Mark80 Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 Anyone watch Sumo? I just started a few months ago. It's mesmerizing. There is this young dude Enho coming up. He's only 216 lbs fighting in the top division against mostly 300+ pound and even some 400+ pound dudes who can really move. Imagine the normal wrestling, boxing, MMA world not having any weight classes. I root for Tochinoshin though, he just looks mean. Here is an Enho match from a few days ago. Crazy to me. Starts around 7:20 if my link didn't do it right. It will be obvious which one he is!
Nextmanup Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) I have loved sumo for years, but don't really actively follow it. I think it's fascinating. I've said for a long time football offensive linemen would benefit from some sumo instruction. It's all speed, power, balance. EDIT: Just watched the match you linked to. Make no mistake, the little guy has enormous lower body strength. He uses his size to his advantage. Gets extremely low and establishes a super low CG...then uses his opponent's raw mass against him. You get all that weight moving in one direction and it's hard to stop it. His opponent almost went out of the ring twice before he was eventually driven out. First guy out of the circle loses, so it's OK that the little guy went out too. He still wins. Thanks for posting! Will watch the rest of the video when I have time. Edited September 20, 2019 by Nextmanup 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: First guy out of the circle loses, so it's OK that the little guy went out too. He still wins. Which means if the NFL gets ahold of the sport, there will be multiple cameras and camera angles, at least five on site officials, and a referee in New York reviewing who went out first...and they’ll still get it wrong.
Mark80 Posted September 20, 2019 Author Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I have loved sumo for years, but don't really actively follow it. I think it's fascinating. I've said for a long time football offensive linemen would benefit from some sumo instruction. It's all speed, power, balance. EDIT: Just watched the match you linked to. Make no mistake, the little guy has enormous lower body strength. He uses his size to his advantage. Gets extremely low and establishes a super low CG...then uses his opponent's raw mass against him. You get all that weight moving in one direction and it's hard to stop it. His opponent almost went out of the ring twice before he was eventually driven out. First guy out of the circle loses, so it's OK that the little guy went out too. He still wins. Thanks for posting! Will watch the rest of the video when I have time. All very true. But he is also going against the top guys in the world too who happen to outweigh him by 100-200 lbs, not just some fat slob with no skill. That's why it is so amazing to me. Both Yokozuna's left this one early with injuries so its wide open with 2 days left. I think something like 6 or 7 of them (actually it's 9! just checked) are within 1 loss of the top spot. Should be an exciting final two days. I like the channel I linked because you can watch all the matches in 25 mins. I even kinda like it better that it is in Japanese and I have no idea what they are saying! Edited September 20, 2019 by Mark80
Nextmanup Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mark80 said: All very true. But he is also going against the top guys in the world too who happen to outweigh him by 100-200 lbs, not just some fat slob with no skill. That's why it is so amazing to me. Both Yokozuna's left this one early with injuries so its wide open with 2 days left. I think something like 6 or 7 of them (actually it's 9! just checked) are within 1 loss of the top spot. Should be an exciting final two days. I like the channel I linked because you can watch all the matches in 25 mins. I even kinda like it better that it is in Japanese and I have no idea what they are saying! How quickly are these videos showing up on Youtube after the matches are actually played? I'll watch some of this! 18 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Which means if the NFL gets ahold of the sport, there will be multiple cameras and camera angles, at least five on site officials, and a referee in New York reviewing who went out first...and they’ll still get it wrong. I think the entire nation of Japan would commit seppuku before they would let Americans get a hold of one of their beloved national cultural treasures like sumo. I really love how Japan protects, preserves, and cultivates all of their unique culture.
