Isn't it a weird feeling to observe the incompetence of other teams from the POV of rooting for a competent team?

[Buddo]

I've only read some of the replies here, but it does seem as though many people have 'missed the point'.

 

This isn't about how good the team currently is, it's about how well put together the organization is now, with not only McDermott and Beane, but also the Pegulas.

 

There are a number of cliches that could be used, but simply put, everyone appears to be working in the same direction, and there are no dramas (atm - fingers crossed).

 

Mistakes undoubtedly have been made, especially the QB fiasco early last season, but even that was eventually sorted, and we are in a decent position going forward.

 

Ownership has invested in state of the art medical and training facilities for the players.

 

We have seemingly drafted pretty well, although you honestly can't realistically grade the drafts for a year or two more, and our cap situation is very solid for the future.

 

Areas that weren't working, be it players or personnel, get addressed. Not all will ultimately work out, but the early signs are that moves made with the coaching staff and free agency, have resulted in a significant uptick on offense and special teams - both of which were weak to bad areas of the team.

 

And again - no dramas.

 

There's a plan in place, to which we aren't entirly privy, yet it is there, and it's being carried out. Various parts of it we may not agree with, or even like, but it's happening.

 

 

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Buddo said:

I've only read some of the replies here, but it does seem as though many people have 'missed the point'.

 

This isn't about how good the team currently is, it's about how well put together the organization is now, with not only McDermott and Beane, but also the Pegulas.

 

There are a number of cliches that could be used, but simply put, everyone appears to be working in the same direction, and there are no dramas (atm - fingers crossed).

 

Mistakes undoubtedly have been made, especially the QB fiasco early last season, but even that was eventually sorted, and we are in a decent position going forward.

 

Ownership has invested in state of the art medical and training facilities for the players.

 

We have seemingly drafted pretty well, although you honestly can't realistically grade the drafts for a year or two more, and our cap situation is very solid for the future.

 

Areas that weren't working, be it players or personnel, get addressed. Not all will ultimately work out, but the early signs are that moves made with the coaching staff and free agency, have resulted in a significant uptick on offense and special teams - both of which were weak to bad areas of the team.

 

And again - no dramas.

 

There's a plan in place, to which we aren't entirly privy, yet it is there, and it's being carried out. Various parts of it we may not agree with, or even like, but it's happening.

 

 

Thanks. You may have just said what I was thinking better than I was able to say it.

[The Dean]

7 hours ago, mattynh said:

Pump the brakes man.......your perceptions of a competent team could change by 4PM Sunday.  Not saying it will or I expect it to or anything but two games against bad teams with new coaches has the opportunity to be misleading.

 

 

So you are suggesting one loss/bad game means the team isn't competent? 

[foreboding]

10 hours ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

 So are you saying that McD is not admitting or growing from his mistakes? 

No, it is precisely what they are doing.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

I've posted 11,000 less times than you on this forum and have 1,500 more "likes". I'm not usually one to play the popularity game, but if you're going to act like more people around here think the way you do than the way I do, well...the numbers don't back that up.

 

 

Man you took a Shareece Wright-esque $900 uber ride around the discussion of the perception of the Bills around the league in early 2018 to toot your own horn about your popularity!

 

 So humble.

 

I gotta' give you a like for that!

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Buddo said:

I've only read some of the replies here, but it does seem as though many people have 'missed the point'.

 

This isn't about how good the team currently is, it's about how well put together the organization is now, with not only McDermott and Beane, but also the Pegulas.

 

There are a number of cliches that could be used, but simply put, everyone appears to be working in the same direction, and there are no dramas (atm - fingers crossed).

 

Mistakes undoubtedly have been made, especially the QB fiasco early last season, but even that was eventually sorted, and we are in a decent position going forward.

 

Ownership has invested in state of the art medical and training facilities for the players.

 

We have seemingly drafted pretty well, although you honestly can't realistically grade the drafts for a year or two more, and our cap situation is very solid for the future.

