Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Maybe... but I see progression with Jones.  You saw it with Mayfield and Lamar.  I’m not seeing the same amount of progress with Josh.  He seems to be making the mistakes he made as “Bad Josh” last 

 

With all the hate on Allen, where is the discussion on the coaching.  Certainly Allen is responsible for his play, but what about the coaching?  Everyone here, to include team management, knew he was a long term project with a high ceiling.  He wasn’t even supposed to play year one.  So where is the discussion on Dorsey, Dabol, and McDermott?  They share in the responsibility to coach the hero ball mentality out of him, or at least when to use it.  When they are in FG range, is someone telling Allen through the headset, Do No Take a Sack here!  Sure, he should have the situational awareness, but coaches should helping him as well.  This weekend was the first I heard of Dabol getting in his ear.  Next time, grab his face mask or something.  I still have a lot of faith in Allen, because if he and the coaches can get this figured out, he can become the franchise QB we have been waiting for.  As hard as it is in today’s NFL, we must have patience.  As someone who also followed the Chargers, Brees had a slow start as well, he didn’t really start blossoming until year 3.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, london_bills said:

I hear you but his health as the franchise QB is more important than diving head first for a first down. His coach would say the same thing.

 

Its symptomatic of his moment to moment thinking which can be brilliant but can also be haphazard.

 

Easy to say after the event but weren't you concerned he would get injured at some point? He was getting hit alot and put himself in harm's way too much. I understand the game is about 'toughness' but if you keep running head first as a QB your going to get your head smashed sooner or later.

 

 

Somewhat concerned, but he’s a big guy and seems pretty sturdy. He’s made a lot of big plays like that and they’re exciting. It’s a fine line, and the NFL doesn’t do a lot to protect QBs that aren’t among the anointed ones.Look at the shots Newton has been subjected to. I get it, but I also love his competitive fire and don’t want that going out of his game. I want him to hate losing, especially to NE. It’s a whole other level of hate for that team. He wasn’t running the whole time with his head down either. 

[bmur66]

14 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I was at the game Sunday and there was 1 reason the Bills lost the game.  They lost the game for one reason - Josh Allen.  He was absolutely putrid at QB.  I’m a big fan of Allen but he was THE reason why we lost.  
 

We’re starting to get to the point where you can’t use the whole “lack of experience” excuses for Allen.  For all the progress be seemed to make, we still see him revert back to the traits (holding onto the ball, poor footwork passing up short routes, inaccuracies) from college.  
 

We saw on Sunday that the thing he does well, scrambling, leaves his open for huge cheap shots to the head.  

He also doesn’t seem to be elevating the offense either.  Take a look at how much better NYG has been since Daniel Jones took over last week.  Or how much better Cleveland was behind Baker and not Tyrod.  Or to a MUCH lesser extent Gardiner Minshew in Jacksonville.   Allen has struggled to generate much more than 20 points per game.
 

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

If you haven’t lost faith, what give you hope that he will eventually start elevating the offense?  

I’m completely on the fence, but trending toward skepticism, unfortunately. 

Absolutely not.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Good one.  Forgot him.

 

Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to 15 wins, the AFC North title, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2004.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to 11 wins, a wild card berth, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2008.

Andy Dalton took the Bengals to a wild card berth as a rookie in 2011.

Andrew Luck took the Colts to 11 wins and a wild card berth as a rookie in 2013.

Deshaun Watson looked good for a rookie QB in 2017 before he was sidelined with a season ending injury.  He came back in 2018 and led the Texans to an 11-5 record and the AFC South title, so he pretty much "got it" from the get-go.

Baker Mayfield set the rookie TD record in 2018.

 

I would say that all of these rookie QBs "got it right off the bat", so rookie QBs playing competently isn't as rare as it may have been 30 years ago. 

 

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

With all the hate on Allen, where is the discussion on the coaching.  Certainly Allen is responsible for his play, but what about the coaching?  Everyone here, to include team management, knew he was a long term project with a high ceiling.  He want even supposed to play year one.  So where is the discussion on Dorsey, Dabol, and McDermott?  They share in the responsibility to coach the hero ball mentality out of him, or at least when to use it.  When they are in FG range, is someone telling Allen through the headset, Do No Take a Sack here!  Sure, he should have the situational awareness, but coaches should helping him as well.  This weekend was the first I heard of Dabol getting in his ear.  Next time, grab his face mask or something.  I still have a lot of faith in Allen, because if he and the coaches can get this figured out, he can become the franchise QB we have been waiting for.  As hard as it is in today’s NFL, we must have patience.  As someone who also followed the Chargers, Brees had a slow start as well, he didn’t really start blossoming until year 3.

Its harder to see what's going on with the coaching isn't it.

 

With Allen we can see what's happening or make our judgments easier. With the coaching there has to be an element of faith they are doing the right thing.

 

Dabolls been animated at him on the sideline in this game and the Bengals game after the INTS. Regarding the interceptions and sacks, McDermott said in today's presser (paraphrasing) that 'We have to continue to make it CLEAR what is acceptable and not'.

 

However, Allen did say in last week's interview that 'mcdermott does a great job of teaching us situational football'. ?

[QCity]

14 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

So have you lost faith in Josh Allen?

 

It certainly isn't increasing.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to 15 wins, the AFC North title, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2004.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to 11 wins, a wild card berth, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2008.

Andy Dalton took the Bengals to a wild card berth as a rookie in 2011.

Andrew Luck took the Colts to 11 wins and a wild card berth as a rookie in 2013.

