Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: You could argue that the first two picks on Josh weren't even that bad a decision (can't believe I'm doing this). Even with the coverage if Josh throws the first one 5 yards farther Brown was behind Gilmore. He was covered but he was behind Gilmore. Same thing with Zay if the pass was 5 yards further it's possibly a catch. So I'm on board with don't lose the gunslinger mentality. That said if you are going to be a gunslinger who is off by 5 yards on all your deep passes it's going to be a long day. Yup. The first one was bad decision. The second was just a bad pass. And Zay does nothing to go after the ball. Don't throw deep to Zay.
DuckyBoys Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 just dont throw to Zay period I think Allen needs to shelve the endless hardcount I think were losing on false starts vs the amount of times he's drawn a off sides by a very large margin Our guys obviously are too busy in the huddle to remember something so tough as what count to go on. Lee Smith seems to have a very difficult time grasping it
BillnutinHouston Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 13 hours ago, saundena said: I listened to his presser today. Curious to know which presser you listened to since he wasn't made available to the media yesterday due to the concussion.
Chuck Wagon Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 Personally I think we've got the Pats shook a bit. Staffers just happening to end up in the wrong place, their D clearly going for a cheap kill shot on our QB. They feel the footsteps hot and heavy and the end of Brady's career never looked closer than yesterday.
JohnC Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: There is no question he makes those mistakes. But he has 15 starts. And a huge portion of what he has done well is because he takes chances and he runs and he scrambles and he throws passes he has no business throwing or completing. It's all part of the package right now this early in his career. He's not like anyone else and he cannot be compared as such. His strengths are part of his weaknesses. It's only through experience that he is going to change the percentage. Hopefully, the takeaway for the young qb is that the first drive in the second half that lead to a score is the right way to approach the game. He needs to make it a mantra to take what is available and don't force it, especially against the best prepared team in the game. His hero ball mentality has to be limited. As you noted he is inexperienced and is still learning. But what was disturbing/disappointing about his play in this game was that his footwork and passing fundamentals were lacking for most of the game. Supposedly that was what he worked on all offseason. JA is a smart guy and a hard worker. This game should be a good learning tool for him in his growth process as a qb.
dave mcbride Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 9 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: That was what we all used to say in an earlier NFL. Not so long ago, like maybe the 1990s. That's not the way it goes anymore. We're in an NFL where the young franchise QBs make an immediate impression. Think about it: - Russell Wilson - Matt Ryan - Dak Prescott - Deshaun Watson - Carson Wentz - Cam Newton - Andy Dalton - Andrew Luck - Joe Flacco - Ben Roethlisberger - Baker Mayfield? Lamar Jackson? Daniel Jones?? Gardner Minshew??? And then look at the guys who sat for a year, then IMMEDIATELY showed complete mastery of the position: - Brady - Mahomes Expand it to "sat for 2 or 3 years, then as soon as he played showed IMMEDIATE mastery of the position," add: - Rodgers - Rivers - Garoppolo?? The category of QBs who struggled mightily at the start and needed to actually play a season or two (or more) before they find their feet is shrinking every year. In fact, looking at NFL starters now, I guess you could say perhaps Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota are finally getting it, or that Jared Goff finally got it last year, or that Derek Carr got it after one full season. But those guys aren't in the same class as the guys who "got it" right away. You may have to go back to Drew Brees to find a future elite QB who struggled early on (or Peyton Manning before that). And back in the Manning-Brees era, that was the way it went - you suffered through your QBs growing pains and then he emerged as the real deal after a couple years. (Marino was the great exception.) In other words, you know it when you see it, and nowadays you tend to see "it" right away. And I ain't seein' it yet with Josh, or Darnold or Rosen for that matter. Goff weas really good in his second season.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Bangarang said: I was at the game today and was watching the QBs warm up pregame. One thing I noticed was Allen was lackadaisical when throwing to receivers. Barkley was taking snaps from a coach and actually dropping back simulating game speed and stepping into throws whereas Allen took the snap, stood there and threw passes flat footed. It just looked lazy. I am not surprised to hear this - I can often tell pre-game whether a QB is dialed in. Rob Johnson used to have a “lost at sea” look in his eyes during pregame warmups and it carried over to the games. I’ll keep saying it: as talented as Josh Allen is, he needs to grow up if he’s going to take the next step. 1
chaccof Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Mark Vader said: No mention of the offensive line's pass protection today? The what? The pass protection? What pass protection? 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 @billsredneck1, just checking in on you, buddy. Were you able to find that highlight of Jauron going for it twice in one game on fourth and goal?
