Josh Allen 2019 Regular Season at 58.8% Completion Percentage

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Agree entirely. What he also has in Lamar, unlike in Kaep and Taylor, is a QB who is NOT risk averse in the passing game. Granted, they haven’t had to rely on their pass game very much, but Jackson has shown he’s not afraid to chuck it and make a play. 
 

But like Kaep in SF, I’m not sure it’s a sustainable system. DCs will again make it a point to ignore the “mesh point” or “pitch” confusion and instruct their DLs and LBs to hit Jackson, regardless. It will take a toll eventually. It’s inevitable when your QB is taking an inordinate number of risks as a running back. 

Yes which follows my theory of Harbaugh/Roman simply using Jackson up on his rookie deal running that offense...if I was his agent I would be bolstering my claim to a long term deal NOW

[VW82]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's more than likely true. We don't run Roman's read option and we don't have the oline for it. We don't have the TEs with pass catching ability. We don't have big wideouts blocking downfield. We don't have a hammer like Ingram/Edwards.

 

Jackson has over 2 game's worth of fewer pass attempts than Allen currently. He throws the ball at one of the lowest rates in the league. He's also got more rush attempts than some starting RBs. He is in a very, VERY particular offense in Baltimore and in all likelihood would be less successful than other QBs running more traditional schemes.

 

 

 

You make some good points but ultimately I disagree. We don't run a traditional scheme either. We run our fair share read option and RPO though not as much as Ravens. We scheme to get Allen out of the pocket as much as possible because he's way more effective there, just like Lamar. 

 

You're assuming that 1. our running game wouldn't look much better with Lamar in place of Allen, and 2. that Lamar would flounder with an increase in passing attempts. I don't think either of those assumptions are fair. 

[whatdrought]

10 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

It's been said several times in this thread, including by a mod, that Jackson wouldn't be anywhere close to what Allen is in Buffalo. "Nothing" is perhaps overstating it but so is what was actually said. 

 

Allen, while not perfect, has sat back in the pocket, gone through a complete progression of reads, and hit open receivers at the boundary. These are all things that Lamar is not asked to do on the regular, and does not do well when he is asked to do them. That's what is being stated. Lamar is not playing the same kind of football and while Josh is growing through his shortcomings, Lamar is simply ignoring/mitigating his by playing differently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach, and it's working so well that I'm not one to say it can't continue that way. But if you were to put Lamar in the offense that Josh is running it would be a very different Lamar situation.  

[jrober38]

I don't get the need to tear down our entire team to build one guy up into something he isn't.

 

In this thread alone, our elite defense has been down played, our receivers have been described as some of the worst in the NFL, our tight ends have been described as useless players who can't catch, our line has been down played. 

 

Additionally, the soon to be MVP has been described by numerous people as a one trick pony who wouldn't be able to produce 21 ppg in our offense. As a rookie, he led the Ravens to over 29 points per game in his six games as the starter, but some how he wouldn't be able to come close 21 points if he played here. 

 

It's all so bizarre. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

 

You make some good points but ultimately I disagree. We don't run a traditional scheme either. We run our fair share read option and RPO though not as much as Ravens. We scheme to get Allen out of the pocket as much as possible because he's way more effective there, just like Lamar. 

 

You're assuming that 1. our running game wouldn't look much better with Lamar in place of Allen, and 2. that Lamar would flounder with an increase in passing attempts. I don't think either of those assumptions are fair. 

We certainly do NOT scheme Allen out of the pocket as much as possible. They are actually trying to turn him into a pocket passer...have you not noticed how much presnap responsibility he has assumed this yr? 

 

And the assumption that Jackson would flounder w an increase in pass attempts is a pretty safe one imo. He is not a good passer of the football; in Romans scheme right now he is an efficient one. Big difference.

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Agree entirely. What he also has in Lamar, unlike in Kaep and Taylor, is a QB who is NOT risk averse in the passing game. Granted, they haven’t had to rely on their pass game very much, but Jackson has shown he’s not afraid to chuck it and make a play. 
 

But like Kaep in SF, I’m not sure it’s a sustainable system. DCs will again make it a point to ignore the “mesh point” or “pitch” confusion and instruct their DLs and LBs to hit Jackson, regardless. It will take a toll eventually. It’s inevitable when your QB is taking an inordinate number of risks as a running back. 

