Edmunds vs the run - a liability?

[YoloinOhio]

Following a strong showing against the Jets, the second-year defensive captain was a bit of a liability in one distinct area of his game — as a run-stuffer.

When the Giants were at their best running the ball, it was usually Edmunds who took a back seat because a single blocker occupied him. He couldn’t find his way through the traffic of a play, and perhaps most concerning, he didn’t show the ability to disengage from the offensive lineman or tight end. It’s been a trend for Edmunds during his rookie season, and again in the Giants game.

It’s a bit confusing. Edmunds has the size, length and power to whip blockers off him. Though, it’s almost as if he wants to keep the opponent at arm’s length until it’s time to make the tackle. The only problem there is Edmunds hasn’t developed the use of his hands well enough to disengage from the blocker. You hear about having “violent hands” all the time for defensive linemen, but perhaps Edmunds could benefit from similar lessons. It’s the only thing holding him back from becoming a good, and maybe even a great, player in the league.

Edmunds has made the most significant strides in his instincts and recognition of plays, though that only takes him so far. His ability to react in coverage and the athleticism he shows makes him into a player to avoid for quarterbacks. Edmunds nearly came away with an interception in the fourth quarter because of it. However, until he improves at disengaging from blocks, teams are likely to continue to target him as a run defender. If he wants to enter the conversation as a premier defender at his position, that one area from his game will need to come along this season.

https://theathletic.com/1219528/2019/09/17/bills-all-22-review-how-the-week-2-film-shows-josh-allen-set-his-new-gold-standard-and-grades-for-each-player/

[Virgil]

After the first drive, they weren’t able to run anymore.  However, they also seemed to abandon it strangely early.  

 

Either way, seems strange 

[Reed83HOF]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I saw this last night; I haven't watched him that much during run plays; I want to focus on this more next week from a viewing perspective. On passing downs I have been watching him move in a space and he seems to be moving well and get where he needs to go and is covering well. I have to remember he is 21 and is not a complete package yet, definitely something he needs to work on...

[elroy16]

He's great when he fires off the snap and blows up gaps. Of course that can lead to him leaving the middle of the field wide open when he's fooled on play action.

 

I'm not worried yet. I'll gladly take a MLB that is slightly below average against the run but good against the pass over the opposite. He's still young, he's super long, and athletic, I think at worst he'll be average against the run, which I can live with.

[DrDawkinstein]

IIRC, McD's defense uses a MLB who is better in, and more focused on, pass coverage and dropping back into the middle of the field, than they are at coming up and stopping the run. Sure, they need to be able to come up and make the stop, but the initial step is a step back into coverage moreso than plugging holes. For example, Keuchley's biggest plays seem to be in coverage. McD's defense relies on the DTs to plug up the middle.

 

At least that's how the Tampa 2/Cover 2 variations have always felt. Even going back to Jauron, and what the Bears used to run with Urlacher (former Safety turned MLB).

 

Guess my point is, I wont say he CANT stop the run, just that maybe he isnt being asked to make it the primary focus of his position.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by DrDawkinstein

[Shaw66]

Can't say I've really studied him, but I don't think he's been a liability.   Last season I thought he was a problem in the run, but this season.  

 

The guy had seven tackles on Sunday, so he obviously was around the ball a fair amount.   That's 112 on the season, and that's not bad.  

 

Plus, most defensive players get occupied by blockers most of the time.  It's the nature of the game.  No edge rushers beat their man all the time; they don't even do it half the time.   Every once in a while they win the battle and make the play.   Similarly, MLBs.   They don't beat the blocker all the time, anywhere close to the time.   Sometimes they just occupy the blocker, and someone else is expected to make the play.   

 

The question for Edmunds, like everyone else, is whether he's making the play when it's his turn, when he has an edge, and he seems to be doing that.   The other question is he flat out beating his man once in a while, and I think he's doing that, too.   

