DrDawkinstein Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: Is this insane thread still going? Come on ppl Im just surprised it hasnt turned into a "Should we be looking at Kaep?" discussion. "Discussion" being used loosely there.
jletha Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 I think anyone that is still 100% convinced that Josh is the guy is lying to themselves a bit but at the same time if you are 100% sure he has no chance at being a decent starer in this league then you're also being disingenuous. Through the first two games, and a good portion of the Bengals game, there was more good Josh than bad Josh. That is encouraging and was progress from the year before. Every advanced stat showed that he was legitimately improving in decision making and accuracy. The biggest thing I wanted to see going into Cincy and especially NE was to be good Josh for 4 quarters and to minimize dumb turnovers. Boy howdy did that not happen at all. Im still willing to give him many more games though. I still have hope.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 I was thinking about this whole Mahomes regret thing. Who's worse in that situation? The Bills or the Bears? The Bears traded up to take Trubisky. The Bills traded down out of the spot Mahomes was taken in. To me, the BEARS are the ones who made the grand error.
jrober38 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I was thinking about this whole Mahomes regret thing. Who's worse in that situation? The Bills or the Bears? The Bears traded up to take Trubisky. The Bills traded down out of the spot Mahomes was taken in. To me, the BEARS are the ones who made the grand error. I think it's the Bills. For all we know the Bears might have thought a couple QBs that year were going to be good, but they liked Trubisky the most and thought he'd be elite so they traded up. For us, we essentially said we think this guy won't be any good, and we're not picking him. There's no unknown in how we viewed Mahomes. We obviously didn't think he'd be any good. This is what made the Josh Allen pick so strange. The Bills passed on one of the most productive QBs in college history, with the cannon arm, good size, good mobility and good intangibles, and then traded up for a worse version of all that the following year. Totally bizarre. Edited October 1, 2019 by jrober38
billsfan89 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: You don't need to hit Allen to teach him how to respond to situations. Your ability to teach someone how to respond to game situations is very limited in practice because practice isn’t a game due to many factors, one of them being the lack of contact on a QB. Your best learning experience on how to react to a situation is to be in that situation as much as possible. I don’t see the tangible benefit of sitting Josh long term. I think it is best to sit him against the Titans and into the bye to get his head right, 3 weeks of rest is a positive and it gives him some time to reevaluate himself. But after a couple of weeks off what does his development have to gain by sitting? However if Josh is ready to go he still gives this team the best opportunity to win (I have no clue why people think Barkley is a better option) and the chance of him developing the situational awareness and habits is only going to be improved by playing. I just really don’t see how he is going to improve significantly on the bench. When Josh was drafted he was a project, last season and the first three weeks this season everyone loved Josh but one bad game against a very good defense and suddenly he stinks? Sorry but I think the calls for long term benching and other strong reactions are just week to week reactionary BS. Let Josh play the whole season and then reevaluate him and what your plans with him long term are. And that’s not to blindly defend Josh, he has had frustrating issues that manifested themselves badly in the NE game. However I think he doesn’t deserves a snap judgement based off of one bad game. Let Josh play out the season and then reassert your options after you have a full sample size.
zow2 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 The guest from MMQB who was on with Murph and Tasker is pretty down on Josh Allen. Said not only has he been mostly subpar this year but feels he has regressed from the end of the 2018 season. So there ya go.
jrober38 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, zow2 said: The guest from MMQB who was on with Murph and Tasker is pretty down on Josh Allen. Said not only has he been mostly subpar this year but feels he has regressed from the end of the 2018 season. So there ya go. Most people in the national media who cover this team objectively are down on Josh Allen. Most were never "up". 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I think it's the Bills. For all we know the Bears might have thought a couple QBs that year were going to be good, but they liked Trubisky the most and thought he'd be elite so they traded up. For us, we essentially said we think this guy won't be any good, and we're not picking him. There's no unknown in how we viewed Mahomes. We obviously didn't think he'd be any good. This is what made the Josh Allen pick so strange. The Bills passed on one of the most productive QBs in college history, with the cannon arm, good size, good mobility and good intangibles, and then traded up for a worse version of all that the following year. Totally bizarre.
jrober38 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: You don't think it was weird? Mahomes - good size - good mobility - rocket arm - good intangibles - elite college production Allen - elite size - good mobility - rocket arm - good intangibles - poor college production We passed on the first guy, and then traded up for the second guy. Made no sense.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: Sammy Watkins has been an under achiever for the past 3 years. Demarcus Robinson and Mecole Hardman are nobodies. He's got an unbelievable tight end, but his wide receivers are nothing special. He's elevated their play considerably with his talent. Are people really trying to pretend Mahomes just isn’t awesome? His LT is out too. Great qbs raise up the level of the players around them. Qbs who aren’t good enough get bailed out by excuses like they don’t have enough playmakers around them. 1
jrober38 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Are people really trying to pretend Mahomes just isn’t awesome? His LT is out too. Great qbs raise up the level of the players around them. Qbs who aren’t good enough get bailed out by excuses like they don’t have enough playmakers around them. Some people seem to be crediting his success to the "elite" weapons he has around him. I think he'd be putting up the same numbers with our skill players. As you suggested the guy is just amazing. Doesn't matter who he plays with, he'll produce.
