njbuff Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Allen is 15-10 as a starter in the NFL at the grand old age of 23............. working with NINE new starters on offense......... coming from a college where he had to carry the state of Wyoming on his back (this isn’t E.J. Manuel where he had talent galore around him).... Allen receivers have been at or near the top of the highest drop rate in the NFL............ was supposed to be redshirted as a rookie.......... has either had bad or inconsistent OL’s since being here (even though the line is getting better and has really good potential)......... Shall I go on? We ALL KNOW that Allen needs work and is hardly a finished product, but if you don’t see the finish line with Allen, I don’t know what to tell you. By the way, how is the chosen one Baker Mayfield doing with all that world class around him as compared to Allen? Edited December 18, 2019 by njbuff 1 1
GoBills808 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 32 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: The NextGenStats for separation and expected completion percentage do not support any of these opinions. How about that Brown in Baltimore with Lamar vs Brown in Buffalo with Allen comparison? Or even direct comparison: Allen vs Jackson against Pitt defense?
billsfan1959 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, H2o said: jrober38 carrying that Josh Allen hatred flag with pride Amen, brother. I have no idea why people continue to fuel his trolling.... Edited December 18, 2019 by billsfan1959 1
Sundancer Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Does Allen deserve credit for the 5 games the Bills won where he led a game winning drive in the 4th quarter? No. Also no credit for his 27 TDs. 4
billsfan1959 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Does Allen deserve credit for the 5 games the Bills won where he led a game winning drive in the 4th quarter? Of course he doesn't. Haven't you been paying attention? If Allen hadn't been such an awful QB in those games, the team wouldn't have been in a position to need game winning drives. The fact that he actually came through on all those game winning drives is irrelevant... So I'm told.... 2
TheCockSportif Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I have no idea why people continue to fuel his trolling.... Because internet. I guess?
Augie Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Does Allen deserve credit for the 5 games the Bills won where he led a game winning drive in the 4th quarter? I do in fact think he is worthy of some benefit there! He might have had another if not for a dirty hit at the end of the Cheaters* game. EDIT: BTW, I hope the league does something to close that loophole in the offseason. A dirty head shot like Josh took at the end of that game should not be equally offset by something minor like an illegal formation. I haven’t given it much thought and don’t have an answer, but there MUST be a better way to handle that. Edited December 18, 2019 by Augie 1
Numark3 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Augie said: I do in fact think he is worthy of some benefit there! He might have had another if not for a dirty hit at the end of the Cheaters* game. and another if the D held on in Cleveland after he led them down on a game winning drive....or if our kicker made a FG after he lead them on a second last/minute drive. 1
Augie Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Crayola64 said: and another if the D held on in Cleveland after he led them down on a game winning drive....or if our kicker made a FG after he lead them on a second last/minute drive. Josh is far from perfect or a finished product, but he’s got something you absolutely want in your QB: he does NOT shrink in the big moments. In fact, that’s where he thrives, and you have to love that! Now, if he could just clean up the other stuff..... 1
JohninMinn. Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 There was a baseball player named Chuck Knoblauch who played 2nd base for the Twins and Yankees. There was a point in his career where he could not make a simple throw to first base. Total mental block. He threw in the general direction and hoped. I think that's where Josh's head is at on the deep ball. A deep ball is a bomb with air under it ,not the laser deeps he hits with Brown coming back to the ball. Needs intensive therapy.
Scott7975 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 6 hours ago, jrober38 said: Four people just said they wouldn't trade Josh Allen for the NFL MVP. Complete insanity. Make that 5. I would not either. Roman has made all his QBs look decent to great running the same *****. They get figured out eventually. Then what does Lamar have if he can't read one guy on defense and throw to busted coverage anymore? Look, maybe Lamar will be great forever. You are already calling him elite. People did the same ***** for Kaepernick. It's one year and means nothing thus far. Allen, imo, will end up being the better pocket passer over the long hall. He is being trained that way. Lamar is being trained to read one guy. That doesn't have much longevity in the NFL. He would not do well here because our team wouldn't have built for that. They have barely built for Allen.
