Is Jason Peters the greatest Eagle of all time?

[pennstate10]

On 9/27/2019 at 4:07 AM, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

3-4 Scheme likely suppressed his sack totals.  LDE In Bills 3-4 was more of a edge setter than pass rusher. 

 

It’s a fairly well supported technical football argument.

 

Don’t know about 30... 

 

 

Really?.

and what are your sources?

 

Again, think this through for a second.

 

the LEFT tackle plays opposite the RIGHT DE. 

 

You know, the LEFT tackle who is considered he most valuable OL. 

 

I thought this was basic knowledge, but to spell it out, your best pass rusher plays RDE, who is on a R handed QB blind side. 

 

The argument that your best pass rusher should play LEFT DE is only correct if you're playing a left handed QB. 

[valle78787878]

Jason peters has missed a lot of time because of injuries.    NO WAY IS HE A HALL OF FAMER!!!!!

[McBean]

Traded away peters and Lynch 

 

passed on gronkowski, Mack, and Mahomes.

 

This franchise man...

[Mango]

On 9/27/2019 at 5:54 AM, Niagara Dude said:

I still remember his first season with Buffalo,  showed his athletic ability on special teams by blocking a punt against Seahawks.  I think he started as a TE and then was moved to LT,  one of the guys we should have kept around.

 

The honest answer is, we are a brutal fan base with a generation of irrelevance. When things are going well, we will make all the excuses. When things go poorly, talent be damned, GTFO. 

35 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

 

 

Really?.

and what are your sources?

 

Again, think this through for a second.

 

the LEFT tackle plays opposite the RIGHT DE. 

 

You know, the LEFT tackle who is considered he most valuable OL. 

 

I thought this was basic knowledge, but to spell it out, your best pass rusher plays RDE, who is on a R handed QB blind side. 

 

The argument that your best pass rusher should play LEFT DE is only correct if you're playing a left handed QB. 

 

Yeah, he bungled that. 

 

But it the point remains, however odd topic, that Bruce was a premier pass rusher at a position that isn’t meant to rush the passer. Surely we can agree on that. 

11 minutes ago, McBean said:

Traded away peters and Lynch 

 

passed on gronkowski, Mack, and Mahomes.

 

This franchise man...

 

With recency bias, does Gilmore fit into this category? 

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

 

 

Really?.

and what are your sources?

 

Again, think this through for a second.

 

the LEFT tackle plays opposite the RIGHT DE. 

 

You know, the LEFT tackle who is considered he most valuable OL. 

 

I thought this was basic knowledge, but to spell it out, your best pass rusher plays RDE, who is on a R handed QB blind side. 

 

The argument that your best pass rusher should play LEFT DE is only correct if you're playing a left handed QB. 

 

 

Way back in the 7 step drop days the idea was the best way to consistently get to the QB was to try to hit the QB from the blindside.

 

By the early 90's much of the league was switching to versions of the quick passing WCO.

 

The reality is that the best way to get to the QB is sending your best pass rusher thru the weakest/least-helped/most vulnerable pass blocker.

 

Still need your best blocker on the left because the best way to injure a QB is still via the blindside.

 

But guys like Reggie White and Michael Strahan and JJ Watt were/are not traditional bendy edge rushers but they stacked massive sack numbers by taking the path of least resistance.

 

Reggie White's crowing moment was getting two sacks against a bum named Max Lane in the Super Bowl.  

 

Bruce Smith lined up against Jumbo Elliott,  Jim Lachey and Mark Tuinei.........great offensive lineman........in his SB's.

 

[thebandit27]

On 9/27/2019 at 1:12 PM, Trogdor said:

Peters' averages about a sack a game and im not sure how great that is. I never thought he was that great honestly, but I might be biased by the exit. Bell the next year after he left was very good too. I'd still take a healthy Cordy. 

 

A sack a game?

 

No.

 

Just no.

 

In fact, not even close.

 

That would make him the worst OT of all time.

 

In actuality, last year at age 36, Peters allowed 3 sacks in 16 games.