Deshaun Watson looked good for a rookie QB in 2017 before he was sidelined with a season ending injury.  He came back in 2018 and led the Texans to an 11-5 record and the AFC South title, so he pretty much "got it" from the get-go.

Baker Mayfield set the rookie TD record in 2018.

 

I would say that all of these rookie QBs "got it right off the bat", so rookie QBs playing competently isn't as rare as it may have been 30 years ago. 

 

Ben R also threw very limited passes per game that year. It’s also possible that JA could lead the Bills to a WC berth in his first full season as starter. Lots of football left to go before any decision is made on this guy. Every player is different, and it really doesn’t matter if fans believe in him from the jump. They’re not making the decisions, and that’s probably a very good thing. 

[Augie]

25 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Sliding wasn’t going to get the first down. There’s a time to slide and that wasn’t it. A cheap hit doesn’t mean you don’t fight for a key first down. 

 

I’m good with a slide and going for it on 4th and 2 there. I truly respect how much he wants to get it done, but he hurts the team when he’s out. Tough situation. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

HELL F IN NO!!!

 

Duh.

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

 

It is incomprehensible to me that you'd take Dalton, Cousins or Flacco over Allen right now. Talk about recency bias. Would you have made this insane claim after the Giants game? No chance.

 

I would take Dalton right now on this team, for just this year. He wouldn’t be nearly as good at hero ball, but I don’t think we would have had to either. I’d throw Brisset into the mix as well. 

 

I am not throwing JA’s future out. Just looking at how this team is set up and the QB play they need. 

[london_bills]

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Somewhat concerned, but he’s a big guy and seems pretty sturdy. He’s made a lot of big plays like that and they’re exciting. It’s a fine line, and the NFL doesn’t do a lot to protect QBs that aren’t among the anointed ones.Look at the shots Newton has been subjected to. I get it, but I also love his competitive fire and don’t want that going out of his game. I want him to hate losing, especially to NE. It’s a whole other level of hate for that team. He wasn’t running the whole time with his head down either. 

Keep the fire. Just play in a way that doesnt shorten your career and leaves the bills with a void at QB.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Augie said:

 

I’m good with a slide and going for it on 4th and 2 there. I truly respect how much he wants to get it done, but he hurts the team when he’s out. Tough situation. 

They may have done that if he had. He was definitely in the moment.  It’s a tough situation for sure, and he still has to learn when to say when. I’d say he’ll likely always err a bit on the side of dangerous, even when he tones it down. 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to 15 wins, the AFC North title, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2004.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to 11 wins, a wild card berth, and an appearance in the AFC Conference championship as a rookie in 2008.

Andy Dalton took the Bengals to a wild card berth as a rookie in 2011.

Andrew Luck took the Colts to 11 wins and a wild card berth as a rookie in 2013.

Deshaun Watson looked good for a rookie QB in 2017 before he was sidelined with a season ending injury.  He came back in 2018 and led the Texans to an 11-5 record and the AFC South title, so he pretty much "got it" from the get-go.

Baker Mayfield set the rookie TD record in 2018.

 

I would say that all of these rookie QBs "got it right off the bat", so rookie QBs playing competently isn't as rare as it may have been 30 years ago. 

 

Luck is a good one.  Big Ben and Flacco relies on a strong D and strong running game, which may not be a bad idea for the Bills.  Let Allen develop.

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m good with a slide and going for it on 4th and 2 there. I truly respect how much he wants to get it done, but he hurts the team when he’s out. Tough situation. 

Absolutely, that way you 'develop' him by giving him a pressure 4th down.

[Augie]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

They may have done that if he had. He was definitely in the moment.  It’s a tough situation for sure, and he still has to learn when to say when. I’d say he’ll likely always err a bit on the side of dangerous, even when he tones it down. 

 

Hopefully this is part of the lesson that helps him tone it down. He’s a smart kid, but that was a dumb and panicked game. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still all in until it’s clear it won’t work. I won’t panic after one horrible game, in fact I saw this coming. The path will not be straight or easy, but the ceiling is ridiculous. Time will tell if he gets there. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Its harder to see what's going on with the coaching isn't it.

 

With Allen we can see what's happening or make our judgments easier. With the coaching there has to be an element of faith they are doing the right thing.

 

Dabolls been animated at him on the sideline in this game and the Bengals game after the INTS. Regarding the interceptions and sacks, McDermott said in today's presser (paraphrasing) that 'We have to continue to make it CLEAR what is acceptable and not'.

 

However, Allen did say in last week's interview that 'mcdermott does a great job of teaching us situational football'. ?

 

Well, bottom line is.  He and the coaches will get it fixed or he’ll be a backup somewhere else in a few years.  He’s definitely shown strides, but for the sake of the franchise, the Bills need to continue to invest in the infrastructure around him and he NEEDS TO PLAY too see if he will develop into the QB we desire.  That way if he flames out, the next QB will be in a better situation.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Absolutely, that way you 'develop' him by giving him a pressure 4th down.

 

His offseason should include a TON of watching Russell Wilson film. Live to fight another day. 

[Green Lightning]

Haven't lost faith but the guy is a turnover machine right now. The picks he is throwing are just assinine decisions. He is repeating his mistakes and that is a big concern to me. 

[frostbitmic]

Losing faith in Allen ... NO

 

Losing faith in the NFL ... YES

[Bangarang]

59 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Sliding wasn’t going to get the first down. There’s a time to slide and that wasn’t it. A cheap hit doesn’t mean you don’t fight for a key first down. 

He was already wrapped up before the hit and was still a few yards short of the 1st down. He takes a lot of hits and needs to be smarter when he runs.