against NE, which you also said.

 

I’d also disagree with your take that his performance against Cincinnati and the Jets was “solid.”  He was very good in the 4th quarter but you can argue, based on the total yardage, that his earlier turnovers prevented the Bills from putting the game away sooner.  
 

My point...again...:was that we’ve seen very good moments and some very bad moments over the first 3 games.  The game against New England, sans the one scoring drive, was largely negative.  We saw Josh revert back to the old bad habits from college.  
 

So I asked, based on that bad performance, if you were concerned about the future.   Personally, I think this might be a red flag, but we will have to let the season unfold to see what happens.  

 

 

So from a statistical perspective, you want to take a sample set of N=1, the poor outing Sunday, and conflate that into some sort of conclusion?  That doesn't make sense.

 

He played bad Sunday.  The three games before he showed more pocket awareness, very good accuracy, got the ball out earlier.  Shoed he was getting it.  I attribute the bad game Sunday to two things:  the moment being a bit too big for him at this point in his career (he came out too amped up, which is something he has to figure out), and a guy named Belicihick.

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, ALF said:

PFF has Ford and Morse graded below average  fwiw

 

I think Morse has been okay. He has been an upgrade on the Bodine / Groy combo but he has not earned his big contract yet. I am still waiting for that one performance where he really dominates and I haven't seen it to this point. Only four games in though. No need to panic yet.

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Wasn't considered by whom?

 

I'm not sure what you're basing this on.  But I live in Seattle and watch the Seahawks a lot just cuz their local and on.  I pegged Russell as a good passer right out of the chute.  That's the difference between him and other running QBs.  he is also a really good passer and was the start IMHO.  I recall one game in particular where they were down on last drive Russell threw a perfect 30 yard pass to Sidney Rice to get the win.

 

In his rookie year he threw for 3100+ yards at a 64.1 % for 7.9 YPA 26 TDs vs 10 picks. I'd take that all day everyday.  Even from our 2nd year guy.  He's almost got the picks.  So at least there's that.

 

The early thought on Wilson by many commentators and fans outside of Seattle was that he was a good passer on a team with a great running game and a great defense.  It wasn't until after the Seahawks Super Bowl teams were dismantled and Wilson was essentially their entire offense that a lot of so-called "experts" conceded he was a great passer.

 

I have been a Wilson fan since I saw him play his first game at Wisconsin, and I have followed his career ever since.  Needless to say, I was pretty PO that the Bills passed on him to trade up to take the useless WR TJ Graham.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

A lot open underneath.  Gotta get some common sense.   I dont understand. His thinking

[london_bills]

16 minutes ago, Buffaloed in Pa said:

A lot open underneath.  Gotta get some common sense.   I dont understand. His thinking

Yeah. One big change - start to pump fake the deep ball with the intent to throw underneath

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The early thought on Wilson by many commentators and fans outside of Seattle was that he was a good passer on a team with a great running game and a great defense.  It wasn't until after the Seahawks Super Bowl teams were dismantled and Wilson was essentially their entire offense that a lot of so-called "experts" conceded he was a great passer.

 

I have been a Wilson fan since I saw him play his first game at Wisconsin, and I have followed his career ever since.  Needless to say, I was pretty PO that the Bills passed on him to trade up to take the useless WR TJ Graham.

 

Sounds like the so-called "experts" need to work on their experting.  Russell was a very good passer from the first day of training camp on and still is.  

[london_bills]

49 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Sounds like the so-called "experts" need to work on their experting.  Russell was a very good passer from the first day of training camp on and still is.  

Something like accuracy would be evident from day one. In the same way than Allen's athleticism would be evident from day one.

[Logic]

5 hours ago, Buffaloed in Pa said:

A lot open underneath.  Gotta get some common sense.   I dont understand. His thinking

Probably because you've never had to find an open receiver while four to six 250+ lb men were running at you full speed with intent to maim. 

[LSHMEAB]

8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

 

 

 

As far as Buffalo running the ball. The Bills do currently have better overall talent on that line then they did when they led the league in rushing just a few short years ago. (2015-2016}

 

Reid has always been an offensive genius in my view. As an NFL HC in his 21 seasons he has only had three losing seasons. He drafted and developed Donovan McNabb. Built that Eagles team into a SB team. Took QB Alex Smith who the 49ers had given up on and immediately went to the playoffs with him in KC. (BTW that 13-3 SF team wasn't because of Smith, it was because of a great defense)

 

I think the combo of Kromer and Roman was lethal in terms of run game coordination. I wouldn't agree that the overall talent level is better than in 2015-16, and certainly not in terms of run blocking. Glenn and Cogs were maulers. 

 

What's kind of odd is that the new additions are generally massive, but better in pass pro than downhill blocking. The downhill blocking is definitely better than last season, but that's not saying much. We'll see if they get better as the season progresses. Both Dawkins are Ford have got to play better.

 

As far as Reid goes, again; he's been around the league A LONG time and NEVER had a QB put together a stretch like we've seen from Mahomes. Yeah, they have talent, but guys go down and he continues to elevate the play of the newcomers. He's elite. There's just no two ways about it.

 

We'll see how Josh does his next go round. We'll call that a mulligan on the big stage against a great defense if he can put it behind him and improve his efficiency. It's all speculation at this point. He's gonna have every chance in the world to prove what he's about.