Josh Allen - Draft night retrospect

[MrSarcasm]

My ranking was Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Rudolph, Jackson and then Rosen.

 

 Honestly I'd still keep it that way now although I might move Rudolph up above Darnold ( I was really high on him and still am)

 

I do think Jackson is overhyped- In the KC game he was playing '500' and just happened to get bailed out by his WRs and the Chiefs poor secondary.

 

?

[Maynard]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not sure about Jackson yet. There was a time when he was my #1 QB in the draft. I love a mobile QB. I don't understand why so many people are resistant to that. A good QB with elite mobility is impossible to defend. I saw Jackson's next level mobility and a good deep ball and I saw a successful NFL QB. Then he took the wonderlic and I lost all interest in him. You cant make it as a dumb QB in the NFL these days. I've watched a lot of his plays this year and something still seems a little off. It doesn't feel sustainable. But maybe he'll prove me wrong.

I’d agree. We are so early in the season to judge any of the 2018 rookie QB class.  I’m not sure if what Jackson is doing is sustainable, but he’s definitely surprised me a bit.

[CommonCents]

Lots of those “wrong josh” posters were the same ones that mocked the Giants for Daniel Jones. 

 

Can we group all those guys up and have them pick the Patriots next QB? 

[gobills1212]

No joke, I carried a post it around in my pocket all day. After the pick i yelled and screamed and scared the crap out of my dogs. I remembered the postit in my pocket, crumbled it up and tossed it on the ground. My wife thought i was being a little ridiculous as she correctly went with the school of thought 'they know more/better than us and Allens now our guy', even though she was a tyrod fan. After i left the room she burst out laughing and said 'Really'?!? She had picked up and read the postit. It said 'Rosen no matter what'. 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by gobills1212

[gobills1212]

19 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

This is a perfect example of an unintelligent post.

I get what @big curt is saying, we arent out of the clear yet by any means - but this league is SSSSOOOO week to week. After the 1st Bears game people were ready to sting Mitchy up and stone him. 1 bad game does a lot more harm than it used to. BUT like they were saying on the radio yesterday, this is how Bills fans cope. To be invested in Allen is the same as being invested in the 4-0 2011 Buffalo Bills. It stings when it doesnt work for sure so you dont go all in with the heart. No doubt if the Bills fall this week theyll be plenty of anti josh threads as the crap from past weeks game day threads will leak on to the rest of the board in actual topics. 1 good game later he will be back in everyones good graces. 

Is allens fate sealed either way? No. But dont discount the good and fun for fear of the bad. Thatll naturally happen. Its possible Mahomes falls off a cliff at some point. Likley? No, but bonafide star qbs take a few years to take shape. They can fall just as fast, just look st Cam. Enjoy the ride man! And not for nothing, i think there is a way to enjoy w out being heart broken...but its not as simple as putting homer glasses on and off

[LB3]

? "Ermagherd! Did you read his teenage tweets?!?"

Edited September 25, 2019 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

No you’re not.  I was excited for TJ Graham!!

 

With Russell Wilson and Captain Kirk still on the board, trading up for TJumptomakeacatch Graham was arguably the stupidest draft pick in the history of this franchise.

 

WRT Allen, I was excited to get him and was sold on his first deep out.  Must be great to have a thunderbolt for an arm.

[GunnerBill]

I said last week I now think of the 2018 QBs he is the most likely to be a franchise Quarterback. 

 

I never run from my opinions. Never hide from what I thought. I do the work, I put the hours in and feel qualified to have a view. I always post my draft opinions (of Quarterbacks particularly but of other positions too) very clearly on this board and I never shy away from them. I didn't love Patrick Mahomes either. The huge ceiling questionable mechanics guys that are a bit boom and bust tend to frighten me more than they do others. One the flip side I loved Deshaun Watson and had a high 2nd rounder on Dak Prescott. Some you miss and some you hit that is life. 

 

The one thing I never do is refuse to adjust my view on how a guy will be in the pros based on his pro tape because I am still stuck on my view of how likely he was to succeed based on his college tape. You have to be open to changing your mind when the evidence changes. 

[njbuff]

I knew Allen was McDermott's guy and I told everyone on this board when McDermott first took over.