[CaptnCoke11]

I’m probably in the minority but I’m not that impressed with him yet.  He’ll make the occasional play but he’s out of position quite a bit 

Edited September 18, 2019 by CaptnCoke11

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

IIRC, McD's defense uses a MLB who is better in, and more focused on, pass coverage and dropping back into the middle of the field, than they are at coming up and stopping the run. Sure, they need to be able to come up and make the stop, but the initial step is a step back into coverage moreso than plugging holes. For example, Keuchley's biggest plays seem to be in coverage. McD's defense relies on the DTs to plug up the middle.

 

At least that's how the Tampa 2/Cover 2 variations have always felt. Even going back to Jauron, and what the Bears used to run with Urlacher (former Safety turned MLB).

 

Guess my point is, I wont say he CANT stop the run, just that maybe he isnt being asked to make it the primary focus of his position.

 

 

 

This is right.  The overemphasis on the MLBs ability to stop the run is a relic of the old NFL. The most important thing Edmunds does is play pass defense and chase ball carriers to the boundary.  NFL defenses often accept 3 to 5 yard plays in exchange for stopping big plays.  This was not always true. We don't play Barkley every week. We can live with Barkley breaking off a couple runs in exchange for keeping the passing game in check. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, CaptnCoke11 said:

I’m probably in the minority but I’m not that impressed with him yet.  He’ll make the occasional play but he’s out of position quite a bit 

 

No offense, but I dont think you or any of us know exactly where he is supposed to be. He makes plenty of plays in pass coverage, which seems to be the main focus of that position in this defensive scheme.

[Estelle Getty]

I like him and think he is above average but he does seem to lack natural strength. This is evident when you see him constantly drag down ball carriers. He just doesn’t hit very hard for an NFL Mlb, especially given his size. 

[DuckyBoys]

16 minutes ago, Estelle Getty said:

I like him and think he is above average but he does seem to lack natural strength. This is evident when you see him constantly drag down ball carriers. He just doesn’t hit very hard for an NFL Mlb, especially given his size. 

his body type is long and angular  He is not that thick given how tall/long he is  I'll give up the thump for the insane range the guy has  Its much tougher to find a 6'5" Lber who can run with backs/ends than it is to get a 240 lb thumper who is good for two downs and will never see the field vs a hurry up spread offense

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I’m probably in the minority but I’m not that impressed with him yet.  He’ll make the occasional play but he’s out of position quite a bit 

Your entitled to your opinion.....but I think he has been a flat out monster

 

This defense does not work without him there

[Trogdor]

39 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

IIRC, McD's defense uses a MLB who is better in, and more focused on, pass coverage and dropping back into the middle of the field, than they are at coming up and stopping the run. Sure, they need to be able to come up and make the stop, but the initial step is a step back into coverage moreso than plugging holes. For example, Keuchley's biggest plays seem to be in coverage. McD's defense relies on the DTs to plug up the middle.

 

At least that's how the Tampa 2/Cover 2 variations have always felt. Even going back to Jauron, and what the Bears used to run with Urlacher (former Safety turned MLB).

 

Guess my point is, I wont say he CANT stop the run, just that maybe he isnt being asked to make it the primary focus of his position.

 

 

I thought the DTs were supposed to occupy blockers and open gaps for the LBs? I swear I heard that non-stop when they over paid for Star.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I watched the all 22 last night. There was one play in particular that struck me where Eli flipped run the play from run right to run left to run at Tremaine. 

 

My read is they'd rather run at him then away where he can pursue. 

[Lurker]

57 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

Consider the source.    Joe B is a legend (in his own mind)...

[thurst44]

Also, let's keep in mind that in weeks 1 & 2, the Bills faced arguably two of the top three or four running backs in football, and that's skewing the results a bit.

[GG]

The criticism is warranted only for the opening drive, where he was overaggressive in attacking the wrong gap.   He settled down after that, and only had 1-2 bad running plays for the duration.

[Max Fischer]

He's 21, calls the plays, is always around the ball, the coaches seem to love him and he gets better every week.  I think Edmunds is just fine.  

 

[BillsFan17]

So, the best RB in the league ripped off some quality runs, now the youngest LB in NFL history is a liability against the run.... okay. 

[GoBills808]

58 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Your entitled to your opinion.....but I think he has been a flat out monster

 

This defense does not work without him there

This. He is an elite talent at MLB