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Are people really trying to pretend Mahomes just isn’t awesome? His LT is out too. Great qbs raise up the level of the players around them. Qbs who aren’t good enough get bailed out by excuses like they don’t have enough playmakers around them. At this point nobody should be bad mouthing Mahommes......it is what it is. Moving on.....we have OUR qb that is who I am focusing on
DrDawkinstein Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I think it's the Bills. For all we know the Bears might have thought a couple QBs that year were going to be good, but they liked Trubisky the most and thought he'd be elite so they traded up. For us, we essentially said we think this guy won't be any good, and we're not picking him. There's no unknown in how we viewed Mahomes. We obviously didn't think he'd be any good. This is what made the Josh Allen pick so strange. The Bills passed on one of the most productive QBs in college history, with the cannon arm, good size, good mobility and good intangibles, and then traded up for a worse version of all that the following year. Totally bizarre. That is your, and only your, interpretation. What is more accurate is that our first year head coach knew that 1. the current GM was out the door, and 2. said GM did not have a great history in scouting/picking QBs. McDermott was not going to saddle his coaching career, and the career of the new GM he was bringing in, with a QB pick based on the scouting of the previous regime. It didnt matter if it was Mahomes, Trubisky, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Jim Kelly, or John Elway. They Bills were simply not going to take a QB in 2017. McD's MO was to trade back to get more picks for his future GM, and add talent where possible. The moves made in the 2017 draft did not mean anything as it pertains to the FOs thoughts/feelings about any of the prospects.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, John from Riverside said: At this point nobody should be bad mouthing Mahommes......it is what it is. Moving on.....we have OUR qb that is who I am focusing on Agreed though the Mahomes thing will hang around Allen, even though it’s not his fault. I can’t imagine how Bears fans feel with their SB team minus qb. Mahomes with the Bears D?
jrober38 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That is your, and only your, interpretation. What is more accurate is that our first year head coach knew that 1. the current GM was out the door, and 2. said GM did not have a great history in scouting/picking QBs. McDermott was not going to saddle his coaching career, and the career of the new GM he was bringing in, with a QB pick based on the scouting of the previous regime. It didnt matter if it was Mahomes, Trubisky, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Jim Kelly, or John Elway. They Bills were simply not going to take a QB in 2017. McD's MO was to trade back to get more picks for his future GM, and add talent where possible. The moves made in the 2017 draft did not mean anything as it pertains to the FOs thoughts/feelings about any of the prospects. You realize this is just an opinion right? If this is true (and I don't think it is), either the Pegulas don't know what they're doing, or McDermott is unbelievably stubborn. Edited October 1, 2019 by jrober38
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: That is your, and only your, interpretation. What is more accurate is that our first year head coach knew that 1. the current GM was out the door, and 2. said GM did not have a great history in scouting/picking QBs. McDermott was not going to saddle his coaching career, and the career of the new GM he was bringing in, with a QB pick based on the scouting of the previous regime. It didnt matter if it was Mahomes, Trubisky, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, Jim Kelly, or John Elway. They Bills were simply not going to take a QB in 2017. McD's MO was to trade back to get more picks for his future GM, and add talent where possible. The moves made in the 2017 draft did not mean anything as it pertains to the FOs thoughts/feelings about any of the prospects. Why do go into a draft with that situation in the first place? Why don’t you hire the GM who then hires his coach?
jrober38 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Agreed though the Mahomes thing will hang around Allen, even though it’s not his fault. I can’t imagine how Bears fans feel with their SB team minus qb. Mahomes with the Bears D? 19-0.
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Agreed though the Mahomes thing will hang around Allen, even though it’s not his fault. I can’t imagine how Bears fans feel with their SB team minus qb. Mahomes with the Bears D? Yep.....it will be talked about....and frankly I compare Josh Allen more to the progression line of Tribisky then Mahommes.....and now they are both hurt For me its Josh Allen AND Tre WHite.....not Josh vs Patrick which softens the blow for me a little. 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Yep.....it will be talked about....and frankly I compare Josh Allen more to the progression line of Tribisky then Mahommes.....and now they are both hurt For me its Josh Allen AND Tre WHite.....not Josh vs Patrick which softens the blow for me a little. It sucks because Tre White is a great young player. But qb just trumps everything. I need much more of Allen looking like a qb to even get close to thinking this is ok. With our d, Allen is going to have a chance to win a bunch of games. But like with Mitch T, is he just along for the ride or is he driving the train like Mahomes?
DrDawkinstein Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Why do go into a draft with that situation in the first place? Why don’t you hire the GM who then hires his coach? Great question for the Pegulas. If I remember correctly, it was because they were surprisingly blown away by McD as a breathe of fresh air they hadnt yet experienced in the building around OBD. And given the Wilson/Overdorf/Brandon/Whaley lineage and culture, I dont doubt that. Plus, it's rare to fire a GM right before the draft. I believe the Pegulas fully intended to find a HC to work with Whaley, but ended up finding something better. And by then it was too late into the offseason to clean house. You have to wait until after the draft. Plus, all the money they spent on consulting groups was to find HC candidates, not GM. So they started there. Theres plenty the Pegulas have done already that I dont love. Still dont like their "flat org chart" where everyone answers to Terry. It makes for less accountability. But here we are. Edited October 1, 2019 by DrDawkinstein 1
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