Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[reddogblitz]

37 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The Bills should be running the ball much more then they are passing it and they should have been doing this all season. If they are forced to pass because the run game isn't working then find those short passes that allow completions, get confidence up, get him in a rhythm and good things should happen.

 

Instead, the Bills came out throwing Pass, pass, sack! Penalty on Pats defense for holding! Frank Gore 9 yards, Gore 2 yards and back to the passing again. Pass, incomplete but Center Mitch Morse penalty. Frank Gore run, no gain. Penalty on Lee Smith holding. Now its 1st and 20 on the Buffalo 30 yard line and Allen goes deep middle, intercepted! 

 

I'm going to be interested to see if this continues.  Coach McDermott has a monster D and just needs an offense to protect the football and score a few points to win (even against the defending SB champs).  The AFC is weak this year 1/4 of the way in.  We are one game ahead of everyone else in WC right now.  I'm thinking Coach McDermott doesn't want to blow this D baby sitting a turn over machine 2nd year QB.  I suspect we may see a more conservative run/short passing/protect the football type offense and win games with the D.  It worked in 2017.  It's who he is I think.

 

 

As Josh progresses he can throw more passes.

Edited September 30, 2019 by reddogblitz

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

if you still consider Allen a first year QB then by that logic Mahomes was also a first year QB during an MVP season. Barkley is also a first year QB too so if he makes a mistake then that’s fine since he’s still a rookie. 

How many games has Allen played?  And I mentioned Mahomes as a exception, did I not?  Instead of the word rookie, use young.  Young QB’s -I’ll define it as two years or less in the league.  The have learning curves.  That work better for you?

[Seven-N-Nine]

I never really had much faith that Allen would change all that much from what he was described as during the draft.  He really hasn't.

[MaltaBillsFan]

Incredible, are we really this fickle?  

[reddogblitz]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The only first year QB (and by starts Allen is finishing his first year) I have ever seen who walked into the league and got it right off the bat was Marino.  Every other one took time either on the bench or playing and suffering before the light came on.  

 

Russell Wilson was another.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

Russell Wilson was another.

Good one.  Forgot him.

[Chill]

I initially and still do have lukewarm faith in JA. I expected a huge jump this year, there’s still time.? 

[london_bills]

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes it can go away.  It’s a learning process.

 

The only first year QB (and by starts Allen is finishing his first year) I have ever seen who walked into the league and got it right off the bat was Marino.  Every other one took time either on the bench or playing and suffering before the light came on.  The only one I could remotely put near Marino is Mahomes but he sat for a year learning before taking the reins.  

 

QBs make mistakes.  Especially young ones and Josh made a ton yesterday to be sure (Belichick has done that to dozens of young QBs through the years).  But even old guys still mess up - the pick  Brady threw in the end zone yesterday, I have no idea what he was thinking.

Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson were both good straight away. Daniel Jones already looks great after two games. Cam Newton was good straight away. Lamar Jackson is good straight away.

Exactly the same thing was said about EJ Manuel. Because we want it so badly

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Comparing Apples to baseballs here...

 

I hope Allen can play this weekend to see how he does against a good defense.  If he has a good game, I’ll feel more confident.  If we see Wyoming Josh I’ll continue to be skeptical 

 

YOU started the comparison! So are you saying your previous post was BS and invalid?

[HOUSE]

If he doesn't play for a while, need I remind you how he played after the injury last year?

 

It may be back to school time for Josh Allen

[DuckyBoys]

4 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson were both good straight away. Daniel Jones already looks great after two games. Cam Newton was good straight away. Lamar Jackson is good straight away.

Exactly the same thing was said about EJ Manuel. Because we want it so badly

Cam Newton was a horrible passer so they had him run a rpo based college one read offense.  Russel Wilson had a great d and a heavy run game that set up play action for him.Lamar is running a gimmick offense to accentuate what he does well.  Daniel Jones is two games in so who knows.  Watson was excellent right way but I dont think its the norm.  Its too early to panic but he should start showing progress this season  At least stop with the endless parade of bone headed plays I can see a mistake here or there trying to make a play but yesterday was over the top bad.

[Zerovoltz]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

He made Mahomes look bad too last year.

 

Mahomes was 23/36 for 352 4TD and 2 INTs in a 40-43 loss where Brady had the ball last and they kicked a field goal as time expired.  Clearly he was "bad"

Mahomes was 16/31 for 295 3TD and 0 INTs in a 31-37 OT loss in the AFC title game, again....."bad"

 

2 games, Mahomes and the offense put up 71 points,  Mahomes was 39/67 for 647 yards 7TD and 2 INTS.  BB has his number.

