zow2 Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Fun mid week debate but let’s revisit this after 5 full seasons. Then we can declare who is better than who.
mjt328 Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said: Gents, there’s a long way to go to hash out this 2018 QB class. They’re all going to have some ups and downs from week to week, but there’s one thing that is pretty clear. If anyone truly believed Allen would be capable of developing an accurate short to mid range game he would’ve been the top pick. His physical ability is far and away superior to any of these other guys, but we were all told he would be air mailing balls into the hospitality tent a la EJ on a regular basis. He’s not completely there just yet, but it sure looks like he’s getting drastically better at things that all the draftniks and analytics folks mocked him for. If he proves to be able to continue hitting these efficient type passes underneath, while still being able to run around and throw lasers all over the field, he’s not really going to have any limitations. The ceiling for this guy appears to be absurd... and the floor seems to be ticking up a little more every week. At this point we’re all just waiting to see if he hits his ceiling and how quickly he gets there. If he gets there while this defense is still in tact, we may not just be battling for a wildcard. This 100x. We are 13 starts into Josh Allen's career. Baker Mayfield has 15. Sam Darnold has 14. Josh Rosen also has 13. Lamar Jackson has 9. All of these guys have lots of room to grow, and any of them could see setbacks once defenses catch on to their tendencies. The interesting thing is... so far in 2019, it seems that Allen and Jackson have shown the most growth and improvement. They were the guys who supposedly had the most overall potential, but many critics didn't believe they could become efficient passers. 3
MDH Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) The talk of Mayfield peaking already is ridiculous. Of course he’s not a finished product yet. That said, I could see this team struggling in the next 5 weeks and getting on each other in the press. Upcoming schedule: Rams, Ravens, Niners, Seahawks and Patriots. That could be a recipe for a 2-5 record and some great Baker interviews where he’s all testy. Edited September 17, 2019 by MDH 2
McBean Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 It really is incredible how bad the media hates Josh Allen. It’s like Allen did something to all of them that we don’t know about. It’s all I can think of because I don’t know why so much negative sentiment towards the guy. Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott posted good numbers against terrible teams. Don’t matter though! They’re great! Allen looks like Montana first half against the Giants and could’ve thrown for 400+...the media? “Well, it’s because they played the Giants!” I’m sick of the BS. 2
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 I will root for both guys. Bills and Browns are kindred spirits— both franchises need some good luck at QB.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: I don’t know who the better WB will be but I am glad we have who we do. ...yup...just my personal preference, but I like Allen's humility, respect for the game, diligent work ethic and "WE" versus "ME" attitude......quote was, "OUR team and OUR family"....kid is never seeking the ME spotlight.......... 1
Royale with Cheese Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I will root for both guys. Bills and Browns are kindred spirits— both franchises need some good luck at QB. No...just the Bills. I want the Browns to fail. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, McBean said: It really is incredible how bad the media hates Josh Allen. It’s like Allen did something to all of them that we don’t know about. It’s all I can think of because I don’t know why so much negative sentiment towards the guy. Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott posted good numbers against terrible teams. Don’t matter though! They’re great! Allen looks like Montana first half against the Giants and could’ve thrown for 400+...the media? “Well, it’s because they played the Giants!” I’m sick of the BS. Offensive tweets not conforming to the appropriate wokeness level, and a desperate need for pre-draft "analytics" to be right. 2
YoloinOhio Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Mayfield looks confused on every single play this year.
ghostwriter Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/218336-how-would-you-rank-the-qbs-of-the-2018-nfl-draft-today-in-hindsight/#comments
Royale with Cheese Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Mayfield is extremely accurate on a lot of throws though so he's still dangerous. But he does make a lot of bonehead plays too. Maybe Palmer's statement that Mayfield always had wide open WR's at Oklahoma is starting to show....
Ta111 Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Mayfield is extremely accurate on a lot of throws though so he's still dangerous. But he does make a lot of bonehead plays too. Maybe Palmer's statement that Mayfield always had wide open WR's at Oklahoma is starting to show.... But you have to admit he was missing wide open receivers all over the field yesterday.
