Josh Allen - Draft night retrospect

[DasNootz]

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The only move I can remember the Bills ever making that the fans unanimously hated, and where the fans were proven right, was trading Lamonica.  Everyone knew that was idiotic.

Drafting Whitner of Ngata was pretty widely hated as was taking Maybin over Orakpo

[Bring it]

I figured we would end up Rosen as well. Thought he was the most ready of all of them. Didn’t feel Mayfield could compete but really don’t like Rosen’s attitude!

Wasn’t sure how I felt about drafting Allen beyond that arm of his! And I like that he is from a rural small town atmosphere but not sure if he would be somewhat intimidated early. Boy was I wrong!!!

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, DasNootz said:

Drafting Whitner of Ngata was pretty widely hated as was taking Maybin over Orakpo

 

Maybin over Orakpo was the stupidest thing. You don't even have positional need to rationalize that, it was just a matter of not understanding football. 

[Blokestradamus]

Just now, whatdrought said:

Well I don't know about you personally, but if that is indeed how you handled yourself than kudos- no issue here. There was, however, on this board a very very passionate divide between the Josh's that surpassed reasonable "we don't know but this is what I think" and went into "I know everything territory." that was super annoying and I think that's what many are commenting on up thread. I personally prefer to take it like you do- just have opinions and be comfortable with being right or wrong. I didn't know much about Mahomes, but I thought he was a bust waiting to happen.

 

People like to pile on when other people offer their opinions, that's the beauty of the internet age. The reality is that a significant portion of anyone giving draft opinions won't actually watch that many games. They'll find a talking point and it essentially works as the NFL draft version of Chinese Whispers.

 

We also cannot discount, as much as I loathe to drag this into a political realm, that there was far more going on culturally with pro/anti Josh Rosen people than just his football acumen. That probably helped to lend itself to the fractuous nature of the debate.

[RU5781]

I didn't know what to think. I liked Rosen initially, but Boomer Esiason kept RAVING about Josh Allen and how he thought he was going to be a star. I figured that was good enough for me...Boomer knows his stuff. 

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

We also cannot discount, as much as I loathe to drag this into a political realm, that there was far more going on culturally with pro/anti Josh Rosen people than just his football acumen. That probably helped to lend itself to the fractuous nature of the debate.

 

That's a good point. I think that played on both sides with some preferring him because of his views, and others disliking him cause of that. I think there was a lot of ideological things going on as well. For whatever reason, the new age commentators found in themselves a desire to hold up Rosen as the prototype while deriding Allen as the beacon of what used to be and what needed to be passed away. Many are still holding onto that view and it's super annoying. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

We also cannot discount, as much as I loathe to drag this into a political realm, that there was far more going on culturally with pro/anti Josh Rosen people than just his football acumen. That probably helped to lend itself to the fractuous nature of the debate.

 

This is 100% right. 

[mrags]

2 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Admittedly, I know very little about football scouting. I suppose Beane and McDermott are better at evaluating players and their “fit” with the team. If they want to go fly fishing, I can help them with that. 

Or a good ambulance chaser like you...

[DasNootz]

In retrospect - we all knew that Allen had the least "coaching" coming into the draft.  Looking back at his combine video, it's evident how much he's physically improved too.  His 40 time was respectable at 4.76, but his form is terrible and he looked heavier than he is now.  Had he received top level training at Wyoming, I think his measurables would have been that much better and set himself apart even more than he did.

[corta765]

I was NOT team Allen I wanted Rosen if we couldn’t get Baker or Darnold. I was actually so mad they picked Allen I left the draft party I was at. I really didn’t think he would do much.

 

The Minnesota game changed it all for me and I’ve been all for him since then. I am not sure if he will be an all time great but I absolutely think he is talented enough to bring a title to buffalo.

[DrDawkinstein]

22 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

People like to pile on when other people offer their opinions, that's the beauty of the internet age. The reality is that a significant portion of anyone giving draft opinions won't actually watch that many games. They'll find a talking point and it essentially works as the NFL draft version of Chinese Whispers.

 

We also cannot discount, as much as I loathe to drag this into a political realm, that there was far more going on culturally with pro/anti Josh Rosen people than just his football acumen. That probably helped to lend itself to the fractuous nature of the debate.

 

 

You mean the anti-semitic trolls who spammed the board for the month leading up to the draft, only to have completely disappeared ever since? (Or gone back to their real usernames and are still among us)

[Blokestradamus]

4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

That's a good point. I think that played on both sides with some preferring him because of his views, and others disliking him cause of that. I think there was a lot of ideological things going on as well. For whatever reason, the new age commentators found in themselves a desire to hold up Rosen as the prototype while deriding Allen as the beacon of what used to be and what needed to be passed away. Many are still holding onto that view and it's super annoying. 

 

There is a definite contrast between the two. I'll always make no secret of the fact that I like Josh Rosen as a human being but I do understand why people within the football community, especially those from a more working-class background, might find him to be an unwelcome extension of some form of 'liberal elite'. There are seemingly many within the game that see his outside interests as a distraction but that isn't a new thing specifically for Mr Rosen. I remember the debate with Derek Carr a few years back, with some wondering if him being married with a kid at 22/23 was a bad thing. My main take from all of that is that you need to be a borderline sociopath to work in the NFL.