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson were both good straight away. Daniel Jones already looks great after two games. Cam Newton was good straight away. Lamar Jackson is good straight away.

Exactly the same thing was said about EJ Manuel. Because we want it so badly

And Jackson has had tough games the last two.  Watson himself admitted he cost the Texans the game yesterday.  Newton had ups and downs; going into this season how many folks were talking about whether he was done.  Jones has played two games and I will guarantee he will have bad games this year.

 

Allen has a tough game yesterday.  He was bad.  He played pretty well the first three games of the year.  You claim we overestimate Allen because we want it so badly.  I would say we have too many around here that are hypercritical of a kid figuring it out while giving other guys on other teams passes when they do the same.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Idk what the enigma with Barkley is.. he is not that great... He is probably the 15-20th best backup not top 5

 

He is a poor man's Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

He came in on short notice and beat the Jets and became a folk hero to some

 

He has alot of flaws that have already been exposed on tape over his career, and getting gameplanned for will just expose them more

 

He makes good , not great decisions and his arm strength is severely lacking, not to mention his escapability and sense of pressure are below average

 

He has the ability to play well at times but has shown in game time that he usually won't get it done. He has a worse career TD to INT ratio than Josh and he was a pro ready QB out of USC

 

Josh was the greenest QB and has improved immensely already since last season

 

I have no idea what you are basing that opinion on.

[Dr. Who]

Nope.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I have no idea what you are basing that opinion on.

My eyes and using my football knowledge.

 

He is not anywhere close to an elite backup, he has a negative TD to INT ratio throughout his career and doesn't give you any improv skills. He throws 3 routes well

 

So he is extremely limited

 

 

There are 64 QBs who are top 2 on Depth chart's. He isn't top 40. Closer to 50

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Buffalo716

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

My eyes and using my football knowledge.

 

He is not anywhere close to an elite backup, he has a negative TD to INT ratio throughout his career and doesn't give you any improv skills. He throws 3 routes well

 

So he is extremely limited

 

 

There are 64 QBs who are top 2 on Depth chart's. He isn't too 50

 

 

We'll just have to disagree.

[jrober38]

21 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson were both good straight away. Daniel Jones already looks great after two games. Cam Newton was good straight away. Lamar Jackson is good straight away.

Exactly the same thing was said about EJ Manuel. Because we want it so badly

 

Most guys who are currently considered established franchise QBs in the NFL right now were good as soon as they got on the field. 

[london_bills]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And Jackson has had tough games the last two.  Watson himself admitted he cost the Texans the game yesterday.  Newton had ups and downs; going into this season how many folks were talking about whether he was done.  Jones has played two games and I will guarantee he will have bad games this year.

 

Allen has a tough game yesterday.  He was bad.  He played pretty well the first three games of the year.  You claim we overestimate Allen because we want it so badly.  I would say we have too many around here that are hypercritical of a kid figuring it out while giving other guys on other teams passes when they do the same.

There can be an element of the grass is greener yes.

 

I would like to the see the potential of a strong 3 TD game at some point to take me away from the doubt of a 3 INT game. We haven't seen that yet.

 

I have seen good things but also remember the start of the jests game was scripted. The start of the half against the patriots was scripted.

 

Does he have the it factor? I'm not convinced, but I admit yesterday's game started to plant the seed of doubt. 

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

First he's not a rookie. Second he's still doing dumb stuff. Third he still does dumb stuff after his OC tells him not to do dumb stuff. Players get benched all the time. It's not the end of their careers. Especially when you make it clear why. If Allen can't handle that then he's the wrong guy.

 

Well they can start teaching him how to throw a ball away.

How does being benched teach someone how to throw the ball away when under duress? I think you bench Josh if he is disruptive or not putting in the effort needed to get better. I just don't see Josh as a player who needs the message a benching would provide. I think Josh understands the severity of the situation and the issue and I think he works hard to improve his processing. 

 

You need live rounds to learn how to actually make the decisions when under real game conditions. It is frustrating that he is making these bad decisions instead of throwing the ball away. But I just don't see the benefit of benching him providing that he clears the concussion protocol. 

 

I think that if he is hurt or borderline bench him to get him right into the bye week and I think you can win with Barkley managing the game against the Titans. However I don't think he or the team benefits from him being benched. 

 

I also think it is funny that people expect someone to improve almost instantly and with less playing time. Most QB's take time to develop and I think you have to let Josh take his lumps this season as long as he is consistently working to improve.