KD in CA Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, dneveu said: I mean - it comes down to the player and development. I think a stronger o-line and run game is beneficial to a young QB and you're seeing that with someone like Prescott. Houston's trade to help watson also comes to mind. Wentz and Goff improved with improved line play. Yes, absolutely. Which is why the Bills offseason plan to get Josh some competent players around him was so important. But the risk of a bust with a guy like Haskins is so high because you've seen him play what, 3 real games of football in his whole college career? People get blinded by six TD games against Indiana or whoever, but those are the games that should be thrown out the window entirely. See also: Cardale Jones, Aaron Maybin and Da'Rick Rogers; other one year wonders who had most of their stats against vastly overmatched opponents. 35 minutes ago, dneveu said: I can't fathom how this guy is always overlooked as one of the best in the league. It's hard to put people in any specific order but it almost has to be mahomes rodgers and wilson right? Brady and Brees are right there but when it comes down to it they are both in their 40s. Still amazing QBs, still 2 guys you would never want to face - but they were better in years past. The seahawks defense was like dismantled last year had everyone predicting them going 4-12 and they won 10 games. Wilson has never missed a game. Has great numbers.. plays his best football in the 4th quarter.. Has almost 4000 yards rushing and another 20 TDs on the ground. Guy's a baller. And he's really fun to watch. Wilson is absolutely one of the best players in football.
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, KD in CA said: I'm always suspicious of these guys that played one year in college for these big time programs. At least half those games are blowouts against vastly overrated opponents (probably 75% if you're Haskins at OSU) so these guys just haven't played enough real, competitive football. It doesn't mean they won't develop, but seems pretty high risk compared to a guy like Daniel Jones who was a 3 year starter on a team that played mostly solid competition and wasn't steamrolling anyone. Haskins had a horrible defense and poor running game so he actually was in mostly close games last year, even though they should have been blowouts comparing the teams on paper. They ended up 13-1 but were probably a 8-9 win team at best without Haskins Edited October 8, 2019 by YoloinOhio
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: "Baker is just a sober Johnny Manziel." Ah, where to begin? He started off by criticizing his former coach, then injected himself into a teammate's contract/trade demands and currently has a tiff going on with Rex Ryan. Baker doesn't have the mental makeup of a successful QB. To top it off, he struggles to make reads fron the pocket. Steve Young is 100% right when he speaks about Mayfield. Less bravado and focus on your craft. The QB position is hard enough by itself, why add more stress to the position? Idiot. Kyler is adjusting fine, from what I can tell. His play has been solid for a first year guy. Kyler is a different player than Baker. Same college scheme but Kyler is much more athletic and that allows him to adjust in ways that Baker cannot. I always thought Baker was a more accurate passer than Kyler but Baker is so inaccurate now. Worst completion % in the league which i know doesn’t tell the whole story but he also leads in INTs
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: Kyler is a different player than Baker. Same college scheme but Kyler is much more athletic and that allows him to adjust in ways that Baker cannot. I always thought Baker was a more accurate passer than Kyler but Baker is so inaccurate now. Worst completion % in the league which i know doesn’t tell the whole story but he also leads in INTs And yet, doesn't take a quarter of the roasting that Allen does. Wonder why? 1
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Haskins had a horrible defense and poor running game so he actually was in mostly close games last year, even though they should have been blowouts comparing the teams on paper. They ended up 13-1 but were probably a 8-9 win team at best without Haskins Haskins doesn't have the support system that other rookie QBs have had... the coaching staff clearly was in turmoil and it showed. Haskins cannot help he got placed into an undesirable situation, much like Darnold and Rosen.
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: And yet, doesn't take a quarter of the roasting that Allen does. Wonder why? He’s starting to 1 minute ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: Haskins doesn't have the support system that other rookie QBs have had... the coaching staff clearly was in turmoil and it showed. Haskins cannot help he got placed into an undesirable situation, much like Darnold and Rosen. I’m not surprised Haskins needs more time given his limited experience in college. But it is literally their job to get him ready. And they are trying to blame it on him with this leaked BS about him not understanding things. Anyone who followed Haskins at all knows he’s intelligent and was running an offense at Ohio state designed by a former nfl QB coach. Everything coming out of Redskins park makes them look incompetent and foolish.