Virgil Posted September 30, 2019 Author Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, chaccof said: The what? The pass protection? What pass protection? credit their defensive blitz scheme. They’ve been prolific
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 20 hours ago, Virgil said: Again, I don’t care if he had more 3 and outs and they punted. It’s the short field position that gave them a TD and field goal. You just can’t make these mistakes and it seems to be getting worse. Also, add in the sack that knocked us back 5 yards with the ensuing missed FG, and it’s another play that hurts us. The way we were punting int's on deep balls may have given us better field position! After yesterdays game wonder if they are trying out punters as we speak. Last two weeks Bojo's regressed. I think the sacks also hurt alot as one time took us out of field goal range and other time on the miss made it 5 yards longer. On the other hand if we had made both of those field goals, likely would have also kicked the one where we went for it on 4th down, plus on next to last drive would have kicked. Belichick is known to do something to confuse the opposing offense, make me wonder if there was something he kept doing to confuse Allen to make him think he had the long ball wide open. The question to me does Allen finally learn from this and realize what worked in Wyoming isn't going to work here. He is still young, only played 2 years of college and not at the highest level competition wise, and he can certainly make the throws that very few others can. Overall too the team is still weak offensively both at WR and O-line, think the interior of the line os good assuming they do move Ford in there, but at least one of not two tackle positions are shaky. Could also use either a true #1 WR from the draft or sign another strong #2 like Brown.
Thunderstruck Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 21 hours ago, Virgil said: 4 - “I know if I am going to have any life anymore it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch because that is what living is. The six inches in front of your face.” I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of thing, so I am going to have to take your word for it. 1
Shaw66 Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 21 hours ago, Virgil said: Talk about an emotional day. You could see it on the field, on TSW, on social media. This game felt like a mini-series with plot twists, theme changes, and was just an overall rollercoaster. To be clear, there is absolutely no way I can cover everything that happened in this game and I’m just going to cover the big things that stood out to me. 7 - Daboll - This is hard for me because I’m not an Xs and Os guy. It seems like the Pats ran the same defense they ran all season and what they did against us last year. With that, it seems like we were completely unprepared for them today. It’s not just getting shut down, it’s the way we were shut down. We looked confused. Also, where was McKenzie in this game and all the stretch/sweeps we’ve been running? Then, we score via hurry up and then abandon it on the next drive. The trick play was nice, and I don’t blame Yeldon there as it wasn’t an easy catch. Overall, Daboll needs to be better in this game -How was that not intentional grounding by Brady? Nice post, as usual. I want to make a couple of comments. First, people know I write a column, too. I travel to the games, so my post on the game isn't written until Monday morning. I make it a point to write without looking at any of the posts here, or any articles or columns anywhere, really, so the thoughts are mine. Still, somehow, for the second week in a row, Virgil and I have been saying the same things. I don't recall exactly what it was last week, but a major theme in my column was the same there as Virgil's. This week, it was what an emotional game it was. If anyone noticed, it was in both cases, great minds thinking alike! Daboll - I can't say I studied the game plan, but I would guess the plan wasn't as bad as you think. McDermott sounded like he was very disappointed in Allen, and not just because of the INTs. He commented about how things went fine in the third quarter when he just did what he was taught to do. So I would guess that what we saw was less of a problem with Daboll and more of a problem with Allen failing to execute the way he was supposed to. The Pats were allowing 200 yards per game allowed before they came to Buffalo, and they coughed up 375 to the Bills. So I'd guess Daboll's plan wasn't too shabby. The Bills were allowing 300 yards per game and gave up 225 to the Pats. Is anyone saying the Pats had a bad game plan? I think it's more about two really good defenses and offenses trying to figure any way at all to put together consistent drives. I thought there were two other plays where intentional grounding should have been called. Let's be realistic. It's become the custom in the league to allow QBs to throw the ball at the feet of a screen pass receiver when the QB decides the play is busted. It's obviously grounding, but it's not called. Okay, I get that, although the league could just say "tough, the guy's not open, throw it someplace else. Get out of the tackle box and throw it past the line of scrimmage." But that's not how it's called. I get it. But what Brady is doing is something new. He is very obviously intentionally throwing the ball away in the field of play and claiming it's okay because there was a receiver "in the vicinity." Well, the point of the rule is that you're supposed to be trying to make a play, and Brady obviously is not. This is the most accurate passer perhaps in the history of the league throwing the ball ten yards down the field and missing his receiver by ten yards. Did you ever see him miss a short throw by ten yards and throw it into a cluster of defenders? No. The only time he misses by ten yards, he's throwing to grass. It's a clear violation of the rule, and the league has to start calling it. I don't know if there are any other NFL QBs doing that. Way over the head of the receiver and out of bounds on the sideline, okay. But throwing the ball to the middle field where no one is there is only permitted when the QB is outside the tackle box. It's another one of the smart way the Pats take advantage of interpretations of the rules. I think they're breaking the rule and the refs are smart enough or don't have the guts to call it. They will push the interpretation until someone calls them on it. I suspect the officials will be discussing this play this week. 1