 Not saying you are comparing them here, but Allen has missed more games than Jackson.  Jackson hasn’t missed a game yet but I do understand the running makes it riskier.  
 

for both Allen and Jackson to be long term answers, they both need to less reliant on running. Russell Wilson has done a great job of that.

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

I don't get the need to tear down our entire team to build one guy up into something he isn't.

 

In this thread alone, our elite defense has been down played, our receivers have been described as some of the worst in the NFL, our tight ends have been described as useless players who can't catch, our line has been down played. 

 

Additionally, the soon to be MVP has been described by numerous people as a one trick pony who wouldn't be able to produce 21 ppg in our offense. As a rookie, he led the Ravens to over 29 points per game in his six games as the starter, but some how he wouldn't be able to come close 21 points if he played here. 

 

It's all so bizarre. 

 

When it doubt and cornered by good arguments, crack open a nice cold straw man, kick your feet back and get busy movin them goal posts. #trollcode

[jrober38]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

We certainly do NOT scheme Allen out of the pocket as much as possible. They are actually trying to turn him into a pocket passer...have you not noticed how much presnap responsibility he has assumed this yr? 

 

And the assumption that Jackson would flounder w an increase in pass attempts is a pretty safe one imo. He is not a good passer of the football; in Romans scheme right now he is an efficient one. Big difference.

 

I'm sorry but Josh Allen isn't a good passer of the football.

 

32nd in completion percentage, 25th in YPA, 23rd in QB Rating, 28th in QBR, 28th in DYAR, 28th in DVAO. 

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

When it doubt and cornered by good arguments, crack open a nice cold straw man, kick your feet back and get busy movin them goal posts. #trollcode

 

The goal posts haven't been moved.

 

All of these things have been repeated throughout this thread. 

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

You make some good points but ultimately I disagree. We don't run a traditional scheme either. We run our fair share read option and RPO though not as much as Ravens. We scheme to get Allen out of the pocket as much as possible because he's way more effective there, just like Lamar. 

 

You're assuming that 1. our running game wouldn't look much better with Lamar in place of Allen, and 2. that Lamar would flounder with an increase in passing attempts. I don't think either of those assumptions are fair. 

That may be true, but there is little to no similarity in the blocking schemes employed and that makes all the difference. As I mentioned previously, Roman uses BOTH zone concepts as well as man concepts during the course of a series and game. Other teams, like us for instance, simply don’t do that because of the sheer physical traits required in an O lineman to do so effectively on a play by play basis. That might be the most confusing challenge Roman offers up to a defense, too. 

[H2o]

jrober38 carrying that Josh Allen hatred flag with pride 

[whatdrought]

11 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

The goal posts haven't been moved.

 

All of these things have been repeated throughout this thread. 

 

Yes. They have. Nobody is tearing down our team. We're saying that compared to the SB favorites, we have less talent on offense. Between that and the fact that the offensive scheme is completely different, Lamar would play very differently here. 

 

It's facts. You're too stuck in your pre-draft bias to see it, and you're outnumbered 8000 to 1. Even the people who are sorta agreeing with some of your points are hedging themselves and not buying all in on your Allen hate because it's deranged. So my question is this... How did Allen hurt you? Did you have a puppy that he accidentally ran over? Did you catch him kissing your mom under the mistletoe? Did he steal your lunch money in third grade? It's okay... You can recover from whatever it is. It starts by not being a troll. That's the first step to recovery. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

Yes. They have. Nobody is tearing down our team. We're saying that compared to the SB favorites, we have less talent on offense. Between that and the fact that the offensive scheme is completely different, Lamar would play very differently here. 

 

It's facts. You're too stuck in your pre-draft bias to see it, and you're outnumbered 8000 to 1. Even the people who are sorta agreeing with some of your points are hedging themselves and not buying all in on your Allen hate because it's deranged. So my question is this... How did Allen hurt you? Did you have a puppy that he accidentally ran over? Did you catch him kissing your mom under the mistletoe? Did he steal your lunch money in third grade? It's okay... You can recover from whatever it is. It starts by not being a troll. That's the first step to recovery. 