[pennstate10]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Bruce Smith lined up against Jumbo Elliott,  Jim Lachey and Mark Tuinei.........great offensive lineman........in his SB's.

 

 

Thanks for making my point. These premier OL were all LEFT tackles. L

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I can’t believe people are still griping about the Peters trade. His agent told the Bills he was not going to re-sign there. They had to trade him.

 

for what it’s worth, Peters looked terrible for a while after that trade (injuries, poor play), making the Bills look like geniuses for about a year. 

[Thurman#1]

On 9/27/2019 at 3:49 PM, Spiderweb said:

Yeah.. great team guy alright. Anyone remember his infamous non block that got Losman blindsided. That was a non- block on purpose. This was when he was unhappy with the Bills and what he was getting paid at the time. Against the Jets if I recall.

 

 

Yes, he was and is a great team guy. Ask the Eagles, you'll get nothing but kudos. Ask Bills fans and you'll get little but sour grapes.

 

"Banner: I don’t think we appreciated the quality of person we were getting fully. We wouldn’t have traded what we did for him unless we thought we were getting a person who cared and who was going to work hard. But he was fairly quickly a leader by example and word. He worked really, really hard, he cared very much about winning and the team success. I think we got the player we expected, which was a great player and I thought we were getting a good guy and we actually got a great guy. "

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I can’t believe people are still griping about the Peters trade. His agent told the Bills he was not going to re-sign there. They had to trade him.

 

for what it’s worth, Peters looked terrible for a while after that trade (injuries, poor play), making the Bills look like geniuses for about a year. 

 

 

That's utter *****.

 

His agent certainly never told the Bills he was not going to re-sign there. That has never been reported and is the exact opposite of how he worked. He may well have thought that the Bills weren't going to pay what he wanted and so Peters might end up elsewhere, but if they'd paid there's no indication whatsoever Peters or Parker didn't want a contract with the Bills.

 

The way Eugene Parker, Peters' agent. worked was to figure out the player's real value and not accept less. The Bills had two options, pay him what he wanted, and what the Eagles paid him, or trade him. They traded him, and it was a dumb decision and meant years of sub-par LTs like Demetrius Bell, Langston Walker, Chris Hairston and to QBs with the yips from worry.

 

It was a huge contract at the time, but a couple of years down the road with an All-Pro LT, it looked like just a fair deal according to the LT market.

 

And you're absolutely dead wrong about how he looked after the trade too. Countless Bills fans moaned and cried sour grapes to the point that many in Buffalo believed that he hadn't been good in Philly, but it's nonsense. Peters made the Pro Bowl six out of the next seven years after the trade, and five of those seven years he was first or second team All-Pro. The only year he missed the Pro Bowl was the year he missed the season with a ruptured Achilles tendon in his fourth year there. You mention the first year particularly, and again, that's nonsense. He played 15 games and made the Pro Bowl and deserved it.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 hours ago, valle78787878 said:

Jason peters has missed a lot of time because of injuries.    NO WAY IS HE A HALL OF FAMER!!!!!

R u joking? The only question will be if he is first ballot or waits a year or two. Joe Thomas will get in a year or two ahead of Peters.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Way back in the 7 step drop days the idea was the best way to consistently get to the QB was to try to hit the QB from the blindside.

 

By the early 90's much of the league was switching to versions of the quick passing WCO.

 

The reality is that the best way to get to the QB is sending your best pass rusher thru the weakest/least-helped/most vulnerable pass blocker.

 

Still need your best blocker on the left because the best way to injure a QB is still via the blindside.

 

But guys like Reggie White and Michael Strahan and JJ Watt were/are not traditional bendy edge rushers but they stacked massive sack numbers by taking the path of least resistance.

 

Reggie White's crowing moment was getting two sacks against a bum named Max Lane in the Super Bowl.  

 

Bruce Smith lined up against Jumbo Elliott,  Jim Lachey and Mark Tuinei.........great offensive lineman........in his SB's.