transplantbillsfan Posted December 18, 2019 Author Posted December 18, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 10:24 AM, VW82 said: Here's the thing: I think many of the narratives surrounding Josh have been correct. He was extremely raw coming into the league, and too raw to win with last year. He did have a tendency to make poor throws at a rate well above other QBs. You're saying 1 out of 25. Last year it was 1 in 4 according to pro football reference. The next closest guy was Rosen at 1 in 5. Average was around 16-17%. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/passing_advanced.htm I disagree. I watched every single pass of Allen after the season was over along with every single pass made in the rookie seasons of Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Wentz, and Watson. Josh was no less accurate on the whole than any of those other rookies after tracking all those passes. On 12/17/2019 at 10:24 AM, VW82 said: He frequently takes too long to read a defense. Collinsworth said he's last in the league in time to throw. Some sites have him bottom 10 depending on how they account for things like sacks and throwaways. This, right here, is Allen's BIGGEST problem. And it was his rookie year, as well. It's not accuracy. It's making the right reads and processing time. That was his biggest weakness his rookie year. He drastically improved in that over the offseason, but he still has plenty of room to grow. On 12/17/2019 at 10:24 AM, VW82 said: He is improving. The national media types for the most part are acknowledging this. They're saying the same stuff you're saying e.g. 4th quarter comebacks, GWDs, timely throws, makes plays with his feet, etc. I feel like some posters on here bend over backwards to find the most negative view that still exists and latch onto that in some kind of weird inferiority complex. IMO very few NFL media, fans, etc., still think he outright sucks. They think he's about what the numbers say he is: a second year player who's getting better but not quite there yet, clutch player, someone you can win with on the right team, etc. As for the SNF broadcast, I thought they called the game based on the way it was played. Josh was unfortunately a little inaccurate on some throws (some more than others) and our receivers did everything they could to make those throws look worse than they were. Why are we expecting Michaels and Collinsworth to gush about 139 yards passing, a pick, drops, and some sloppy ball protection? Josh is a second year player who's still figuring it out. He hasn't earned that praise yet. You mention Mahomes. That guy won MVP. He gets the accolades because his team wins games of the back of his huge production. We win games in large part because of the strength of our defense, and so that's what they focused on. Josh was wildly inaccurate on a single throw and Collinsworth literally pointed to it in the broadcast in something like a "see, this is what I'm talking about" moment. It was a little ridiculous. He gushed over the defense, especially Edmunds, which I thought was weird because up until the last few games, Edmunds has been a little underwhelming. I mean, it was hilarious because they actually replayed a play where Edmunds made a tackle and were raving about him on a play where he allowed a guy to get a 1st down. Maybe they do their HW for our next SNF game, but I was really disappointed in the broadcast. 23 hours ago, jrober38 said: Wins are a team stat. I like that the Bills are winning. I think our QB has contributed very little to us winning that most NFL QBs couldn't replicate or improve upon. I think there are at least 20 NFL QBs who would have allowed this team to go at least 10-4 so far. Again, you're wrong. Allen is tied for the league lead with Russell Wilson in 4th Quarter Comebacks this year (4) and Game Winning Drives (5)
transplantbillsfan Posted December 18, 2019 Author Posted December 18, 2019 23 hours ago, jrober38 said: Yes. There are at least 20 QBs in the NFL right now who would be leading this offense to the same or better productivity than Allen has done so far. Again, you're wrong.
Scott7975 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 6 hours ago, jrober38 said: That's one investment strategy. Another is to take the sure thing and bank the dividends every year. Do you think the Ravens would have 12 guys in the Pro Bowl if they weren't 12-2 and the leading scoring offense in the NFL? Do you think Lamar made all 12 of those guys? If so then you are the loonie around here. 6 hours ago, jrober38 said: I disagree. I think Brown is a very good receiver and Beasley is fine in the slot. Brown is way better than anything the Ravens have. The Ravens let him walk why? Probably because he doesn't fit what they are trying to do there.