 

So it was hardly a surprise when the Bills traded up to get Allen on draft day.

[whatdrought]

It's still early, but the initial returns have, if nothing else, debunked the "Allen won't be ready for years, if ever, but Rosen is a day one Hall of Famer." 

 

There was something about the "right Josh" crowd that surpassed traditional "i think" and went to "I know for a fact and if you doubt me it's cause you're mentally insufficient" and I have greatly enjoyed seeing some holes poked in that. 

[CincyBillsFan]

I loved the Allen pick as I had watched a lot of late night Wyoming games on espn and had never seen a QB, AT ANY LEVEL, make the plays this kid routinely did!

 

But in full disclosure I hated when the Bills made McDermitt the head coach.  Please, not another Defensive Coordinator!  And I knew for sure that Carolina's great D was because of Ron Rivera NOT McDermitt.  Man am I glad I was 100% wrong about that one. 

 

The lesson learned?  As fans all we have are gut feelings and hunches because we sure as hell don't know that much about these things!

 

Oh and for the record nothing changes if the Pats beat us by 3 TD's.

 

 

 

 

[njbuff]

1 hour ago, Big Curt said:

The Jury is still out on him.  He's inconsistent at best and barely average for a starting QB.  He has potential and that is all at this point.   R.E.L.A.X  Do I like what I see thus far? Absolutely.  However, this is such a small sample size and people already have him in tha hall of Fame.

 

Who has him in the HOF?

[oldmanfan]

The only move I can remember the Bills ever making that the fans unanimously hated, and where the fans were proven right, was trading Lamonica.  Everyone knew that was idiotic.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I was excited about the possibilities...

[VW82]

Somewhere on here I have a post lambasting the trade. Basically we chose Josh over Lamar Jackson + two 2nds + one 3rd + Cordy Glenn. I wanted Jackson at the time but I suppose there was no way of knowing leading into the draft that he'd he fall past our 22nd pick or whatever. Time will tell if we made the right move. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by VW82

[whatdrought]

54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I wanted Rosen over any of the other four.  I felt he was the most pro ready guy in the draft, and when Roger got up and said Josh I was yelling Rosen!!!.  When he said Allen I was very disappointed.  But of course it appears my reaction was wrong, based on early results.  Allen fits the Bills and the city, and I see a bright future for him.  I also still see a bright future for Rosen, if he can get to a team that can actually protect him and is not the dregs of the league.  The question now with Rosen is whether his attitude may be such that he won't succeed. 

 

I didn't and still don't think Mayfield or Darnold had what it takes to be a great NFL QB, although to be fair neither of them have had great coaching as of yet.  Mayfield has a guy that's never been a HC anywhere taking the reins and Darnold has Gase so enough said there.  

 

The real shocker is Jackson.  I think there are very few people who could have envisioned the impact he's having so early in his career.

 

I think the thing that has me still not expecting Rosen to turn into anything is that, for one, he wasn't pro-ready like people said he was, which was his biggest attribute supposedly. The intelligence he was supposed to bring is just not there on the field. Secondly, two teams have spent significant draft capital on him, and then given up on him almost immediately... While the argument could rightfully be made that those teams are ***** shows, you do wonder about his functionality in a locker room/if there are other things driving those issues. Time will tell. 

 

Darnold is a mystery to me... It think the Jets did a good job of getting the perfect coaching staff to thoroughly ruin him, and I think the season would be over for them even if he's still playing. I also could see the Mono being one of those things that people point to as the great "what if" of a talented QB never becoming more than average. I wouldn't be sad one bit by that. 

 

Jackson confuses me. I was not a fan coming out, and I am warming up to him, but I don't think I buy the hype yet. I want to see sustained success. He looked pretty pedestrian last week before garbage time, from what I gather. 

 

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I said last week I now think of the 2018 QBs he is the most likely to be a franchise Quarterback. 

 

I never run from my opinions. Never hide from what I thought. I do the work, I put the hours in and feel qualified to have a view. I always post my draft opinions (of Quarterbacks particularly but of other positions too) very clearly on this board and I never shy away from them. I didn't love Patrick Mahomes either. The huge ceiling questionable mechanics guys that are a bit boom and bust tend to frighten me more than they do others. One the flip side I loved Deshaun Watson and had a high 2nd rounder on Dak Prescott. Some you miss and some you hit that is life. 