 

Areas that weren't working, be it players or personnel, get addressed. Not all will ultimately work out, but the early signs are that moves made with the coaching staff and free agency, have resulted in a significant uptick on offense and special teams - both of which were weak to bad areas of the team.

 

And again - no dramas.

 

There's a plan in place, to which we aren't entirly privy, yet it is there, and it's being carried out. Various parts of it we may not agree with, or even like, but it's happening.

 

 

 

 

 

And that is very different than what the OP was saying..........

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

44 minutes ago, foreboding said:

No, it is precisely what they are doing.

 

 

@Seoulofstone might have gotten into the rice wine.........little disoriented........or maybe it's whatever @The Dean is drinking in his conversation with @mattynh.............some high quality discussion when every response is a straw man or an intentional misrepresentation.

 

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Owning mistakes is not something that Gase is inclined to do..............contrary to some belief around here McBeane have made egregious errors.........but they've admitted them and even apologized to the locker room in the case of Peterman and that gives players at least a sense that things CAN get better and makes them less inclined to quit when faced with adversity,  IMO.    That's a time buyer for a regime.     That's where Gase is really in trouble, IMO.    Chan Gailey was kind of a passive aggressive blamer of players and that really hurt him here(all of his stops, IMO)..........Gase is willing to flat out point fingers.    That does nobody any good.

 

McD is at the point where it's important to have a game where they actually challenge the Patriots though.......where he isn't out game planned and out game day'd...........because there really is no excuse for the manner in which they've played in 4 games against a divisional opponent.    Even Bowles and Gase have had games where they either won or had the Pats on the ropes. 

 

 

 

Gase could have the greatest offensive schemes known to man (Newsflash - he doesn't) and he would still be a bad Head Coach because he doesn't have the personality required for the job. I said it about him within about 4 weeks of seeing him in his first HC gig in Miami. I maintained it even when they had the slightly flukey playoff season, and when his tenure went south and it applies just the same now. I still don't quite know what sort of hiring process the Jets could have run to end up saying "yea, this is our guy." There are at least half a dozen coordinators out there working in the NFL who I would have hired before him without even getting into other retreads or college coaches. 

[Nelius]

OP has a point. The difference is obvious. There's "oh man maybe we're still a couple of players away from being ready" and total Gase-level incompetence. This team is 100% not the latter, but they clearly were for years. It took forever but it feels like some corner has been turned.

[Shaw66]

On 9/17/2019 at 12:25 PM, Logic said:

Looking around the NFL, I see stunning amounts of front office and team building incompetence. 

The Jets letting a Pro Bowl kicker go despite having plenty of money to sign them, then losing a game due to bad kicking and already being on the FOURTH kicker of the season by week 3. Also not putting good protection in front of Darnold and having to talk Ryan Kalil out of retirement. They also paid infinity dollars to an off-ball linebacker and a running back and a corner that they just benched.

The Browns ALSO failing to put good protection in front of Baker Mayfield, who now looks like he may be pulverized into dust before he can set the league on fire.

The Giants just...well...there's too much to even list.

The Dolphins tanking in such an obvious way that even good, young, recently drafted players like Minkah Fitzpatrick want out. 

There has always been this level of incompetence in the NFL, of course. The difference now is that, for years, the Bills were near the top of the "stumbling, bumbling" incompetence list. As a fan of the Bills, I never really had room to talk about OTHER teams' bad decisions. Now? I sit back, confident in the fact that my favorite team finally has stability, a GM and head coach that are on the same page, and a clear direction. I look at the awesome offensive line that this front office has built for Josh Allen, the targets they've gotten him, the purposeful building of the defense, the smart free agency spending, the culture...just about everything. I'm not used to looking at chaos and stupidity around the league and thinking "not MY team". This is new. 

I could get used to this.

Logic, I had to resurrect this.  