Mrbojanglezs Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: And yet, doesn't take a quarter of the roasting that Allen does. Wonder why? because it doesn't support the analytics community's biases. they use college production to predict NFL production. Mayfield was productive in college in a big-time program and Allen was a nobody, nobody school with no record of production. So Mayfield gets more benefit of the doubt 1
Ta111 Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: because it doesn't support the analytics community's biases. they use college production to predict NFL production. Mayfield was productive in college in a big-time program and Allen was a nobody, nobody school with no record of production. So Mayfield gets more benefit of the doubt Which now shows you how silly their biases are.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 ....not surprising.......... Richard Sherman annoyed at Baker Mayfield’s handshake snub Posted by Darin Gantt on October 8, 2019, 6:12 AM EDT Richard Sherman was annoyed with Baker Mayfield before the game even started. In fact, it was the Browns quarterback’s refusal to shake hands during the pregame coin toss that had the 49ers corner on edge. “What’s amazing, and annoying, was him not shaking hands at the beginning,” Sherman told Mike Silver of NFL.com. “That’s some college s—. It’s ridiculous. We’re all trying to get psyched up, but shaking hands with your opponent — that’s NFL etiquette. And when you pull bush league stuff, that’s disrespectful to the game. And believe me, that’s gonna get us fired up.” Apparently it did, as Sherman picked off Mayfield two minutes into the game. Sherman wasn’t the only one to take a shot at Mayfield on a miserable night, as Nick Bosa clowned his college-era flag-waving celebration. Sherman said it was particularly offensive for a young player to not participate in the perfunctory ritual. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/08/richard-sherman-annoyed-at-baker-mayfields-handshake-snub/
Mat68 Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 Imo, Allen is completely under rated. I know PFF wants to make Bill's fans seem delusional for saying this. Allen is being taught the position. They are giving him field reads, I dont see alot of scripted 1 read throws this year. Through 15 games hes got more wins then losses. 4 comeback wins, 5 game winning drives.
Rochesterfan Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 Look - I am not going to try and equate anything we currently see with long term success. You saw some of the traits last year that you are seeing this year from Mayfield, but it was all done under a cover of anonymity. The Browns were coming off a winless season and although very talented they showed very little cohesion. Baker became a de facto on field leader and Greg Williams (uggh) got the team prepared and they won games. The hiring of Kitchens to placate Baker and then the bringing in of offensive and defensive talent ramped up the pressure, but ultimately has lead to the team being a train wreck from a coaching and leadership standpoint. Baker has taken a major step back, but by the end of the season - his numbers will end up fine - they may even win the division and make the playoffs, but right now I doubt it. The issue I would have is the lack of progress shown. He looks less prepared and less able to handle the pressure than he did as a rookie. Allen on the other hand has shown progression and growth and has come a long way to show true leadership under high pressure situations. Baker was significantly better than Allen last year, but has regressed and is now behind Allen. Allen had a long way to go, but has passed Baker at this point and time, but the important question is future development. Can Allen continue to grow and does Baker return to his 2018 form. The future for both players is yet to be written and I am not willing to say one is going to be better based on small snippets of the season.
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, Rochesterfan said: Look - I am not going to try and equate anything we currently see with long term success. You saw some of the traits last year that you are seeing this year from Mayfield, but it was all done under a cover of anonymity. The Browns were coming off a winless season and although very talented they showed very little cohesion. Baker became a de facto on field leader and Greg Williams (uggh) got the team prepared and they won games. The hiring of Kitchens to placate Baker and then the bringing in of offensive and defensive talent ramped up the pressure, but ultimately has lead to the team being a train wreck from a coaching and leadership standpoint. Baker has taken a major step back, but by the end of the season - his numbers will end up fine - they may even win the division and make the playoffs, but right now I doubt it. The issue I would have is the lack of progress shown. He looks less prepared and less able to handle the pressure than he did as a rookie. Allen on the other hand has shown progression and growth and has come a long way to show true leadership under high pressure situations. Baker was significantly better than Allen last year, but has regressed and is now behind Allen. Allen had a long way to go, but has passed Baker at this point and time, but the important question is future development. Can Allen continue to grow and does Baker return to his 2018 form. The future for both players is yet to be written and I am not willing to say one is going to be better based on small snippets of the season. Mayfield had good numbers last year overall but performed poorly against good defenses. It wasn’t all great but that got overlooked among all the offseason hype.