transplantbillsfan Posted December 18, 2019 Author Posted December 18, 2019 22 hours ago, jrober38 said: I think the following QBs would all have equalled or out produced the points production we've produced this year in our offense with this defense and special teams supporting them. I think we'd be 10-4 if you swapped any of them with Allen into this 53 man roster. Jackson, Brees, Watson, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Garoppolo, Cousins, Prescott, Ryan, Stafford, Brady, Tannehill, Wentz, Murray, Roethlisberger, Brissett, Mayfield, Bridgewater, Rivers. I think Daniel Jones, Darnold and Jameis Winston (his turnovers wouldn't matter because our defense is so good) would all be close. What an absolute joke. With the Bills OC, OL, WRs, TEs and RBs you think all those QBs would be able to mimic what Allen did this year? SOOOOOOOOOO many QBs we could pick apart as to why they would almost certainly not be able to operate under the circumstances of the Buffalo offense (Cousins , Prescott , Ryan , Tannehill , Brissett , Mayfield , Rivers , Jones , Winston ) that it's just so friggin ridiculous to go through. Are you seriously this lost? Seriously? Put those dome guys like Cousins and Prescott and Brissett (pfft!!!!) on Buffalo and see how they do. Put those statues like Ryan and Rivers on Buffalo and see how they do behind this OL. Give any of those guys Buffalo's WR corps and TEs and see how they do. My dear lord. Some of those guys you listed could very well be better, but you're just delusional at this point. Or trolling... 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, VW82 said: Arguing that Lamar would be nothing without Roman or Baltimore's play makers, line, etc., is just dumb. Was Michael Vick just a product of Atlanta's system too? Guys on that level are special enough that they're going to find a way in most places unless you're actively trying to undermine them by putting them in a system that prioritizes their weaknesses. We're not doing that for Josh. Why would we do that for Lamar? Who is arguing that Lamar would be “nothing”? The point has been made that 1) he likely would not be having his current level of league-on-fire success without them and 2) if he were being asked to operate in the offense Allen is being asked to operate in, with the same tools, he might not be having even as good success as Allen is (I happen to think he would not). He would still be a very promising young QB, but a lot of what he is achieving is helped by having the tools he has - the big zip-code-radius TE who can also pancake block, the 1-2 punch at RB, etc etc. I wouldn’t say we’re putting Allen in a system that *prioritizes* his weaknesses, but we are asking him to operate in an offensive system that represents a, how to put it - “growth opportunity” for him, he has limited tools, and we’ve been slow to introduce plays that work to his best strengths. 1
Scott7975 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, jrober38 said: Why do you think his receivers are wide open? Daboll schemes guys open. Sometimes they drop it. Sometimes Allen misses them by 5 or more yards. His guys are wide open because they are too worried about Jackson taking off with the football on top of the excellent run game they already have even without him. That moves defenders out of the way. Daboll schemes guys that get open by a step. Around the league guys are in busted freaking coverage. Half of Jacksons yards against the Bills happened on ONE play because of busted coverage. That happens all game for him by weaker defenses that cant pull off the what we can. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted December 18, 2019 Author Posted December 18, 2019 8 hours ago, jrober38 said: This is maybe the dumbest thing I've read on this board in a long time. It is a perfect example of the rampant homerism some people have on this board when defending Josh Allen. To suggest that Lamar Jackson, the front runner for MVP, wouldn't be able to replicate what Josh Allen, who is in the bottom 10 of most QB stat categories, is beyond absurd. Your reasoning seriously just utterly lack context? Do you think, honestly, that Jackson would be doing what he's doing outside of Roman's offense? Without Mark Ingram? Without his OL which consists of 2 pro bowlers? Without a Head Coach who has absolutely invested in him? Lamar Jackson is fantastic this year, but put him on Buffalo and I would say it's absolute stupidity to believe he would come even close to replicating what he's doing in Baltimore with this OC and these weapons. The reason no one can have a reasonable conversation with you regarding this subject is because you clearly believe any QB play is an apples to apples comparison from one team and one offense to another. It's baffling and head scratching that you're still here even arguing this. Isn't there a Patriots message board where you can go cheer for your team or something? 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said: If I were Jackson, given his style, I would hold out in the off season for a big deal. His style is going to get him hurt, 100% injury rate in the NFL, his style magnifies it. I’m pretty sure that there are strict limitations under the CBA on when a team can offer a rookie an improved deal, and how much of an improvement it can be.
Scott7975 Posted December 18, 2019 Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, jrober38 said: How tall are the Ravens top receivers? Hint: they're the same size as our guys. Poor take. They let Brown walk in March when free agency opened. They draft was roughly two months later. Letting Brown, or any free agent, walk was a business decision. It's not like they just swapped players. A lot had to happen for Marquise Brown to wind up their draft pick. 5'9", 5'11", 6'2" 5'8", 5'11", 5'8" 1
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