Mark80 Posted September 20, 2019 Author Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: How quickly are these videos showing up on Youtube after the matches are actually played? I'll watch some of this! I think the entire nation of Japan would commit seppuku before they would let Americans get a hold of one of their beloved national cultural treasures like sumo. I really love how Japan protects, preserves, and cultivates all of their unique culture. Pretty quick. I watched the one from today 9/20 at like 730 am EST. No idea when it actually ended in Japan, but I'm guessing its up in a matter of hours. There have been some very successful Hawaiian Sumo wrestlers, even a Yokozuna or two. But I know what you are saying, the business side of it. Edited September 20, 2019 by Mark80
RaoulDuke79 Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: How quickly are these videos showing up on Youtube after the matches are actually played? I'll watch some of this! I think the entire nation of Japan would commit seppuku before they would let Americans get a hold of one of their beloved national cultural treasures like sumo. I really love how Japan protects, preserves, and cultivates all of their unique culture. These people get it. The perception and dedication to respect is huge in that culture. Very disciplined and I respect them very much. Growing up I remember hearing and equating Japanese products with crap. Now dealing with them fairly regularly, they make some of the highest quality stuff you can get. In my experience it's as good if not better than the things we get from the Germans and swiss.
Mark80 Posted September 20, 2019 Author Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said: These people get it. The perception and dedication to respect is huge in that culture. Very disciplined and I respect them very much. Growing up I remember hearing and equating Japanese products with crap. Now dealing with them fairly regularly, they make some of the highest quality stuff you can get. In my experience it's as good if not better than the things we get from the Germans and swiss. A lot of that was just the Post WWII propaganda talk that just filtered down a generation. Edited September 20, 2019 by Mark80
RaoulDuke79 Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mark80 said: A lot of that was just the Post WWII propaganda talk that just filtered down a generation. Absolutely.
Kevbeau Posted September 20, 2019 Posted September 20, 2019 Was in Japan recently and went to the matches on the 10th. First time seeing it live....I’m hooked. 2
Nextmanup Posted September 21, 2019 Posted September 21, 2019 3 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said: These people get it. The perception and dedication to respect is huge in that culture. Very disciplined and I respect them very much. Growing up I remember hearing and equating Japanese products with crap. Now dealing with them fairly regularly, they make some of the highest quality stuff you can get. In my experience it's as good if not better than the things we get from the Germans and swiss. I have said for years that the only people more German than Germans are the Japanese.
Nextmanup Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 Watched the entirety of the originally posted video, plus the next 2 days of competition last night. The little guy's second match was another super good one...lasted a very long time and had the crowd going crazy during the match, which normally doesn't seem to happen. He has unbelievable speed and balance, at least by Sumo standards. Here it is; go to 6:00 mark. "Enho" is the little guy's name. The crowd loves him!
Mark80 Posted September 25, 2019 Author Posted September 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Watched the entirety of the originally posted video, plus the next 2 days of competition last night. The little guy's second match was another super good one...lasted a very long time and had the crowd going crazy during the match, which normally doesn't seem to happen. He has unbelievable speed and balance, at least by Sumo standards. Here it is; go to 6:00 mark. "Enho" is the little guy's name. The crowd love him! Highly recommend finishing the rest of the basho. It was an excellent finish to the tournament!
Nextmanup Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Mark80 said: Highly recommend finishing the rest of the basho. It was an excellent finish to the tournament! I will do that when I catch some more free time. Do you understand the rules for starting the match? This seems to be a critical piece of strategy and there are a lot of false starts... It seems like 1 guy "wins the coin toss" so to speak and gets the privilege of going LAST. The other guy has to touch the ground first. Then the second guy can wait and get ready, trying to catch the first guy off guard. Then he can quickly touch the ground whenever he wants and that starts the match, with the first guy having to react to the touching. I.E., the guy who touches the ground second starts the match and has a slight advantage. I'm not sure I have that right at all! Just what I have pieced together watching these matches.