Buffalo716 Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I thought a guy here who knew a guy said this year in Cle Baker has not been putting in the time Maybe he let the shirtless car ads with the Tiger and "At Home with Baker Mayfield" go to his head Possible but it's still asinine to question bakers work ethic in the past He walked on at Oklahoma and Tech, you need to be a hard ass worker to walk on at a D1 school Everybody loves Levi cus he walked on at bama and thinks he has to have a amazing work ethic . Baker did that playing QB and won the Heisman Edited October 8, 2019 by Buffalo716 1
Gugny Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Im dying Could easily put Flutie's face there, too. And after last night ... Peterman's.
NickelCity Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 4 hours ago, dneveu said: I can't fathom how this guy is always overlooked as one of the best in the league. It's hard to put people in any specific order but it almost has to be mahomes rodgers and wilson right? Brady and Brees are right there but when it comes down to it they are both in their 40s. Still amazing QBs, still 2 guys you would never want to face - but they were better in years past. The seahawks defense was like dismantled last year had everyone predicting them going 4-12 and they won 10 games. Wilson has never missed a game. Has great numbers.. plays his best football in the 4th quarter.. Has almost 4000 yards rushing and another 20 TDs on the ground. Guy's a baller. Wilson is unreal. Phenomenal quarterback.
Freddie's Dead Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....not surprising.......... Richard Sherman annoyed at Baker Mayfield’s handshake snub Posted by Darin Gantt on October 8, 2019, 6:12 AM EDT Richard Sherman was annoyed with Baker Mayfield before the game even started. In fact, it was the Browns quarterback’s refusal to shake hands during the pregame coin toss that had the 49ers corner on edge. “What’s amazing, and annoying, was him not shaking hands at the beginning,” Sherman told Mike Silver of NFL.com. “That’s some college s—. It’s ridiculous. We’re all trying to get psyched up, but shaking hands with your opponent — that’s NFL etiquette. And when you pull bush league stuff, that’s disrespectful to the game. And believe me, that’s gonna get us fired up.” Apparently it did, as Sherman picked off Mayfield two minutes into the game. Sherman wasn’t the only one to take a shot at Mayfield on a miserable night, as Nick Bosa clowned his college-era flag-waving celebration. Sherman said it was particularly offensive for a young player to not participate in the perfunctory ritual. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/08/richard-sherman-annoyed-at-baker-mayfields-handshake-snub/ Sherman arguing about bush league is priceless! 1
PolishDave Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Look - I am not going to try and equate anything we currently see with long term success. You saw some of the traits last year that you are seeing this year from Mayfield, but it was all done under a cover of anonymity. The Browns were coming off a winless season and although very talented they showed very little cohesion. Baker became a de facto on field leader and Greg Williams (uggh) got the team prepared and they won games. The hiring of Kitchens to placate Baker and then the bringing in of offensive and defensive talent ramped up the pressure, but ultimately has lead to the team being a train wreck from a coaching and leadership standpoint. Baker has taken a major step back, but by the end of the season - his numbers will end up fine - they may even win the division and make the playoffs, but right now I doubt it. The issue I would have is the lack of progress shown. He looks less prepared and less able to handle the pressure than he did as a rookie. Allen on the other hand has shown progression and growth and has come a long way to show true leadership under high pressure situations. Baker was significantly better than Allen last year, but has regressed and is now behind Allen. Allen had a long way to go, but has passed Baker at this point and time, but the important question is future development. Can Allen continue to grow and does Baker return to his 2018 form. The future for both players is yet to be written and I am not willing to say one is going to be better based on small snippets of the season. Good take. Mayfield does not look good under pressure - at least not the games I have watched him in - including last night. Most quarterbacks aren't great under pressure. Allen spent a lot of his time in college under pressure and has a lot more experience in those situations. I think that experience helps him in the pros. Both guys have the potential to be outstanding quarterbacks if given enough time to develop behind good offensive lines. If either one is stuck behind a rotten offensive line or stuck with an offensive coordinator who sucks, then I think either has the potential to end up as a backup. Fortunately for us, it appears the Bills have found a decent up and coming offensive coordinator and also upgraded player talent on the offensive line. If they upgrade the talent on the offensive line by the same amount next year without regressing elsewhere, this team could finally become dominant.
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