 

 

 

People talk about this, the end of the dominant left tackle, and how the defense comes from everywhere now ... but each year the results look much the same as they always have.

 

If it really were true that "the best way to get to the QB is sending your best pass rusher thru the weakest/least-helped/most vulnerable pass blocker," then we'd see the sack leaders at all positions, MLB, ILB, DT and so on, and and the tendency would be to rush the guards because they're nearly always the weakest pass blockers.

 

What you find instead is that nearly all the best pass rushers in the league come around or through the LT.

 

Look at the top eleven sack artists from last year (eleven because five guys tied for 7th, leaving a top 11 instead of a top ten). Seven of the top eleven rush the LT: Chris Jones, Danielle Hunter, Myles Garrett, Frank Clark, Chandler Jones, and TJ Watt

 

 

 

And the one exception who's not mostly taking on tackles is freak-of-nature Aaron Donald. The guy who's moved around a lot as you suggest is another freak, JJ Watt. For the rest of the world, it's seven LTs/LOLBs, ROLB Kerrigan and Von Miller, as well as KC RDE Dee Ford, who lined up at LDE most of his career, though he's now an RDE due to being across from a better rusher in LDE Chris Jones.

 

Nine out of eleven coming against the tackles (and JJ Watt gets a lot of his sacks that way too) and six of the nine from the defensive right side. Sacks still mostly come over the LT, with a solid minority coming around the RT instead. You don't put your best blocker at LT just because injuries happen from there (is there data on that?), it's because that's still where the defense lines up most of their best sack artists every year.

 

And the rest of the sack list is much the same. Far more DE/OLBs higher than other positions and more coming over the LT than the other side.

 

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

People talk about this, the end of the dominant left tackle, and how the defense comes from everywhere now ... but each year the results look much the same as they always have.

 

If it really were true that "the best way to get to the QB is sending your best pass rusher thru the weakest/least-helped/most vulnerable pass blocker," then we'd see the sack leaders at all positions, MLB, ILB, DT and so on, and and the tendency would be to rush the guards because they're nearly always the weakest pass blockers.

 

What you find instead is that nearly all the best pass rushers in the league come around or through the LT.

 

Look at the top eleven sack artists from last year (eleven because five guys tied for 7th, leaving a top 11 instead of a top ten). Seven of the top eleven rush the LT: Chris Jones, Danielle Hunter, Myles Garrett, Frank Clark, Chandler Jones, and TJ Watt

 

 

 

And the one exception who's not mostly taking on tackles is freak-of-nature Aaron Donald. The guy who's moved around a lot as you suggest is another freak, JJ Watt. For the rest of the world, it's seven LTs/LOLBs, ROLB Kerrigan and Von Miller, as well as KC RDE Dee Ford, who lined up at LDE most of his career, though he's now an RDE due to being across from a better rusher in LDE Chris Jones.

 

Nine out of eleven coming against the tackles (and JJ Watt gets a lot of his sacks that way too) and six of the nine from the defensive right side. Sacks still mostly come over the LT, with a solid minority coming around the RT instead. You don't put your best blocker at LT just because injuries happen from there (is there data on that?), it's because that's still where the defense lines up most of their best sack artists every year.

 

And the rest of the sack list is much the same. Far more DE/OLBs higher than other positions and more coming over the LT than the other side.

 

Watt primarily played LDE last season. Clowney played RDE. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by dave mcbride

[soflabillsfan1]

I remember at the time of the Peter's trade I was so pissed at him and his agent.  I was happy the Bills traded him.  I and the Bills were totally wrong.  They traded away a HOF LT in his prime.  They were paying a guy next to Peters in Derrick Dockery nearly double and he never had and would never ended up in a pro bowl.  It was a classic Bill's blunder.  

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I can’t believe people are still griping about the Peters trade. His agent told the Bills he was not going to re-sign there. They had to trade him.

 

for what it’s worth, Peters looked terrible for a while after that trade (injuries, poor play), making the Bills look like geniuses for about a year. 

