Have You Started To Lose Faith in Josh Allen?

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, billsy'est said:

@jrober38 should be banned straight up, and this dates back to the BBMB.

 

Let's break this down.

 

• In a (give or take) 200-page thread on the BBMB, where @jrober38 opined that Jay Cutler was better than any of the Bills' QBs and that they should trade a bunch of picks to bring Cutler into the fold.
• In a multiple-dozen thread, or three, about trading all of the Bills' picks for Jameis Winston, again on the BBMB.
• In a thread here, how many years ago, about trading all of the Bills' picks for... Carson Wentz.  Does Wentz seem so blue chip these days?  He does not.

It's not that one has a point of view.  It's that's one is a crusader.  For the longest time, in my last run here, I had thought that jeffismagic and @jrober38 were the same person.  Then I realized that they were different people.  Holy *****.  How can two #######s have this obsession with ruining a message board in exactly the same way.  It's not that they have differing opinions from me.  It's that, even if I ignore the heck out of them, the message board is ruined because they reply to everything

 

With the @jeffismagic rule, @jrober38 should be banned.  And when he returns as spursfan, he should be banned again, and with extreme prejudice.

 

 

I am for banning any Spurs fans from anything, believe me. But @jrober38 is as entitled to have a view on the Bills QB situation as anyone. Whether he normally gets it right or wrong.

Edited September 30, 2019 by GunnerBill

[Juice_32]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills would likely be 4-0 with any of those three, so yeah, I would.   At this point, and especially yesterday, Allen isn't a competent NFL QB.   The NFL isn't a pickup game in street in front of your house, but that seems to be what Allen keeps trying to play.

 

It is incomprehensible to me that you'd take Dalton, Cousins or Flacco over Allen right now. Talk about recency bias. Would you have made this insane claim after the Giants game? No chance.

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The team is 3 and 1.....Josh Allen had a LOT to do with that

 

Now....because we lost by 6 to a team that is just straight steam rolling every other team they face.....we ended up having a chance to win it in the end.....(lets not bring up that if we dont have a punt blocked for a touchdown and a missed field goal we WIN THE DAMN GAME

 

and the sky is falling here.....get a fricken grip people

 

Honestly, we beat them on the field, but lost on the scoreboard do to some internal mistakes.  Josh contributed to some of those mistakes, but he also led us down the field and got us a TD to be in position to win this game and we were driving before he got knocked out of the game.  

 

I do find it funny people are over reacting to Josh after he just played the defending champs, the single greatest defensive mind in history by a WIDE margin, a top defense, and with a personnel group that consists of 9 new players playing in only their 4th game together.  Not to mention, he is a 2nd year QB who has not even played a full season of starts yet.  

 

Most importantly, Daboll was VERY bad this week and something that has me concerned as he has been wildly inconsistent.  I have been a supporter of Daboll, but I am MUCH more concerned about him than Josh right now.  He just is not helping Josh out and we don't have the receivers to run what Daboll wants to keep doing all the time.  All first half I was screaming to get both Knox and Yeldon involved to give Josh some chances at easier throws and get some rhythm.  They finally did that in the 2nd half and drove the field for a TD.  Not rocket science.

 

For example:  On a key 3rd down play, we went EMPTY backfield with 4 receivers and a TE.  HOWEVER, on the left side there were TWO receivers...who do you think they were?  Freaking DiMarco and Gore!  WTF Daboll!!!!  And it wasn't like they started in the backfield and motioned over, thats where they originally lined up.  How the **** does it makes sense on a CLEAR passing play to put DiMarco and Gore out wide as his ONLY 2 receiving targets on the left side of the field?  It needs to be guys whose primary job is running routes and catching passes, worse yet, why not use YELDON out there for that who is by far the best receiving back on the team?  You got 4 players lined up as a Wide Receiver, it should consist of some combination of Brown, Cole, Zay, McKenzie, Roberts, Knox, Sweeney, and even Yeldon.  

 

Utterly stupid.  We all said BEFORE the ball is snapped, no way we convert this the moment we saw the formation...shocker we did not.  There were so many dumb things like this out there that made no sense that I think Daboll is trying to be too cute and complicated at times for his own good.  Put your best route runners and hands out there on a passing play on 3rd down, not DiMarco and Gore out wide as Wide Receivers.  