 

I was watching Titans-Jags, and they just LOOKED different from the Bills.  Granted, Mariota was in trouble most of the night, because his protection looked like the Bills' pass protection last season.   And both teams were playing some quality, attacking defense.  But it looked different. 

 

Eventually, I realized that the difference is that the Bills EXECUTE, all of them EXECUTE, on every play.  The Titans and Jags had too many plays where they just flat out blew their assignments - dropped passes, poorly thrown passes, missed tackles.   Often, the success they had was based some really good athlete  making a really good play, but then it was followed by a really good athlete missing an ordinary play.   The Bills don't miss many ordinary plays.   The Jags and Titans often had looks of frustration on their faces, frustration that something didn't work.   The Bills rarely look frustrated, just determined.  

 

I think the Bills are fundamentally different from a lot of other teams, not just the bottom five or eight.   They're working in a culture where everyone executes, and as the talent improves, the quality of the play will improve.   

 

It's exciting.  

[Richard Noggin]

To piggyback off Logic and Shaw, in particular, when watching and discussing preseason this year, I kept boiling it down to: the Bills were better than their competition. In all four (meaningless) games, the Bills were better enough to win. Same with the first two weeks of this regular season: barely better enough + much better = 2-0. 

 

They look like a solid team this season. Nay, a solid FRANCHISE. They look competently assembled, schemed, and executed. It's refreshing. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

To piggyback off Logic and Shaw, in particular, when watching and discussing preseason this year, I kept boiling it down to: the Bills were better than their competition. In all four (meaningless) games, the Bills were better enough to win. Same with the first two weeks of this regular season: barely better enough + much better = 2-0. 

 

They look like a solid team this season. Nay, a solid FRANCHISE. They look competently assembled, schemed, and executed. It's refreshing. 

It's more than refreshing.   It's an unusual feeling for a Bills fan.  It's energizing.  It's like we're on another planet. 

[Happy]

We're off to a good start, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  A solid victory over Cincy and at least playing NE aggressively (while not getting blown out) will go a long way to determining that this team should be taken seriously, both the rest of the season and in the playoffs.

[Shaw66]

17 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

We're off to a good start, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  A solid victory over Cincy and at least playing NE aggressively (while not getting blown out) will go a long way to determining that this team should be taken seriously, both the rest of the season and in the playoffs.

I will say what I've said often the last few months:  I'm not saying this team is going to win 12 games this, go deep into the playoffs, or anything like that.   I've said for a year or more that 2020 looks like the year this team will be really good.   If it comes a year early, great, but I doubt it. 

 

What I'm saying is that everything about this team is different.   I can see how they're building.  I can see what they're teaching.  And I can see it working.   Rookies are contributing from the very first game.  The team has confidence.  The quarterback is settled and centered.  It isn't a bunch of players; it's a team.   In fact, it's a machine, with interchangeable parts.   One part breaks, go to the shelf and put in another one.   

 

That's why I say they look different from Tennessee and Jacksonville.   They look and play and have confidence like the Patriots.   They are different in every way.   Good different. 

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I will say what I've said often the last few months:  I'm not saying this team is going to win 12 games this, go deep into the playoffs, or anything like that.   I've said for a year or more that 2020 looks like the year this team will be really good.   If it comes a year early, great, but I doubt it. 

 

What I'm saying is that everything about this team is different.   I can see how they're building.  I can see what they're teaching.  And I can see it working.   Rookies are contributing from the very first game.  The team has confidence.  The quarterback is settled and centered.  It isn't a bunch of players; it's a team.   In fact, it's a machine, with interchangeable parts.   One part breaks, go to the shelf and put in another one.   

 

That's why I say they look different from Tennessee and Jacksonville.   They look and play and have confidence like the Patriots.   They are different in every way.   Good different. 

 

This is a fair and rational take.