 

With Mr Allen, if you buy into the idea of him being some 'big, dumb white farm kid' then that's your prerogative. I think over the past year or so, he's proven himself to be far smarter than that idea. He's shown that he's willing to work hard for his craft (which is imperative) and he's shown himself to be a natural leader of men. There is a magnetism about the kid that is clear to see. His personality is far more endearing for a lot of people and he's more of a 'football guy', whatever the ***** that means.

[foreboding]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Now that WAS dumb.  HOORAY!!!  Bills trade up for Russell Wilso -  WHHAAA?  TJ Graham?

I was shocked. After seeing that little documentary on wilson, I was hopeful.

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

There is a definite contrast between the two. I'll always make no secret of the fact that I like Josh Rosen as a human being but I do understand why people within the football community, especially those from a more working-class background, might find him to be an unwelcome extension of some form of 'liberal elite'. There are seemingly many within the game that see his outside interests as a distraction but that isn't a new thing specifically for Mr Rosen. I remember the debate with Derek Carr a few years back, with some wondering if him being married with a kid at 22/23 was a bad thing. My main take from all of that is that you need to be a borderline sociopath to work in the NFL.

 

With Mr Allen, if you buy into the idea of him being some 'big, dumb white farm kid' then that's your prerogative. I think over the past year or so, he's proven himself to be far smarter than that idea. He's shown that he's willing to work hard for his craft (which is imperative) and he's shown himself to be a natural leader of men. There is a magnetism about the kid that is clear to see. His personality is far more endearing for a lot of people and he's more of a 'football guy', whatever the ***** that means.

 

Agreed. I think it just goes to show that instead of building hills to die on about these guys, we should have open conversations and let history do what it does- separate the men from the boys. 

[Blokestradamus]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

You mean the anti-semitic trolls who spammed the board for the month leading up to the draft, only to have completely disappeared ever since? (Or gone back to their real usernames and are still among us)

 

I think we can still see a few anti-Semitic tropes being dropped in threads about Josh Rosen. They feel safe hiding in plain sight.

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

Agreed. I think it just goes to show that instead of building hills to die on about these guys, we should have open conversations and let history do what it does- separate the men from the boys. 

 

I don't know about not building hills to die on, as long as you remember to have fun with that. Disliking Kelvin Benjamin will always be too fun to give up on

[Say When...]

15 minutes ago, corta765 said:

I was NOT team Allen I wanted Rosen if we couldn’t get Baker or Darnold. I was actually so mad they picked Allen I left the draft party I was at. I really didn’t think he would do much.

 

The Minnesota game changed it all for me and I’ve been all for him since then. I am not sure if he will be an all time great but I absolutely think he is talented enough to bring a title to buffalo.

 

this is where i was at; i was upset to the point of being mad.  My buddy (a lifetime fins fan) kept telling me it was going to work out "Allen is near the top of that whole 2018 QB class" and he still says that to this day.

 

• I was ALL Darnold but i knew he'd be gone long before us (I still think he ends up the cream of this crop when it's all said and done but Gase will do everything in his poer to destroy him)
• Secondly i wanted Rosen, i had bought into the hype and intangibles the media was peddling
• Baker was an enigma for me, I knew he was a winner and a gamer but for some reason i kept translating it to JohnnyFootball 2.0
• Lamar was intriguing and i was/am rooting for the guy but history tells us ultra-mobile QB's don't have long careers for one reason or another and as someone said his Wonderlic score can't be a result of not trying, that will limit him as D's get educated and his talent won't win every game.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Say When...

[WideNine]

52 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Somewhere on here I have a post lambasting the trade. Basically we chose Josh over Lamar Jackson + two 2nds + one 3rd + Cordy Glenn. I wanted Jackson at the time but I suppose there was no way of knowing leading into the draft that he'd he fall past our 22nd pick or whatever. Time will tell if we made the right move. 

 

If the Bills had kept Roman as a coordinator I think I would have been fine with Lamar or Allen.

 

I thought they would both excel at running the read option offenses. As they seemed to shine most when on the move.

 

Longer term this may be better development for Allen. Jury is still out on all these guys as it is only year 2 and not all of them had a full year 1.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by WideNine

[foreboding]

1 hour ago, dakrider said:

It seems possible that if the Bills had taken Rosen and the Cards had taken Allen, he could have still ended up being traded away and Allen could be in the bad situation in Miami. 

Bills fans would be talking more about their O-line and weapons for Rosen.  

No chance, Josh's physical gifts are too great. Even if he wasnt improving at the rate he is...he's the kind of qb that gets multiple chances. Whereas Rosen is a skinny, surly, mediocre arm guy. Nothing impressive.

 

I'm telling you, i think Rosen's ceiling is our excellent backup.

 

Who would you rather have, Barkley or Rosen?

[DrDawkinstein]

I was high on:

• Darnold (still think he was/is the best prospect from that class)
• Rosen (as a pro-ready prospect)

Fine with Allen, knew the physical aspects were there, but worried about lower division experience and making the transition.

 

Never liked:

• Mayfield
• Jackson

[mrags]

1 hour ago, gobills1212 said:

No joke, I carried a post it around in my pocket all day. After the pick i yelled and screamed and scared the crap out of my dogs. I remembered the postit in my pocket, crumbled it up and tossed it on the ground. My wife thought i was being a little ridiculous as she correctly went with the school of thought 'they know more/better than us and Allens now our guy', even though she was a tyrod fan. After i left the room she burst out laughing and said 'Really'?!? She had picked up and read the postit. It said 'Rosen no matter what'. 

 

Lol. Ok Kevin Costner