Mark80 Posted September 25, 2019 Author Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) I can't find a rhyme or reason as to who sets first. It seems to be mostly based on rank I think with the higher ranked wrestler doing as they prefer (mostly going 2nd). But I think there are some that prefer going first and they do it by choice when they are higher ranked. Takakeisho is an example of this. He did it first every time. But I do know that the match officially starts when both fists of both wrestlers make contact with the ground. Some Gyoji are more strict than others on this so sometimes there is just ghost contact with the 4th hand. When it's stopped it's because one didn't touch the mat with both fists (or wasn't close enough to say good enough according to the Gyoji). Edited September 25, 2019 by Mark80
Nextmanup Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I can't find a rhyme or reason as to who sets first. It seems to be mostly based on rank I think with the higher ranked wrestler doing as they prefer (mostly going 2nd). But I think there are some that prefer going first and they do it by choice when they are higher ranked. Takakeisho is an example of this. He did it first every time. But I do know that the match officially starts when both fists of both wrestlers make contact with the ground. Some Gyoji are more strict than others on this so sometimes there is just ghost contact with the 4th hand. When it's stopped it's because one didn't touch the mat with both fists (or wasn't close enough to say good enough according to the Gyoji). I think you have that all exactly right. Makes sense. The guy with the superior rank "wins the coin toss" automatically and gets to choose if he wants to go first or second. And I think you are right also about the false starts. Sometimes it's kind of a half-assed touching or too quick and the referee stops it saying it wasn't a good enough "touching". I just watched a couple of rules videos on youtube and read some text at a few websites. Nothing really got into the nitty gritty of this, other than the referee signals the start...at which point the bout begins when both guys have touched the ground behind their white chalk line called the shikirisen. The whole thing seems to hinge on the guy touching second b/c that means both have now touched the ground and both can go. I would think you'd always want to go second, but obviously some of these guys don't agree! It's like a face-off in hockey; the home team guy always gets to put his stick on the ice second before the puck is dropped and that is intended as a deliberate advantage to the home player. I also just read that if the mawashi comes off one of the competitors, the bout is immediately stopped and that guy loses! Not sure I want to see that.
Mark80 Posted September 25, 2019 Author Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I think you have that all exactly right. Makes sense. The guy with the superior rank "wins the coin toss" automatically and gets to choose if he wants to go first or second. And I think you are right also about the false starts. Sometimes it's kind of a half-assed touching or too quick and the referee stops it saying it wasn't a good enough "touching". I just watched a couple of rules videos on youtube and read some text at a few websites. Nothing really got into the nitty gritty of this, other than the referee signals the start...at which point the bout begins when both guys have touched the ground behind their white chalk line called the shikirisen. The whole thing seems to hinge on the guy touching second b/c that means both have now touched the ground and both can go. I would think you'd always want to go second, but obviously some of these guys don't agree! It's like a face-off in hockey; the home team guy always gets to put his stick on the ice second before the puck is dropped and that is intended as a deliberate advantage to the home player. I also just read that if the mawashi comes off one of the competitors, the bout is immediately stopped and that guy loses! Not sure I want to see that. Ha! Yeah, I knew that little tid bit, but have yet to see it happen thankfully. I'm actually amazed it doesn't happen often. And on a side note, I think I'm gonna start rooting for Takakeisho. I love his I don't give a F attitude he seems to have. He just looks so nonchalant every match. Hardly throws any salt in. Just like, whatever, lets do this. Plus he may be the next Yokozuna from what I'm seeing as he just got back to Ozeki at only 23. Edited September 25, 2019 by Mark80
Nextmanup Posted September 25, 2019 Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Ha! Yeah, I knew that little tid bit, but have yet to see it happen thankfully. I'm actually amazed it doesn't happen often. The other thing that has occurred to me watching these bouts is that it is kind of crazy how they do this on the elevated clay "stage" of sorts, with quite an awkward slope on the outside of it and like a 2.5 foot drop to "ground level". That's not really ideal! You would think the wrestlers would be constantly getting twisted ankles and knee injuries during falls, especially being so heavy, and I am also surprised folks in the crowd don't get positively pancaked. I have seen a few already where someone in the crowd seemingly got squashed but then everyone is OK after. I'll report back after I finish the whole basho!
Kevbeau Posted September 26, 2019 Posted September 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Nextmanup said: The other thing that has occurred to me watching these bouts is that it is kind of crazy how they do this on the elevated clay "stage" of sorts, with quite an awkward slope on the outside of it and like a 2.5 foot drop to "ground level". That's not really ideal! You would think the wrestlers would be constantly getting twisted ankles and knee injuries during falls, especially being so heavy, and I am also surprised folks in the crowd don't get positively pancaked. I have seen a few already where someone in the crowd seemingly got squashed but then everyone is OK after. I'll report back after I finish the whole basho! Couple camera men/judges got “landed on” at the matches I went to.
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