 

You clearly don't understand what the word "fact" means. You keep confusing facts with your personal opinions. 

 

The Bills are 10-4 and have clinched a playoff spot in week 15. The only reason we're not considered Super Bowl contenders because our offense is so poor. 

[LB3]

22 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

I don't get the need to tear down our entire team to build one guy up into something he isn't.

 

In this thread alone, our elite defense has been down played, our receivers have been described as some of the worst in the NFL, our tight ends have been described as useless players who can't catch, our line has been down played. 

 

Additionally, the soon to be MVP has been described by numerous people as a one trick pony who wouldn't be able to produce 21 ppg in our offense. As a rookie, he led the Ravens to over 29 points per game in his six games as the starter, but some how he wouldn't be able to come close 21 points if he played here. 

 

It's all so bizarre. 

When you mischaracterize everyone's opinions in that way it sure is.

[whatdrought]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You clearly don't understand what the word "fact" means. You keep confusing facts with your personal opinions. 

 

The Bills are 10-4 and have clinched a playoff spot in week 15. The only reason we're not considered Super Bowl contenders because our offense is so poor. 

 

You are what everyone's mama ever warned them about... 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

What about Russell Wilson?

 

Why ignore the success and longevity he's had?

 

What about Russel Wilson?  He plays in a completely different offense then Jackson does.  If anything Wilson's use of the run, even as a young player, is far closer to Allen's style then Jackson's.  Do you actually watch the Ravens play offense?  It is a truly unique platform in what they ask their QB to do.

 

Oh and for the record, Wilson is a prime example of how a smart QB runs.  Allen needs to learn from what Wilson does.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

 

It's been said several times in this thread, including by a mod, that Jackson wouldn't be anywhere close to what Allen is in Buffalo. "Nothing" is perhaps overstating it but so is what was actually said. 

 

But that's not the same thing as what you're saying.  I'm one of those convinced that Jackson would not do as well as Allen in the Buffalo offensive system with the Bills current group of players. 

 

To be fair it's an almost impossible question to answer because the Ravens are running such a unique offense.  But when you look at Jackson's passing game, which is primarily short & intermediate throws to his TE's in the middle of the field with an occasional over the top throw, you see the classic passing success you get against teams geared up to stop a dangerous running game.

 

When Jackson throws to the sideline his accuracy drops significantly.  Jackson's reads are complex but do not focus solely on the passing options.  He reads the run first to decide whether he keeps the ball or hands it off to the RB.  If neither is open he progresses to making a pass read which usually involves a RB or TE on a shallow cross across the middle.  He is not often asked to read the entire field in the Ravens passing attack.  In most conventional spread offenses he would be asked to read the field and get the ball to the open spot.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

On 12/17/2019 at 7:33 AM, jrober38 said:

 

No, I'm saying if you have a great defense and a QB who is bottom 10 in practically every passing category, they deserve little credit.

 

I think Josh is a bottom 10 QB in the NFL right now. If that continues for another year or two we should be looking for someone new. Hopefully he improves and ranks in the top half of the league next year. 

 

Where do you think he should rank? Top half? Top 10?

 

Does Allen deserve credit for the 5 games the Bills won where he led a game winning drive in the 4th quarter?

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes which follows my theory of Harbaugh/Roman simply using Jackson up on his rookie deal running that offense...if I was his agent I would be bolstering my claim to a long term deal NOW

If I were Jackson, given his style, I would hold out in the off season for a big deal.  His style is going to get him hurt, 100% injury rate in the NFL, his style magnifies it.

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

If I were Jackson, given his style, I would hold out in the off season for a big deal.  His style is going to get him hurt, 100% injury rate in the NFL, his style magnifies it.

 

Not a bad idea at all, but if I'm not mistaken, they can't even negotiate a new deal until the end of next year? Something about three accrued seasons? I think Wentz got paid as early as is possible. It would be nice for him as his value is at an all time high (especially if they win the SB), but alas.

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Why do you think his receivers are wide open?

 

Daboll schemes guys open.

 

Sometimes they drop it.

Sometimes Allen misses them by 5 or more yards. 

 

The NextGenStats for separation and expected completion percentage do not support any of these opinions.

 

How about that Brown in Baltimore with Lamar vs Brown in Buffalo with Allen comparison?