 

 

He didn't look terrible after the trade...........he went to a new conference and made the pro bowl in his first season.

 

What was lost on people like yourself was that Peters was always an incredible run blocker........the best in the league at any OL position at the time of the trade.......... even the year that he had his holdout and by far his worst season pass blocking.    

 

He was never terrible.   You must have put too much stock in @PromoTheRobot scouting.    Promo still thinks he has sucked all along. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

 

Thanks for making my point. These premier OL were all LEFT tackles. L

 

 

You're welcome.

 

No question Bruce played on a less sack-friendly scheme and against MUCH better OL.

 

You need more ammo?

 

The one OL that White had to play semi-often who was comparable to a great LT was Erik Williams of Dallas.............and in the playoff game where they met White was held to zero tackles.    Manhandled more than any game I ever saw Bruce play against any of the HOF level LT's he faced.    

 

White was a great player...........he could have played all 4 positions at a high level........but he wouldn't have been as good as Bruce as a RDE and Bruce would have gotten more sacks as a LDE.

 

White was the better all around DL but Bruce was easily the better pass rusher and the stats don't reflect that disparity.

[auburnbillsbacker]

It was a shame how things worked out.  They picked him up as a rookie free agent tight end.  He made the practice squad but the Bills were smart enough to put him on the active roster once another team tried to sign him away.  They saw his potential as a lineman, moved him there, then gave him a new contract to reward his strong play at right tackle.  They then moved him to left tackle while paying huge money to Dockery and Walker.  Peters got mad because he was underpaid but the Bills didn't want to give him a 2nd new deal until the end of the season.  Peters sat out then came back with a few weeks left, intentionally played like crap, and was traded. 

 

The Bills were a huge reason why he had a hall of fame NFL career.  He would have been a fat TE without them.  Yes they should of paid him top money, but it is rare to give someone 2 new contracts in such a short period of time.  If Peters actually tried I'm sure the Bills would have made him the top paid LT in football.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, matter2003 said:

I think Bruce has something to say about that...

Also lets remember that White played LDE going up against a much weaker right tackle in that era whereas Bruce did it against the premier left tackles in the game...

 

If Bruce played LDE and went up against right tackles he may have had several 30 sacks seasons and possibly 300 sacks...im not kidding.

 

In that era there was a stark difference between left and right tackles. Not so much anymore so it isnt that big of a deal what side a player lines up on. Not so back then. White had a much easier path to his sacks than Smith did.

 

 

 

Also 4-3 D (Reggie) as opposed to a 3-4 (Bruce)

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He didn't look terrible after the trade...........he went to a new conference and made the pro bowl in his first season.

 

What was lost on people like yourself was that Peters was always an incredible run blocker........the best in the league at any OL position at the time of the trade.......... even the year that he had his holdout and by far his worst season pass blocking.    

 

He was never terrible.   You must have put too much stock in @PromoTheRobot scouting.    Promo still thinks he has sucked all along. 

 

Read the media reports at the time. People

thought the Bills won on that trade. Here is one article I just pulled up on google: 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/323415-jason-peters-trade-looks-better-and-better-for-the-buffalo-bills

 

He then proceeded to miss large parts of training camp with injuries.  Then he was hurt in a preseason game and did not even travel with the team for a game.  The regular season came and Peters spent almost the entire season on the injury report and missed all or part of several games, yet he still made the Pro Bowl (that is another story altogether).

The games that he did play in told the real tale. He never looked at home at left tackle in Philly.  Sure he had a couple good games but when it came to stopping a quick pass rush from multiple spots he struggled greatly as was seen throughout the season and especially on Saturday night against Dallas.

 

[JMF2006]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:48 PM, VW82 said:

Sometimes I still get mad about the Peters trade but I enjoyed EWood. Him and Richie and Shady were basically the whole offense for a couple years. 

 

But anytime you can trade away a HOF LT just entering his prime you just have to do it. 

 

He wasn't happy here and the Bills were too cheap to pay him which probably lead to a lot of his unhappiness