Royale with Cheese Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ta111 said: But you have to admit he was missing wide open receivers all over the field yesterday. He was...he didn't look good overall yesterday. But there was some really good throws too....a lot of 3rd and long conversions. He still has that playmaking ability.
Mr. WEO Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 10 hours ago, cage said: I watched most of the Browns/Jets game tonight and this is the first time I saw Baker Mayfield outside of highlight clips. Color me unimpressed. I'll have to watch a bit more of him, He played last year too, check it out...
SCBills Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I will root for both guys. Bills and Browns are kindred spirits— both franchises need some good luck at QB. Browns are potential wild card contenders so I will definitely not be rooting for them. They are also the most unlikable group of people ever assembled outside of New England.
cage Posted September 17, 2019 Author Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said: So one game and you've made ya mind up? What would you say if a Cleveland fan had only watched Josh Allen's game against Green Bay last year or only saw quarters 2 and 3 of the Jest game? We're in year 2, so we're not talking about one of his first few starts anymore. That's not a relevant comparison Edited September 17, 2019 by cage
SCBills Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, fergie's ire said: I agree. I did not see much of his play against Tennessee, but I did notice last night that the Jets seemed to be making a concerted effort to get their arms up in front of him. Even on roll outs, they would stay in front of him and try and deflect his throws. I wonder if that is a strategy against him....and I wonder if height might start to be a factor. This. Baker is accurate on throws where he has a clean pocket or when he rolls out and has clear vision. Brees is able to kill it with his elongated drop-backs and precision up/down accuracy, but as others have pointed out, that's the exception to the rule with short QB's. With them neglecting their OL, it will be interesting to see if more teams flood the passing lanes with hands up pass rush/contain. Then, how does Baker adjust.
Wayne Cubed Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, cage said: We're in year 2, so we're not talking about one of his first few starts anymore. That's not a relevant comparison You watched one game... why does the year you watch it in matter? So if you caught only one of Brady's bad games, you going to make a conclusion about? How about Mahomes, any verdict on him yet?
cage Posted September 17, 2019 Author Posted September 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: You watched one game... why does the year you watch it in matter? So if you caught only one of Brady's bad games, you going to make a conclusion about? How about Mahomes, any verdict on him yet? For my part, I started this thread primarily from being shocked as to how bad Mayfield looked having never seen him play. I don't watch much college football, so I get most of my draft opinions from articles, video clips, mocks and this forum leading up the draft. I had never seen him play before and am not planning to do extensive study on Mayfield. I don't dislike him and want to see the Browns do well against anyone other than the Bills. However, when I see all the articles on Mayfield (and Allen), I was expecting far more from him. I recognize this is a single point-in-time reaction to what I saw and that the verdict on 2018 QBs will play out over the next several seasons. However, as they're not rookies anymore, the contrast between the two THIS SEASON is stark.
Buffalo Junction Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, cage said: For my part, I started this thread primarily from being shocked as to how bad Mayfield looked having never seen him play. I don't watch much college football, so I get most of my draft opinions from articles, video clips, mocks and this forum leading up the draft. I had never seen him play before and am not planning to do extensive study on Mayfield. I don't dislike him and want to see the Browns do well against anyone other than the Bills. However, when I see all the articles on Mayfield (and Allen), I was expecting far more from him. I recognize this is a single point-in-time reaction to what I saw and that the verdict on 2018 QBs will play out over the next several seasons. However, as they're not rookies anymore, the contrast between the two THIS SEASON is stark. A few others commented on this... but... Gregg Williams. His defenses generally do well against young QBs. Plus, he had a full year to learn Mayfield’s limitations and all of Kitchens tendencies. We can say what we want about Greggo, but he’s likely had this game circled on the calendar since the schedule was released. As for who the best QBs from the class are. I’m waiting till after year three to make a judgement. I love Allen. We’ll see if the Jackson/Roman offense gets figured out. Darnold is cuckolded by Gase. I can’t foresee Mayfield being a full bust. Rosen though.... I think Rosen will be the big bust unless something changes dramatically.
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