 

Yes, Josh made some mistakes and tried to do too much and trusted his arm too much that lead to bad mechanics and ill advised throws.  But he also isn't being put into great situation either with some of the personnel, schemes, and play calling during the game and his receivers struggled a lot to get open and give Allen early and easy targets frequently.

[Socal-805]

51 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Since QB rating is the only stat that you seem to look at let me find a few for you that Allen is doing well at...

 

4th in rating in the 4th quarter

7th on 3rd down completions for first downs

3rd in first downs per attempt on 3rd and long

13th in first downs per attempt on 3rd and medium

12th on first downs per attempt on 3rd and short

10th in completion % in the 4th quarter

12th in completion % inside the opponents 20 yard line

10th in rating inside the opponents 20 yard line

15th in rating inside the opponents 10 yard line

13th in rating in 4wr sets

10th in passing % in late and close games

 

Those are all good passing stats.  But yeah, he is the worst passer in the league because rating and you said so.  If the kid cuts down the turnovers he will go from "one of the worst passers in the league" to top 10-15.  All at 23 years old with 15 games experience.  Again, lets watch the whole season.  Not get crazy after a bad game against what could be NFLs best defense.

 

 

1ST in INTS.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Jared Goff threw for almost 4700 yards 32 TDs last year.  He improved drastically from years 1-2-3 etc.  

 

Against the strong bears defense he was 20-44 for 180 with 4 picks and 3 sacks.  

 

In the super bowl against NE he was 19-38 for 229 a pick and 4 sacks.  

 

Good defenses will force young QBs into mistakes.  The patriots have a good defense this year - they're fast at LB, have a solid pass rush, and a good secondary.  And a HOF coach who leads that defense.

[reddogblitz]

30 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Like every other inexperienced QB that plays against the Patriots.  Maybe you can find 1 or 2 exceptions, but the majority of 1st & 2nd year QBs end up looking like fools when matched up against a Belichick defense.  

 

In EJ's first game as a pro he faced the Patsies** and we almost won.  Lost by 23-21.  EJ was 18 for 27 for 150 and 2 TDs and ZERO picks.  If EJ had had Josh's D no doubt we would have won that game.

 

This was Josh's second game vs NE and he's not a rookie.

 

Sounds like you're making excuses.

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Jared Goff threw for almost 4700 yards 32 TDs last year.  He improved drastically from years 1-2-3 etc.  

 

Against the strong bears defense he was 20-44 for 180 with 4 picks and 3 sacks.  

 

In the super bowl against NE he was 19-38 for 229 a pick and 4 sacks.  

 

Good defenses will force young QBs into mistakes.  The patriots have a good defense this year - they're fast at LB, have a solid pass rush, and a good secondary.  And a HOF coach who leads that defense.

 

This is all true, it just felt like all the interceptions were unforced errors. 

 

On the 1st and 2nd interceptions he had plenty of time to throw and the coverages were obvious. 

 

It's not like the Pats baited him into anything. It was man coverage with a single high safety both times and he threw two bad passes when he didn't have to. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by jrober38

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

1ST in INTS.

 

 

I think I commented multiple times that he needs to cut down on the turnovers.  My post was to show some of the good that some people ignore, not the bad that is obvious.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

This is all true, it just felt like all the interceptions were unforced errors. 

 

On the 1st and 2nd interceptions he had plenty of time to throw and the coverages were obvious. 

 

It's not like the Pats baited him into anything. It was man coverage with a single high safety both times and he threw two bad passes. 

 

On both there were people open in front of him too.  I cant remember which, but on one the LB covering the LB fell over.... you can float that one over there for 20 yards in man coverage.  Just forcing the issue.

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Honestly, we beat them on the field, but lost on the scoreboard do to some internal mistakes.  Josh contributed to some of those mistakes, but he also led us down the field and got us a TD to be in position to win this game and we were driving before he got knocked out of the game.  

 

I do find it funny people are over reacting to Josh after he just played the defending champs, the single greatest defensive mind in history by a WIDE margin, a top defense, and with a personnel group that consists of 9 new players playing in only their 4th game together.  Not to mention, he is a 2nd year QB who has not even played a full season of starts yet.  

 

Most importantly, Daboll was VERY bad this week and something that has me concerned as he has been wildly inconsistent.  I have been a supporter of Daboll, but I am MUCH more concerned about him than Josh right now.  He just is not helping Josh out and we don't have the receivers to run what Daboll wants to keep doing all the time.  All first half I was screaming to get both Knox and Yeldon involved to give Josh some chances at easier throws and get some rhythm.  They finally did that in the 2nd half and drove the field for a TD.  Not rocket science.