 

The one thing I never do is refuse to adjust my view on how a guy will be in the pros based on his pro tape because I am still stuck on my view of how likely he was to succeed based on his college tape. You have to be open to changing your mind when the evidence changes. 

 

Good post. I'm glad you were seemingly wrong, and I hope you continue to be wrong on this topic. I hope you're so wrong that you eventually have to go to canton and confess your wrongness to Allen's bust. 

 

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

But in full disclosure I hated when the Bills made McDermitt the head coach.  Please, not another Defensive Coordinator!  And I knew for sure that Carolina's great D was because of Ron Rivera NOT McDermitt.  Man am I glad I was 100% wrong about that one. 

 

Now it's really starting to look like Rivera had good Defenses because of McD.... 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

I didn't like it at all and was dead wrong. I do think, however, that a big reason for that was that Wyoming was not on TV all that much as far as I knew. I saw a ton of games of Mayfield, Rosen, Jackson, Darnold, Rudolph, etc. I just didn't see Josh play, so I relied more on highlight reels both good and bad, and scouting reports. He won me over very quick, however, as a guy first because we had not seen him play as a Bill. And I wanted him to start game one play one, although that had more to do with Peterman than Josh. It's hard to know what is in the future but ai think Allen is going to end up the best of all of them, including Mayfield. 

[Blokestradamus]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I said last week I now think of the 2018 QBs he is the most likely to be a franchise Quarterback. 

 

I never run from my opinions. Never hide from what I thought. I do the work, I put the hours in and feel qualified to have a view. I always post my draft opinions (of Quarterbacks particularly but of other positions too) very clearly on this board and I never shy away from them. I didn't love Patrick Mahomes either. The huge ceiling questionable mechanics guys that are a bit boom and bust tend to frighten me more than they do others. One the flip side I loved Deshaun Watson and had a high 2nd rounder on Dak Prescott. Some you miss and some you hit that is life. 

 

The one thing I never do is refuse to adjust my view on how a guy will be in the pros based on his pro tape because I am still stuck on my view of how likely he was to succeed based on his college tape. You have to be open to changing your mind when the evidence changes. 

 

This is where I'm at philosophically with the draft. Nobody can accuse either of us of being disingenuous because we assess the evidence we're given and make our own conclusions with it. Nowhere in our prognostications do we suggest that growth isn't possible, just that we know that progression is neither guaranteed nor linear.

 

I believe in a sample size. I said a few days after the draft that I'd give Josh 3 years before I wade into the debate again. We all know how I felt about the kid at the time.

 

I don't need years of people throwing my takes in my face to discredit me while forgetting the times that I've been right

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

And I wanted him to start game one play one, although that had more to do with Peterman than Josh. It's hard to know what is in the future but ai think Allen is going to end up the best of all of them, including Mayfield. 

 

So did I. In fact I said when we drafted him as much as I was sceptical he immediately became the best QB on our roster because Peterman and AJMc clearly and demonstrably suck. 

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

This is where I'm at philosophically with the draft. Nobody can accuse either of us of being disingenuous because we assess the evidence we're given and make our own conclusions with it. Nowhere in our prognostications do we suggest that growth isn't possible, just that we know that progression is neither guaranteed nor linear.

 

I believe in a sample size. I said a few days after the draft that I'd give Josh 3 years before I wade into the debate again. We all know how I felt about the kid at the time.

 

I don't need years of people throwing my takes in my face to discredit me while forgetting the times that I've been right

 

Well I don't know about you personally, but if that is indeed how you handled yourself then kudos- no issue here. There was, however, on this board a very very passionate divide between the Josh's that surpassed reasonable "we don't know but this is what I think" and went into "I know everything territory." that was super annoying and I think that's what many are commenting on up thread. I personally prefer to take it like you do- just have opinions and be comfortable with being right or wrong. I didn't know much about Mahomes, but I thought he was a bust waiting to happen.

Edited September 25, 2019 by whatdrought