What I want to see is that McD has learned how to be an NFL HC, in particular will he modify his defensive game plan based on who the opponent is rather than run the same scheme week after week.  You say the team has the confidence of the Patriots (maybe so), but they need the adaptability of the Patriots, especially on defense.  Belichick doesn't have a standard scheme, but modifies what he does based on the opponent; I've heard this from a Pats defensive player during a TV segment on that team.  I want McD and Frazier to do this, as well as not take their foot off the gas pedal; if they're up by 14, great, now go up by 21.  I hope I'm not asking/expecting too much.

[Ralonzo]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's more than refreshing.   It's an unusual feeling for a Bills fan.  It's energizing.  It's like we're on another planet. 

 

Gotta assume with that nick/avatar you've been watching for as long or longer than me but that struck me too. It's like we're watching an actual NFL franchise again for the first time in a long time and I'm not sure how to react.

[Richard Noggin]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's more than refreshing.   It's an unusual feeling for a Bills fan.  It's energizing.  It's like we're on another planet. 

The operative question becomes: does this unusual feeling meet with doubts and cynicism at its outer reaches? 

 

For me? No. I'm fine enjoying the ride and analyzing what I see each week WITHOUT taking that toxic ride to self-preservation town. 

 

I was in 7th-10th grades for the Bills Superbowl debacles, and we were a devout family. But I've experienced enough in my 41 years (I know fans like you, Shaw, have seen much more) to know that none of this matters if it ain't fun. 

 

And I'm having fun this year. Who's with me?

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Gotta assume with that nick/avatar you've been watching for as long or longer than me but that struck me too. It's like we're watching an actual NFL franchise again for the first time in a long time and I'm not sure how to react.

Yeah, a long time.  When I posted yesterday, in my mind I was comparing what's happening now to the Kelly era, and it's different.  They were really talented, loosey goosey.    But your post made me realize that this team has something of the feel of 63-64-65.   In 63 it was coming together, but the team wasn't good yet.   There were things about it, especially the defense, that were interesting, but it didn't feel like they could compete with the Chargers and the Oilers.   Then in 64 they began winning consistently, dominating some teams, finding ways to win other games.   In the championship game, they were big underdogs to the Chargers (just like the Pats were to the Rams in their first Super Bowl), and that's when the totality of their power became apparent.  65 there was this feeling that nobody could beat them.  

 

This team isn't exactly the same, but it has the same feeling of being built right and growing into something special.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

The operative question becomes: does this unusual feeling meet with doubts and cynicism at its outer reaches? 

 

For me? No. I'm fine enjoying the ride and analyzing what I see each week WITHOUT taking that toxic ride to self-preservation town. 

 

I was in 7th-10th grades for the Bills Superbowl debacles, and we were a devout family. But I've experienced enough in my 41 years (I know fans like you, Shaw, have seen much more) to know that none of this matters if it ain't fun. 

 

And I'm having fun this year. Who's with me?

 

 

Me! Let's go!

[Shaw66]

13 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This is a fair and rational take.

What I want to see is that McD has learned how to be an NFL HC, in particular will he modify his defensive game plan based on who the opponent is rather than run the same scheme week after week.  You say the team has the confidence of the Patriots (maybe so), but they need the adaptability of the Patriots, especially on defense.  Belichick doesn't have a standard scheme, but modifies what he does based on the opponent; I've heard this from a Pats defensive player during a TV segment on that team.  I want McD and Frazier to do this, as well as not take their foot off the gas pedal; if they're up by 14, great, now go up by 21.  I hope I'm not asking/expecting too much.

Well, I keep saying, EVERYONE on this team is expected to grow.   McDermott isn't nearly as good a head coach today as he will be five years from now, because the process is designed to keep improving HIM just like everyone else.   I'm sure Belichick will tell you he's a better head coach now than he was when he won his first Super Bowl.   

 

So I'm expecting that McDermott will make mistakes this season, some we will see and some we won't even recognize as mistakes.   What's so cool about McD and his process is that those mistakes will be identified within the organization and McD will work to correct them.   

 

 

I'll be on the road to Buffalo in ten minutes.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited September 21, 2019 by Shaw66