 

For example:  On a key 3rd down play, we went EMPTY backfield with 4 receivers and a TE.  HOWEVER, on the left side there were TWO receivers...who do you think they were?  Freaking DiMarco and Gore!  WTF Daboll!!!!  And it wasn't like they started in the backfield and motioned over, thats where they originally lined up.  How the **** does it makes sense on a CLEAR passing play to put DiMarco and Gore out wide as his ONLY 2 receiving targets on the left side of the field?  It needs to be guys whose primary job is running routes and catching passes, worse yet, why not use YELDON out there for that who is by far the best receiving back on the team?  You got 4 players lined up as a Wide Receiver, it should consist of some combination of Brown, Cole, Zay, McKenzie, Roberts, Knox, Sweeney, and even Yeldon.  

 

Utterly stupid.  We all said BEFORE the ball is snapped, no way we convert this the moment we saw the formation...shocker we did not.  There were so many dumb things like this out there that made no sense that I think Daboll is trying to be too cute and complicated at times for his own good.  Put your best route runners and hands out there on a passing play on 3rd down, not DiMarco and Gore out wide as Wide Receivers.  

 

Yes, Josh made some mistakes and tried to do too much and trusted his arm too much that lead to bad mechanics and ill advised throws.  But he also isn't being put into great situation either with some of the personnel, schemes, and play calling during the game and his receivers struggled a lot to get open and give Allen early and easy targets frequently.

I told my son before the game and all through that first half that they needed tp go to the tight ends, particularly Knox, and Yeldon out of the backfield. It would have been a completely different game. On the bright side - what yesterday's game showed me is that this team doesn't even have to come close to playing perfect football to beat the Patriots. Offensively, they need to play better than they did, with fewer mistakes; however, with all the mistakes they made, the bad plays, and the bad play calling, they still could have won that game. I also believe they just might have done so if Allen could have finished the game.

 

A long way to go, but I like where this team is headed.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Honestly, we beat them on the field, but lost on the scoreboard do to some internal mistakes.  Josh contributed to some of those mistakes, but he also led us down the field and got us a TD to be in position to win this game and we were driving before he got knocked out of the game.  

 

I do find it funny people are over reacting to Josh after he just played the defending champs, the single greatest defensive mind in history by a WIDE margin, a top defense, and with a personnel group that consists of 9 new players playing in only their 4th game together.  Not to mention, he is a 2nd year QB who has not even played a full season of starts yet.  

 

Most importantly, Daboll was VERY bad this week and something that has me concerned as he has been wildly inconsistent.  I have been a supporter of Daboll, but I am MUCH more concerned about him than Josh right now.  He just is not helping Josh out and we don't have the receivers to run what Daboll wants to keep doing all the time.  All first half I was screaming to get both Knox and Yeldon involved to give Josh some chances at easier throws and get some rhythm.  They finally did that in the 2nd half and drove the field for a TD.  Not rocket science.

 

For example:  On a key 3rd down play, we went EMPTY backfield with 4 receivers and a TE.  HOWEVER, on the left side there were TWO receivers...who do you think they were?  Freaking DiMarco and Gore!  WTF Daboll!!!!  And it wasn't like they started in the backfield and motioned over, thats where they originally lined up.  How the **** does it makes sense on a CLEAR passing play to put DiMarco and Gore out wide as his ONLY 2 receiving targets on the left side of the field?  It needs to be guys whose primary job is running routes and catching passes, worse yet, why not use YELDON out there for that who is by far the best receiving back on the team?  You got 4 players lined up as a Wide Receiver, it should consist of some combination of Brown, Cole, Zay, McKenzie, Roberts, Knox, Sweeney, and even Yeldon.  

 

Utterly stupid.  We all said BEFORE the ball is snapped, no way we convert this the moment we saw the formation...shocker we did not.  There were so many dumb things like this out there that made no sense that I think Daboll is trying to be too cute and complicated at times for his own good.  Put your best route runners and hands out there on a passing play on 3rd down, not DiMarco and Gore out wide as Wide Receivers.  

 

Yes, Josh made some mistakes and tried to do too much and trusted his arm too much that lead to bad mechanics and ill advised throws.  But he also isn't being put into great situation either with some of the personnel, schemes, and play calling during the game and his receivers struggled a lot to get open and give Allen early and easy targets frequently.

