row_33 Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. you mean the Pats sat down and wrote the book on Allen’s weaknesses and exploited them?
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Posted September 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. I'm not trying to absolve Allen; all three throws were terrible decisions. But two of the three would have been nothing worse than an incompletion on 1st down if Zay shows any willingness to attack the ball. 3
Maine-iac Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I hope Daboll sees this and implements more of the quick, shorter passes. They came out in the third quarter running shorter patterns and had some success. They're not going to be able to exactly mimic NE's offense, but at least start to trend that way. Our o-line doesn't pass protect well enough for longer patterns nor is Allen accurate enough. I'm not entirely sure there weren't short passes there to be had. On several plays I've watched replays of there are short throws Allen is passing up to look deep and then either misses deep or holds the ball too long. 1
Virgil Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Simon said: I'm not trying to absolve Allen; all three throws were terrible decisions. But two of the three would have been nothing worse than an incompletion on 1st down if Zay shows any willingness to attack the ball. I haven’t gone back and watched them, but at the time and with replay, it was good catches by the Pats defenses and short of the receivers. I don’t think any of our guys could’ve prevented the INTs from happening
LABILLBACKER Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, VW82 said: Any observations on the first half fumble that we miraculously recovered? Edit: I'm going out on a limb that Zay won't be on the team next year. I say he doesn't see week 17....
Happy Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Maine-iac said: I'm not entirely sure there weren't short passes there to be had. On several plays I've watched replays of there are short throws Allen is passing up to look deep and then either misses deep or holds the ball too long. If Allen is still forsaking a higher probability shorter pass for the big gain, he hasn't learned from last year. I think Daboll tried drilling that into him, and Allen acknowledged this in the off season. Josh definitely holds the ball way too long when looking deep. 5
DuckyBoys Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: If Allen is still forsaking a higher probability shorter pass for the big gain, he hasn't learned from last year. I think Daboll tried drilling that into him, and Allen acknowledged this in the off season. Josh definitely holds the ball way too long when looking deep. We dont have a deep game Only guy that can get downfield is Brown and I'm not sure he is the same burner that was on the Cards. Allen needs better decision making and better targets. Can't they trade for someone? Zay Jones 18 targets 7 catches for 69 yards 1
Utah John Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 The picks were all Allen's fault. Terrible decisions. That's not to say Zay Jones is an NFL-caliber receiver. We're asking him to fill the shoes of Robert Woods, and his feet are much too small. 1
Big Blitz Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. Sounds like a team that had zero concern for our run game and letting the 6-7 guys in the box worry about Gore/Allen.
Happy Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said: We dont have a deep game Only guy that can get downfield is Brown and I'm not sure he is the same burner that was on the Cards. Allen needs better decision making and better targets. Can't they trade for someone? Zay Jones 18 targets 7 catches for 69 yards There is talk (on this board, anyway) about trading for AJ Green or Stephon Diggs. I would personally prefer Diggs, but who are we going to trade? Let's say Cincy or Minny needs a d-linemen or o-linemen, I'd trade Trent Murphy or Dion Dawkins in a heartbeat. Not sure that would fly with either team, though.
UB2SF Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: The LB covering the RB fell down on the second pick. If Allen was looking short instead of deep he could have hit the RB for a big gain. Absolutely right -- Yeldon had no one within 20 yards of him because of the LB falling down, and raised his hand so Josh could see him. Terrible decision to throw into double coverage instead.
Lurker Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Zay is not an intermediate to long receiver. Fixed that for you... 1 1
ShakAttack Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, UB2SF said: Absolutely right -- Yeldon had no one within 20 yards of him because of the LB falling down, and raised his hand so Josh could see him. Terrible decision to throw into double coverage instead. Say what you want about Barkley being a disadvantage next week, but he ain’t missing that one
KOKBILLS Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. It's never a good idea...?
WideNine Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: If Allen is still forsaking a higher probability shorter pass for the big gain, he hasn't learned from last year. I think Daboll tried drilling that into him, and Allen acknowledged this in the off season. Josh definitely holds the ball way too long when looking deep. Those scrambles and long passes into double coverage were not where Daboll wanted Josh to go with the ball. If they were, he would not have been yelling in Allen's face on the sideline and clearly saying use your head while tapping his head. Allen has to learn to take what the defense is giving him and if it ain't there toss it away. 1
GunnerBill Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, VW82 said: Any observations on the first half fumble that we miraculously recovered? Edit: I'm going out on a limb that Zay won't be on the team next year. Zay's status on the team should be a week to week question at this point 1
CSBill Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 I, like many, think Duke should be called up. But I also wonder why they have not put Andre Roberts on the field since he has returned. He was very productive in pre-season, and I would certainly take him over Zay Jones right now.
DCbillsfan Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. I am not saying any of the interceptions were not Josh's fault. But throwing to Zay is not a good strategy. He does not track the ball. He does not fight for the ball. He is not fleet of foot. It's just not a good idea and they do it over and over. Never throw the ball to Zay Jones is my vote. He is just bad. He rarely makes a positive play despite numerous opportunities.
Xwnyer Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 What amazed me is as well as Gore was running at times we never tried play action to try to get the D to bite on the run stop. Really struggling with edge rushers especially on right side of the line.
KW95 - JA17 Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, DCbillsfan said: Never throw the ball to Zay Jones is my vote. He is just bad. He rarely makes a positive play despite numerous opportunities. No one goes there, but ....Zay Should have been cut after the drop against the Panthers 2 years ago. And especially after seeing Jesus! Cheers
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