Virgil Posted September 30, 2019 Author Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Nice post, as usual. I want to make a couple of comments. First, people know I write a column, too. I travel to the games, so my post on the game isn't written until Monday morning. I make it a point to write without looking at any of the posts here, or any articles or columns anywhere, really, so the thoughts are mine. Still, somehow, for the second week in a row, Virgil and I have been saying the same things. I don't recall exactly what it was last week, but a major theme in my column was the same there as Virgil's. This week, it was what an emotional game it was. If anyone noticed, it was in both cases, great minds thinking alike! Daboll - I can't say I studied the game plan, but I would guess the plan wasn't as bad as you think. McDermott sounded like he was very disappointed in Allen, and not just because of the INTs. He commented about how things went fine in the third quarter when he just did what he was taught to do. So I would guess that what we saw was less of a problem with Daboll and more of a problem with Allen failing to execute the way he was supposed to. The Pats were allowing 200 yards per game allowed before they came to Buffalo, and they coughed up 375 to the Bills. So I'd guess Daboll's plan wasn't too shabby. The Bills were allowing 300 yards per game and gave up 225 to the Pats. Is anyone saying the Pats had a bad game plan? I think it's more about two really good defenses and offenses trying to figure any way at all to put together consistent drives. I thought there were two other plays where intentional grounding should have been called. Let's be realistic. It's become the custom in the league to allow QBs to throw the ball at the feet of a screen pass receiver when the QB decides the play is busted. It's obviously grounding, but it's not called. Okay, I get that, although the league could just say "tough, the guy's not open, throw it someplace else. Get out of the tackle box and throw it past the line of scrimmage." But that's not how it's called. I get it. But what Brady is doing is something new. He is very obviously intentionally throwing the ball away in the field of play and claiming it's okay because there was a receiver "in the vicinity." Well, the point of the rule is that you're supposed to be trying to make a play, and Brady obviously is not. This is the most accurate passer perhaps in the history of the league throwing the ball ten yards down the field and missing his receiver by ten yards. Did you ever see him miss a short throw by ten yards and throw it into a cluster of defenders? No. The only time he misses by ten yards, he's throwing to grass. It's a clear violation of the rule, and the league has to start calling it. I don't know if there are any other NFL QBs doing that. Way over the head of the receiver and out of bounds on the sideline, okay. But throwing the ball to the middle field where no one is there is only permitted when the QB is outside the tackle box. It's another one of the smart way the Pats take advantage of interpretations of the rules. I think they're breaking the rule and the refs are smart enough or don't have the guts to call it. They will push the interpretation until someone calls them on it. I suspect the officials will be discussing this play this week. Brady’s been doing this for years and they’ve never called it. I don’t think they want to mess with “intent” on penalties. But more likely, not mess with Kraft
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, Virgil said: Brady’s been doing this for years and they’ve never called it. I don’t think they want to mess with “intent” on penalties. But more likely, not mess with Kraft True. The funny thing is, of course, earlier in the game, after the play was over they decided to call an intentional grounding when it wasn't originally thrown. And then later, when it is a worse example, they don't call it.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 If John Brown switches the ball to his other (sideline-facing) hand, he’s in position to stiff-arm Gilmore and probably scores. Fundamentals like that - and like noticing the uncovered gunner - separate well-coached teams from poorly-coached ones.
Shaw66 Posted September 30, 2019 Posted September 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, Virgil said: Brady’s been doing this for years and they’ve never called it. I don’t think they want to mess with “intent” on penalties. But more likely, not mess with Kraft I don't recall Brady doing this. One reason I think it's new is that no one else does it. Everyone has learned how to ground it on the screen pass, and they all do it. If Brady had been doing this for years, others would have copied it by now. Maybe I'm wrong.
chaccof Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 19 hours ago, Virgil said: credit their defensive blitz scheme. They’ve been prolific No doubt a great scheme - however, I would have expected that the OL was prepared for that based on film work and while I only listened to the game not watched it, it sure sounded like the OL was getting dominated.
Solomon Grundy Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 On that last play was that pass rusher supposed to be picked up by Nsekhe or Yeldon?
cd1 Posted October 1, 2019 Posted October 1, 2019 On 9/29/2019 at 6:23 PM, whatdrought said: Allen played dumb and scared (minus the time he probably should have been scared) all day which cost us big time. That being said, the offensive line can’t be let off the hook. They need to play better. Also, I’m not sure I love the offensive play calling... not sure if Allen was taking those shots on his own, or if the calls encouraged it, but the profecient Beasley attack was curiously missing. I have been wondering if one of our problems was that Belicheat was in Daboll's head. The game Sunday seemed to totally deviate from the effective play calling in the first 3 games. Daboll may have put additional "bogymen" in Josh's head. Just a thought...
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