 

Josh was terrible yesterday. There is no sugar coating it or excusing it. But you are right about Daboll. He did not call a good game. The 3rd down call on that 4 down series by the goalline was awful. Made no sense. I am not generally a guy who plays blame the OC.... but I thought Daboll had one of his worst nights with the Bills last night. 

[jrober38]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

On both there were people open in front of him too.  I cant remember which, but on one the LB covering the LB fell over.... you can float that one over there for 20 yards in man coverage.  Just forcing the issue.

 

Exactly. Neither throw should have been attempted. 

 

He needs to learn to take what the defense gives him, but we've been saying that for about a year now. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

In EJ's first game as a pro he faced the Patsies** and we almost won.  Lost by 23-21.  EJ was 18 for 27 for 150 and 2 TDs and ZERO picks.  If EJ had had Josh's D no doubt we would have won that game.

 

This was Josh's second game vs NE and he's not a rookie.

 

Sounds like you're making excuses.

 

That patriots defense finished 26th in yards, and 26th in first downs allowed and had a bottom 5 rush defense.  

 

They currently lead the league in fewest yards allowed, fewest first downs allowed, and have a top 5 rush defense in yards per attempt.

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

In EJ's first game as a pro he faced the Patsies** and we almost won.  Lost by 23-21.  EJ was 18 for 27 for 150 and 2 TDs and ZERO picks.  If EJ had had Josh's D no doubt we would have won that game.

 

This was Josh's second game vs NE and he's not a rookie.

 

Sounds like you're making excuses.

Different teams different games.  Doesn't matter.  Allen has had bad games. Allen has had good games. EJ has had bad games. EJ has had good games. I would take Allen all day over EJ.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Exactly. Neither throw should have been attempted. 

 

He needs to learn to take what the defense gives him, but we've been saying that for about a year now. 

 

4 int's in the last 2 games are really the killers.  Batted balls and weird deflections you can't control.  You can control throwing an in route to a wide open receiver instead of chucking it deep to john brown.  The throw was bad, the timing was worse... ball can't come out late and off your back foot.

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

That patriots defense finished 26th in yards, and 26th in first downs allowed and had a bottom 5 rush defense.  

 

They currently lead the league in fewest yards allowed, fewest first downs allowed, and have a top 5 rush defense in yards per attempt.

 

Was just responding to the assertion that Bill  Bellyache always makes young QBs look bad.  

[Juice_32]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This is all true, it just felt like all the interceptions were unforced errors. 

 

On the 1st and 2nd interceptions he had plenty of time to throw and the coverages were obvious. 

 

It's not like the Pats baited him into anything. It was man coverage with a single high safety both times and he threw two bad passes when he didn't have to. 

 

This is honestly why I'm not worried though. On the first 2 picks Allen had wide open receivers and he looked right at them. He just got greedy and went for the "wow throw" kill shot. In time they can coach that out of him. You worry when your guy isn't seeing the right play, on both picks Josh saw the underneath guy open, he just went for the home run. He's the anti-Trent Edwards. Give me Allen all day over a guy you have to beg to take chances.

[John from Riverside]

18 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

1ST in INTS.

 

 

You are absolutely fukin hopeless.....if Josh didnt have the turnovers and had low passing yards...that would be the thing you are bitching about

 

Take a lap

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Was just responding to the assertion that Bill  Bellyache always makes young QBs look bad.  

 

I honestly didn't remember the game.  30 rushes and almost 40 touches for the FJ/CJ combo.  

 

Looking at the play by play is awful though.  3rd and 1 with 9 minutes left and a 1 point lead... at our 49 yard line... we pass with a rookie QB and punt.  I just can't... 

 

We did get the ball back and 3 and outed... i just look at it like... 3rd and 1 in the 4th quarter?  I have to try and run for it... especially at midfield!

Edited September 30, 2019 by dneveu

[reddogblitz]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

I honestly didn't remember the game.  30 rushes and almost 40 touches for the FJ/CJ combo.  

 

Looking at the play by play is awful though.  3rd and 1 with 9 minutes left and a 1 point lead... at our 49 yard line... we pass with a rookie QB and punt.  I just can't... 

 

That football hit SJ in the hands past the sticks but he dropped it.  Coach Moron threw his visor and I knew SJ's days in Buffalo were numbered.